Hollinger Chat- regarding Suns and Payton

[fordronken]

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=8979

Noah (Santa Monica, CA): The Arizona Republic reported discussions between the Suns and Gary Payton. Do you know what's going on with that?

SportsNation John Hollinger: (4:27 PM ET ) For Phoenix to do that it would have to be a sign-and-trade involving the trade exception they'll get from the Johnson deal. I wouldn't do it if I were them. That exception could get a better player at the trade deadline if they're patient.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Someone should bring up that they don't have to give the full TE to him, it can be broken up.

Also, I don't see why everyone thinks it is impossible that he gets the Minimum. No one has even thought about giving him the MLE this year, and I can't imagine he would go to a lesser team for the LLE when the min. is waiting for him. The difference is only 700k....

 

[myrondizzo]

he's 37 years old i doubt we give him more than the vet min. if we did id be upset.

 

[cly2tw]

Also, Celitcs are over the cap and don't have Payton's Bird rights. They can only sign him to 120% of his previous salary at most anyway, for the purpose of S&T.

 

[Folster]

If we give up a draft pick, specifically a first rounder for Payton, I'll puke.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

If we give up a draft pick, specifically a first rounder for Payton, I'll puke.

If the Celtics get anything for Payton they will be happy. A second rounder would be more than enough.

I still don't see why it is so out of the question that he can sign for the min.

 

[Folster]

I am just cautious about all the "age" the Suns are aquiring lately. I'd rather have a young player behind Nash than a declining Payton. There has got to be a decent pg from europe or nbdl out there that can make the roster. Someone like a Frank Johnson or an Elliot Perry. That is all we need, not a Payton.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ok, here is the skinny on Payton.

1. The Celtics do not have bird rights on Payton. When he was traded to Atlanta and then waived, ALL teams lost Bird rights to him.

2. While the Celtics have some of their MLE left (between 2 and 2.5 million) the CBA does not allow for S&T's with the mle. So Boston could not use it to deal Payton to the Suns even if they wanted to.

3. Last year, Payton was re-signed with Boston, after the Atlanta trade, not for the minimum, but using a leftover portion of Bostons mle, no one knows for sure how much. It was probably about 1.2 million.

4. So, the most Boston could muster, to do a S&T is 120% of last year's deal (1.44 million or so).

5. Boston might be willing to comply with Gary's wishes to do a S&T this way. They would end up with a TE in the 1.4-1.5 million range. I would imagine that Ainge would also try to squeeze a second round pick out of it somehow. But a 1.4 to 1.5 million TE could come in handy either in trying to make a deal work later, or becoming a 3rd team facilitator in a deal.

In any case, there is no way we could use up more than 1.5 million or so of our TE in getting Payton--unless Payton was paid alot more last year than we realize.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

There has got to be a decent pg from europe or nbdl out there that can make the roster. Someone like a Frank Johnson or an Elliot Perry. That is all we need, not a Payton.

If there was I am pretty sure we would have found him last year or this summer. Just like we would have found that shot blocking center

 

[Neo]

There has got to be a decent pg from europe or nbdl out there that can make the roster. Someone like a Frank Johnson or an Elliot Perry. That is all we need, not a Payton.

Like Randy Livingston!! We'll just have to make sure everyone wears knee brace when he takes the court.

 

[playstation]

i think its a good idea to try and get payton at this point. not a reactionary move, but i really think relying on barbosa/diaw at backup pg is very risky. they are very unproven. all our other positions are filled with dependable players at this point. payton could solidify our rotation at this point and give dantoni a dependable player to put in when nash is out.

i know a bunch of you guys are riding on barbosa pretty hard, but what happens when he shows up lacking confidence again? will nash again be playing 40min/gm? at this point, we don't have anyone else if barbosa can't cut it (and a good summer doesn't prove much imo).

 

[wilecoyotesupergenius]

i think its a good idea to try and get payton at this point. not a reactionary move, but i really think relying on barbosa/diaw at backup pg is very risky. they are very unproven. all our other positions are filled with dependable players at this point. payton could solidify our rotation at this point and give dantoni a dependable player to put in when nash is out.

i know a bunch of you guys are riding on barbosa pretty hard, but what happens when he shows up lacking confidence again? will nash again be playing 40min/gm? at this point, we don't have anyone else if barbosa can't cut it (and a good summer doesn't prove much imo).

I agree...it's a low risk, high reward opportunity. If Payton doesn't perform as expected...or if his attitude is a problem...he can be cut (like Cuban did with his Rodman experiment). At this stage of Payton's career however, I don't think attitude would be a problem...I'm sure he realizes his chances at getting a ring are dwindling. Payton's defensive skills faded long ago...but he is still an excellent passer...and still has excellent court vision, so should be very capable of finding the open man. 120% of last year's salary makes this a very low risk (and the conditional Voskuhl 2nd from Charlotte would probably get it done)...similar to McCarty last year.

It would be very helpful if Nash could get an occasional day off against lessor opponents (especially for back to back games)....to rest his back and keep him healthy for the only thing that really matters...the playoffs.

 

[George O'Brien]

The Suns have been telling reporters they just aren't interested in Payton. Perhaps if they lose faith in the guys they have that will change, but right now I'm inclined to believe them.

 

[wilecoyotesupergenius]

I am just cautious about all the "age" the Suns are aquiring lately. I'd rather have a young player behind Nash than a declining Payton. There has got to be a decent pg from europe or nbdl out there that can make the roster. Someone like a Frank Johnson or an Elliot Perry. That is all we need, not a Payton.

I know this has been repeated many times....but age is only a problem if the contracts are long term (like many of the contracts used for the waiver amnesty). Aging supporting players with small or short contracts are an asset...not a liability. Experience is a positive in the playoffs.

Bowen - 34
Horry - 35
Barry - 34
Duncan - 29
Finley - 32
Ginobili- 28
Parker - 23
Van Exel - 34
Mohamed - 28
Fabricio Oberto - 30
Rasho - 29

Ben Wallace - 31
Rasheed Wallace - 31
Hunter - 35
Billups - 29
McDyess - 31
Prince - 25
Hamilton - 27
Dale Davis - 36

Amare - 23
Nash - 31
Marion - 27
Raja - 29
Diaw - 23
Jim Jackson - 35
Grant - 33
KT - 33
James Jones - 25
Barbosa - 23
Thompson - 22

 

[Dr. Dumas]

Count me in as one who would like to see Payton in a Suns uniform. He can still run backup PG just fine.

It will cut down on Nash's playing time, and the offense will not suffer much. The guy can be had for dirt cheap, so it's a win win in my eyes.

 

[cardsfan13]

I agree I would also like to Payton in a suns uniform just so he can back up nash and he would also give us more veteran leadership. I'm still unhappy about not getting Finley but Payton would be a decent backup he can still play some nice defense and run our offense.

 

[wilecoyotesupergenius]

I agree I would also like to Payton in a suns uniform just so he can back up nash and he would also give us more veteran leadership. I'm still unhappy about not getting Finley but Payton would be a decent backup he can still play some nice defense and run our offense.

I too would like to take a gamble on Payton ...if he would accept the minimum....and be comfortable in a backup role...

...but nice defense?

(I think "the Glove" became more like the "Oven Mitt" a few seasons ago).

 

[Silverbullet]

The oven mit can still run our offence for 20m a night. I would take him on the cheap and roll the dice. Barbs and Diaw will be batteling for the back up duty and that scares me. I realy like the two young players, but I just dont think we should be experimenting at this stage. If the youngsters dont pan out nash will be logging alot more minutes and I just dont think we should gamble with that. I hope they can get him with the vet min and save the TE for a back up big or trade deadline improvements.

 

[devilalum]

The Suns can afford to wait and see.

They can let LB and maybe Diaw try to earn more minutes and if it becomes obvious that they need help they can use the exception later in the season to get a more experienced PG to help out.