Horton on Doug & Wolf

[Hypothesis]

I'm sorry, did you even watch him? There were times he was the best one on the field and is very fast. He needs some proper coaching and he will be as good Dansby.

That bolded part right there could be said about our entire defense. I felt far too often the past few years that our players were never put in the proper positions and weren't demonstrating sound fundamentals.

 

[ARodg]

I'm sorry, did you even watch him? There were times he was the best one on the field and is very fast. He needs some proper coaching and he will be as good Dansby.

I didn't watch as much as I would have liked to, but I did watch a few games. He's a piece, no question, but I hesitate to say he's a lock for a starting job next year. Now granted you probably know more than I do and if you think he's a definite keeper I'll take your word over my limited exposure.

But less than 5 tackles a game doesn't have me feeling super impressed, especially when the Cards were one of the worst run defenses in the NFL, and he's playing the position that should get the lions share of the tackles.

 

[187]

I didn't watch as much as I would have liked to, but I did watch a few games. He's a piece, no question, but I hesitate to say he's a lock for a starting job next year. Now granted you probably know more than I do and if you think he's a definite keeper I'll take your word over my limited exposure.

But less than 5 tackles a game doesn't have me feeling super impressed, especially when the Cards were one of the worst run defenses in the NFL, and he's playing the position that should get the lions share of the tackles.

I would suggest watching more games before evaluating talent based off of stats, because then you would know that DW had his starting spot taken by Gerald Hayes for 6 games (weeks 8-13). He averaged a bit less than 6 tackles per game outside of those weeks and that would have put him at around 90 tackles on the season. And Lenon's stats don't tell the whole story, I don't care if he had 125 tackles when most of them were 10 yards down the field. He had 4.5 stuffs the entire season in a starting role as did Daryl with much less playing time. The kid will be starting next season, you can bet on that. You don't give up on a rookie ILB because he didn't put up huge tackling numbers. If he started the entire year he would have put up nearly the exact same numbers dansby did in miami. We need to find a thumper to start next to him and have Lenon in a backup role, because there are reports that Hayes won't be returning and he can't stay healthy.

 

[ARodg]

I would suggest watching more games before evaluating talent based off of stats, because then you would know that DW had his starting spot taken by Gerald Hayes for 6 games (weeks 8-13). He averaged a bit less than 6 tackles per game outside of those weeks and that would have put him at around 90 tackles on the season. And Lenon's stats don't tell the whole story, I don't care if he had 125 tackles when most of them were 10 yards down the field. He had 4.5 stuffs the entire season in a starting role as did Daryl with much less playing time. The kid will be starting next season, you can bet on that. You don't give up on a rookie ILB because he didn't put up huge tackling numbers. If he started the entire year he would have put up nearly the exact same numbers dansby did in miami. We need to find a thumper to start next to him and have Lenon in a backup role, because there are reports that Hayes won't be returning and he can't stay healthy.

I deserve your scorn. I should know better than to judge players based on stats, and that it often leads to a person looking foolish.

I experienced Paris Lennon, I know how that train rolls. I figured that because Lennon is so bad that it would mean that there more tackles available for Washington, but I didn't know that he lost his starting spot.

You think he's an obvious keeper, and you know more than I do. Fair enough.

 

[Duckjake]

Well this seems to validate what some of us have been saying for the last 4 seasons that the huge ***** in CKW's armor was defense.

Having to coach the Arizona out of him!? Man what an indictment of the defensive staff in the AZ.

No wonder the Cards were consistently blowing 21-0 and 17-3 leads and giving up career passing days to guys like Vince Young.

Reminds me of when the homers kept saying that Wrong Gap Ronnie and Small Play Ray were solid LBs and one of the first things Denny Green did when he got to Arizona was comment on how surprised he was at how poor the talent was at LB.

 

[ARodg]

Well this seems to validate what some of us have been saying for the last 4 seasons that the huge ***** in CKW's armor was defense.

Having to coach the Arizona out of him!? Man what an indictment of the defensive staff in the AZ.

No wonder the Cards were consistently blowing 21-0 and 17-3 leads and giving up career passing days to guys like Vince Young.

Reminds me of when the homers kept saying that Wrong Gap Ronnie and Small Play Ray were solid LBs and one of the first things Denny Green did when he got to Arizona was comment on how surprised he was at how poor the talent was at LB.

PTS 27.1 (30th)

YDS 373.6 (29th)

PASS YDS 228.4 (23rd)

RUSH YDS 145.2 (30th)


Duh

 

[Duckjake]

PTS 27.1 (30th)

YDS 373.6 (29th)

PASS YDS 228.4 (23rd)

RUSH YDS 145.2 (30th)


Duh

Duh. McFadden wasn't playing for the Cardinals last season. So what's your point in posting last seasons numbers especially when they were tremendously influenced by horrendous QB play?

 

[ARodg]

Duh. McFadden wasn't playing for the Cardinals last season. So what's your point in posting last seasons numbers especially when they were tremendously influenced by horrendous QB play?

You said that you thought Wiz's weakness was defense.

Those are the defensive numbers.

That seems extremely relevant.

 

[Duckjake]

You said that you thought Wiz's weakness was defense.

Those are the defensive numbers.

That seems extremely relevant.

Not when we are talking about a body of work and involving a DB coach and a player who weren't even with the team last season. Anyway I've posted those numbers many times. If you would actually pay attention to the threads you would know that. And wouldn't be coming on here with your rude Duh's.

 

[ARodg]

CKW's weakness is defense. That's what you said.

The fact that the CBs are defending with horrible technique. The defense is bottom five, and the only reason the passing defense isn't worse is because teams find it so easy to run.

I would say that all of those things agree with your point, and have been previously stated. The fact that a new DC states these things doesn't mean that it's not rehashing something that's already been established.

 

[Duckjake]

CKW's weakness is defense. That's what you said.

The fact that the CBs are defending with horrible technique. The defense is bottom five, and the only reason the passing defense isn't worse is because teams find it so easy to run.

I would say that all of those things agree with your point, and have been previously stated. The fact that a new DC states these things doesn't mean that it's not rehashing something that's already been established.

Obviously you haven't been around here very long. You wouldn't have found many people knocking CKWs defenses prior to the 2009 playoffs and you would have seen many people claiming that the defense was going to be better with the departure of several players.

Even now some claim that there was nothing wrong with the defense in 2010. They were just left on the field too long by the offense or discouraged by the pitiful QB play.

You've only been on the board a few weeks. How would you know if something had been established in 2007 or 2008 or 2009????

 

[ARodg]

Obviously you haven't been around here very long. You wouldn't have found many people knocking CKWs defenses prior to the 2009 playoffs and you would have seen many people claiming that the defense was going to be better with the departure of several players.

Even now some claim that there was nothing wrong with the defense in 2010. They were just left on the field too long by the offense or discouraged by the pitiful QB play.

You've only been on the board a few weeks. How would you know if something had been established in 2007 or 2008 or 2009????

The defense was 30th in points allowed. the fact that the defense sucked better ****ing well have been established.

The fact that that number is actually inflated because the NFC West is the worst confrence in NFL history just makes it that much more pathetic.

 

[Duckjake]

The defense was 30th in points allowed. the fact that the defense sucked better ****ing well have been established.

The fact that that number is actually inflated because the NFC West is the worst confrence in NFL history just makes it that much more pathetic.

You still don't get it. I am saying that CKW's defenses have been weak EVERY year not just last season and that Horton's comments validate my take because he is talking about 2009. A season the Cards were NFC West Champions. Something I have been saying every year since CKW was hired.

Everything other than returns was bad last season. So you would say that it is well established that CKWs offensive ability is suspect as well because the offense was terrible last season? In spite of the fact that he and Warner put up phenomenal numbers from midway through the 2007 season through the playoffs in 2009?

In spite of the fact that they put up over 400 yards of offense on two of the NFL's best defenses, Pittsburgh and Green Bay, in back to back playoff seasons?

 

[ARodg]

You still don't get it. I am saying that CKW's defenses have been weak EVERY year not just last season and that Horton's comments validate my take because he is talking about 2009. A season the Cards were NFC West Champions. Something I have been saying every year since CKW was hired.

Everything other than returns was bad last season. So you would say that it is well established that CKWs offensive ability is suspect as well because the offense was terrible last season? In spite of the fact that he and Warner put up phenomenal numbers from midway through the 2007 season through the playoffs in 2009?

In spite of the fact that they put up over 400 yards of offense on two of the NFL's best defenses, Pittsburgh and Green Bay, in back to back playoff seasons?

Points Allowed
2007: 27th
2008:28th
2009:15th
2010:30th

You tell me which one doesn't belong. One average season doesn't make up for 3 horrible ones. The best season in the past 4 years was average and even in 09 the stats are affected by a flukey number of INTs.

 

[Duckjake]

Points Allowed
2007: 27th
2008:28th
2009:15th
2010:30th

You tell me which one doesn't belong. One average season doesn't make up for 3 horrible ones. The best season in the past 4 years was average and even in 09 the stats are affected by a flukey number of INTs.

You still don't get it. You are making the argument I have been making on this board for 4 years and acting like it is something new and acting like it is something I don't understand.

Newbies

 

[binkar]

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Bingo!

Then again, if the team feels that Peterson is just THAT special, they'll take him regardless of need.

No amount of technique is going to have DRC grow and pair, and tackle. That is DRC and his own battle.

Peterson can tackle, does tackle, and will tackle.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

We will know what he thinks when players are cut or not resigned.

Boosh.

Agreed with that. No cap, no penalties for cutting players equals.....buh-bye if you are not getting the job done.

 

[HeavyB3]

You still don't get it. You are making the argument I have been making on this board for 4 years and acting like it is something new and acting like it is something I don't understand.

Newbies

I agree with you about our defense. It sucks to have the "talent" we are supposed to have, but when we are winning a playoff game by 2 or 3 touchdowns (against Green Bay, I forget the halftime score) and we still have to worry. Why? Because we know our defense. We know that no lead is safe and a team can catch us at any point. It sucks to be up by 2 touchdowns with 5 minutes left and we have to think "well, we are the Cardinals, this lead is not safe, even still." This is a fear I'd love to have go away with the new defensive staff. At this point, I have no loyalty for anyone. If Horton thinks a player is better suited for our defense than what we have, make the change coach.

 

[THESMEL]

I'm hopeful but a little history for those with built iun forgettors. Clancy took us from bottom to middle to to top 10 in defense under Denny.

Than along came whiz who throwed down some mandates like the 3-4 for Clancy to stay. Whiz replaced Clancy with Davis but i didn't see a whole lot of differrence in scheme nor effectiveness.

High risk bend don't break hybrid 4-3 and 3-4 defense. Scheme was focused and we were never worth a poot from a base defense. Eric Green was better than Rolle at CB until such whisenheimers.

Horton Will bring in a pride in stopping yards and scores from a base defense. Horton will establish a normal so when He actually steps outside the box with something exotic, It will surprise an offense!

We were actually surprising offenses when we ran a base defense! there is alot more talent on this defense by my grades than the worse defense in the NFL. But i feel the same about the offense.

I hope Horton gets in Whiz, Grimm and Miller's face and states clearly like Gandolf on the Lord of the Rings. You shall not PASS! You shall not have 3 and outs and put my defense back on the field with 6 seconds gone off the game clock.

I hope Horton the Elephant isn't the only one to hear whoville this time!

 

[BigRedRage]

so whiz wanted 3 and outs? Horton works for whiz, not the other way around.

 

[WildBB]

Now if he can keep our corners away from being 10 yards deep when the ball is snapped, I might just get ecstatic.

That's a key. We've played too soft too long. The better pass D's all press and run with the recievers, then trun back to locate the ball.

 

[Cardiac]

http://arizonasports.com/templates/audio_player.php?a=9790&type=s

The above link takes you to the interview on Gambo and Ash, I thought this was also a great listen.

 

[desertdawg]

http://arizonasports.com/templates/audio_player.php?a=9790&type=s

The above link takes you to the interview on Gambo and Ash, I thought this was also a great listen.

I like the guy already, but he does sound just like this guy on the radio.

 

[Duckjake]

I agree with you about our defense. It sucks to have the "talent" we are supposed to have, but when we are winning a playoff game by 2 or 3 touchdowns (against Green Bay, I forget the halftime score) and we still have to worry. Why? Because we know our defense. We know that no lead is safe and a team can catch us at any point. It sucks to be up by 2 touchdowns with 5 minutes left and we have to think "well, we are the Cardinals, this lead is not safe, even still." This is a fear I'd love to have go away with the new defensive staff. At this point, I have no loyalty for anyone. If Horton thinks a player is better suited for our defense than what we have, make the change coach.

At one point the Cards were up 31-10. I have posted several times the number of leads the Cards had that they either blew or tried to blow in 2009. I'm with you and hope that it was Davis that was the problem because if you look at the players on the D you don't see any Bernard Wilsons or Fred Wakefields or Tony McCoys or Brad Ottis or Tom Knights.

But I'm afraid it is just a Cardinal tradition to have bad defenses. In 2006 they ranked 29th in both points and yards allowed. With Berry,Okeafor,Dansby,Dockett,Wilson, Pace,Rolle and Robert Griffith on defense.