How About Andris Biedrins?

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
No lottery guarantee? Where did you hear that? He was a lock for the lottery until his pituitary condition which has since been treated.

I guarantee you he will go in the top 10 picks right now. I am not saying that he will be decent, I am saying someone will take him and it would not suprise me if it was the Suns.

We did trade a first round pick for Luc Longley remember?

Now THAT is reassuring.

He is expected to go early, but I expect his stock will drop once he goes through team workouts. We'll see.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
Now THAT is reassuring.

He is expected to go early, but I expect his stock will drop once he goes through team workouts. We'll see.

It could go either way. This looks like the worst draft in recent memory. I don't think it will take much talent to be in the lottery.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
It could go either way. This looks like the worst draft in recent memory. I don't think it will take much talent to be in the lottery.

What bothers me most is how few of the top ranked players are expected to even contribute next year. The Suns need guys who can play within a couple of years, but that seems rare this year.

BTW, Andris Biedrins may prove to be less well developed than the scouting reports indicate. My interest is in finding someone who can play soon - especially someone who can play defense, rebound and block shots. I'm more interested in immediate impact than "potential". I'm interested in Beidrins almost as much because of how much I don't like the other big guys(besides Okafor and Howard) than because I'm convinced he will be great.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Well we both are in 100% agreement George. We need a big man that can box out and block a shot. We simply don't have it.

Little Jake-Okay rebounder-no shot blocking

White-Decent rebounder-no shot blocking

Lampe-Offensive center that can't be found on the court.

I don't care who it is. Right now I hope we win the lottery and trade the pick for an established player.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
It could go either way. This looks like the worst draft in recent memory. I don't think it will take much talent to be in the lottery.

In February, all drafts look bad.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
Well we both are in 100% agreement George. We need a big man that can box out and block a shot. We simply don't have it.

Little Jake-Okay rebounder-no shot blocking

White-Decent rebounder-no shot blocking

Lampe-Offensive center that can't be found on the court.

I don't care who it is. Right now I hope we win the lottery and trade the pick for an established player.

Shot blocking is only a small part of what a good defensive center can do, but it is important. The key is the ability to block shots of guys driving the lane. However, I'm leary of shot blockers like Swift that don't move their feet or keep their oppoents from getting in position to score in close.

I wish there was a stat for good defense that measured how effectively the player limited the number of shots the opponent takes and the percentage that go in.

 

[sunsfn]

My feeling is if the suns win #1, in the lottery they would take Howard. He will grow some and can probably play center.
#2, take Okafor. (he can not play center in the NBA!, at least not many minutes)
#3, bpa or trade down.

This looks like a bummer year for draft picks that can contribute right away or even in 2-3 years.

This could change though as it has done in the past.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by sunsfn
My feeling is if the suns win #1, in the lottery they would take Howard. He will grow some and can probably play center.
#2, take Okafor. (he can not play center in the NBA!, at least not many minutes)

Howard is being described as the next Kevin Garnett. That is not the sort of player you worry about position for.

Okafor may very well play center a lot of center depending on who drafts him. On the Suns, he could easily be the a major defensive improvement over Voskuhl. Jake is taller, but not as physical or athletic (Okafor is AVERGING a double double at U. Conn). Okafor my not be tall enough to be a dominant NBA center, but I have no doubt he can play the position.

On Friday, Jahidi White had 13 rebounds in only 24 minutes against Memphis. He ranks 8th in the NBA in rebounds per minute, but he is no taller than Okafor and is less athletic.

 

[sunsfn]

George said,
------------------------------------------------------
Howard is being described as the next Kevin Garnett. That is not the sort of player you worry about position for.

Okafor may very well play center a lot of center depending on who drafts him. On the Suns, he could easily be the a major defensive improvement over Voskuhl. Jake is taller, but not as physical or athletic (Okafor is AVERGING a double double at U. Conn). Okafor my not be tall enough to be a dominant NBA center, but I have no doubt he can play the position.

On Friday, Jahidi White had 13 rebounds in only 24 minutes against Memphis. He ranks 8th in the NBA in rebounds per minute, but he is no taller than Okafor and is less athletic.
------------------------------------------------------------

Howard is supposed to be 6' 11", I have not seen him play but if he is that tall he can play center.

George, when you say he is not the sort of player you worry about a position for, I did not say that in my post.

Okafor is about 6' 8" not 6' 9", and yes I am sure he can play center on some teams, but like I said not a lot of time.
Olafor is averaging double double at U. conn.......we all know that George, so are you saying he is going to average a double double in the NBA?

I do not understand you saying White is not taller than Okafor, white is a true 6' 9" plus, and is a wide body and center is his position.
I believe Okafor will be a better player than White, but he will do it playing p. f..

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by sunsfn

Okafor is about 6' 8" not 6' 9", and yes I am sure he can play center on some teams, but like I said not a lot of time.
Olafor is averaging double double at U. conn.......we all know that George, so are you saying he is going to average a double double in the NBA?

I do not understand you saying White is not taller than Okafor, white is a true 6' 9" plus, and is a wide body and center is his position.
I believe Okafor will be a better player than White, but he will do it playing p. f..
[/B]

This debate over how tall Okafor is gets wearying. Draft City lists him at 6'10"; nbadraft.net, InsideHoops and Hoopshype list him at 6'9". Insidehoops lists Okafor at 6'9" and Howard at 6'10".
Can you give a source that shows Okafor at 6'8" wearing shoes?

draft city

Okafor does everything. He can rebound, he can block, and he can score. He has a great NBA body, good upper AND lower body strength. He has a feel around the basket that is essential for a shotblocker, it seems that even with his back turned he always knows where the hoop is. But what I think sets him apart from most other players his his mind and work ethic.

After an amazing freshman season he was told that he would not be as effective a shotblocker since people knew him now. So he practiced all summer and learned how to blockshots with his mind, not just his physical gifts. And this year he blocks 5 shots a game, and alters about 10 more. His freshman year he has almost no offensive game other than putbacks so over the summer he worked on that. Now he has an unstoppable baby hook shot that people can see countless times. And this summer he says he wants to work on his post footwork (how much better can it get?), his free throw shooting, and maybe on a consistent 15 foot jumper.

With a prospect like Okafor the best thing is to break his skills down completely:

Offense: As mentioned above Okafor came to UCONN with little to no offensive skills. His footwork was spotty and he had no post moves. All of that has changed, especially his post footwork. Since his freshman year he has added numerous moves to his repertoire including a consistent baby hook, great up and under moves, and more. His body strength also helps him a great deal, he truly knows how to use his strength to his advantage in muscling opponents. Court awareness, the ability to "know" what is happening around the court intuitively, which also makes him a great defender helps Okafor on the offensive end. Even when he has his back to the basket Okafor seems to know what to do, where to go, etc. and he often (when he is posting up) simply rises above his opponents without even looking to the basket (so the opponent has no idea what he will do). Okafor excels at running up and down the court often outrunning opposing forwards and centers for easy buckets on the break. His speed also gives him a great edge in getting early court position.

Defense: What is there to say here? He is arguably the best defensive player to come to the NBA in the past 5 years. He can block from the weakside or when covering someone man to man. He will not only block shots, he will anchor an entire's team defense.

Rebounding: His 2nd greatest skill. Once again Okafor has learned to combine his stunning physical gifts with basketball IQ. He not only gets great position on offense and defense he has the strength, speed, and vertical leap to outrebound anyone on the court. On the offensive end he is also quick enough that he will go right back up for an easy putback before his opponents even realize what has happened. On the defensive end he is also great at getting out a quick outlook pass letting his team enter into their fastbreak offense at every possibly opportunity.

Yeh, I think he would help.

 

[sunsfn]

George said,
------------------------------------------
This debate over how tall Okafor is gets wearying.
---------------------------------

I agree.........!

George have you watched any of his games?

I have watched a number of them. He is going to be an excellent player and he will go 1 or 2 in the draft.

But when he played against Hakim Warrick, it appeared Warrick was the same height as him, and at times when they were standing in the free throw line maybe taller..........Warrick is listed at 6' 8" tall and is no taller than that.

The way to find out how tall these players are is to compare them to other players that you know the true height of.
When Dan Majerle played for the suns, I went to a number of games and some practices, (you could go to them at one time) and I got him to autograph a picture of his dunk over Manute Bol. I asked him to tell me his exact height and he said I am exactly 6' 6" tall. After that I used his height on tv and practices to try to figure out the heights of other players. There were a lot of players that were supposed to be 2-3 inches taller than him that were his same height.

If you believe everything you read in the scouting reports you are going to be seriously disappointed later on.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by sunsfn

The way to find out how tall these players are is to compare them to other players that you know the true height of.
When Dan Majerle played for the suns, I went to a number of games and some practices, (you could go to them at one time) and I got him to autograph a picture of his dunk over Manute Bol. I asked him to tell me his exact height and he said I am exactly 6' 6" tall. After that I used his height on tv and practices to try to figure out the heights of other players. There were a lot of players that were supposed to be 2-3 inches taller than him that were his same height.

If you believe everything you read in the scouting reports you are going to be seriously disappointed later on.

At some point I don't really care how tall his head is if his arms are long enough and he is strong enough. You said you watched his games, but failed to mention how dominating he has been. The cliche that someone plays taller certainly seems to apply.

What is the Suns worst case? Amare plays center and Okafor plays PF? Okafor backs up both PF and C and gets 30 minutes a game between the two?

Don't get me wrong. If Howard is as good as people say, I would probably take him event though I don't think he will have as much immediate impact as Okafor. But I'm not horribly worried about making a choice between Howard and Okafor.

Choosing between Perovic and Biedrins - that is hard choice.