How come you guys are always complaining when Graves doesn't get someone?

[pinetopred]

Well said.

FTFY, I wouldn't add Marshall to players that Graves has done good by.

Graves has had his hits, but he has had a lot of misses as well.

Yet, you are 100% correct, better to be on a board then that actual GM. It is a thankless job.

Yet, Graves gets paid a boatload of cash for the criticism he takes, and we as fans pay good money to make those criticism.

Regardless if some pretentious person wants everyone to be positive, be nice, hold hands, and skip through the meadows together.

I was using the Marshall example as a guy we picked up, he played well for us which makes him a good pickup IMO. The fact that he moved on I'm also fine with I think that is a position that can be filled on another 1 year deal with a vet playing for another payday. I agree Graves deserves criticism from fans I would worry more if no one cared, I don't think he is the best GM in the league but don't think he is the worst either.

 

[Dayman]

Michael Wilbon had a great line about now-former Bears' GM Jerry Angelo:

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/stor...anager-jerry-angelo-needs-take-accountability

How much he tried is a lot less important than what he actually accomplished.

I feel the same way about Graves.

Look, I'm sure GM isn't an easy job, but other GMs around the league don't run into the same problems as Rod does on a daily basis. Sometimes those problems are due to inactivity, like this year. Say what you will about our strong (questionably flukish) finish last season, but this team still needs more improvements than the draft can handle. Some people defend our inertia by reminding everyone it's only March and there's a lot of time left in the off-season. The problem with this theory is that, like usual, every other team appears to be operating on a different timeline, which means the free agent pool is drying up by the day. Sitting back and waiting for extreme bargains is great for proven playoff teams like GB and Pitt. It's not the most common practice for teams that missed the postseason like us.

When Graves is active, things tend to get even worse. Three of the seven players with the highest cap hit on the team were brought in last year, and none of them are living up to their salary.

Kevin Kolb-$10 million
Stewart Bradley-$6 million
Daryn Colledge-$5.5 million

Colledge was fine last year, but he still doesn't justify that salary. Again, Graves tried, but what did he accomplish? There's a glut of ILBs on the market right now to be had for relatively cheap. Stephen Tullouch, who was one of the best MLBs in the league last season, is said to be looking for $6 million per year, and the Lions are hesitant. Meanwhile, we handed over that kind of money to a guy (Bradley) who responded with 36 tackles last year. Eric Winston just signed with the Chiefs for Colledge-type money. Missing on FAs is one thing, but overpaying and missing leads to a whole new set of problems.

I will give RG credit for his role in re-signing Fitz, Wilson and Dockett. But it's not like those players settled for less to stick around. They agreed to high-end contracts when pressure had mounted to get a deal done. Right now we should be working on getting Washington a new deal before he hits his contract year. Instead, Graves is still negotiating with CC, who should have been taken care of months ago. It's fairly maddening.

That's why I complain when Graves doesn't get someone (who's reasonably priced and can help the team).

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Lutui was going to sign for more BEFORE the Bengals found out he was a lard a$$, which the Cards already knew. Don't let the truth get in the way of your argument.

Uh, that is what I said.

I may not know much, but I know how to read.

Why don't you go judge someone else for the day there spanky, your amazingness is too much for me.

I sure hope you don't carry your black cloud attitude with you everywhere you go.

 

[40yearfan]

Edge was not coveted. He was considered a RB who was on his last legs. I know you said this year, but the Cards consistently over pay for mediocre talent, see Portrer, Bradley, Johnson etc, and that makes it even more frustrating. Why not spend the money on talented players instead expecting proven mediocre players like Paris Lenon to come in and suddenly be good players. Demetrius Bell is available and fills a substantila need. Why would they let him leave unless there is a medical issue we don't know about. We'll find out about that. Why not make a play for Kameron Wimbley? Do you think he pulled Tennessee out of a hat? The Titans contacted him and showed a strong interest. That's why he's going there. Graves doesn't do that.

Paris Lenon is a great example. He has far outplayed his pay scale, yet you refuse to give Graves credit for getting him at a good price. Same for Barry, Hagans, Warner, etc. It's funny how selective memory seems to affect all Graves bashers.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I agree Graves deserves criticism from fans I would worry more if no one cared, I don't think he is the best GM in the league but don't think he is the worst either.

Agreed.

The Dolphins are hard to watch do business right now. Painful even.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Paris Lenon is a great example. He has far outplayed his pay scale, yet you refuse to give Graves credit for getting him at a good price. Same for Barry, Hagans, Warner, etc. It's funny how selective memory seems to affect all Graves bashers.

Funny how selective the memory is for Graves supporters.

Doesn't seem to go past 2007.



Graves does a fine job with what tools he has. He works for an uncompetitive front office, and he is an average at best GM.

Which is fine with me, but don't expect him to sign any big name players that were not already on the roster, and even then he has problems getting the job done.

It is what it is. For better of for worse. But to say there is no reason to complain about the situation or the guy and the job he does is niave, and pretentious. We all don't know squat, and are talking on a message board for Pete's sake. Opinions here are going to be voiced, regardless of what hoiler than thou know it alls want to try to control and thank goodness for it.

 

[Ed Burmila]

Paris Lenon is a great example. He has far outplayed his pay scale, yet you refuse to give Graves credit for getting him at a good price. Same for Barry, Hagans, Warner, etc. It's funny how selective memory seems to affect all Graves bashers.

I'm not sure that selectively pointing out the three good signings he has made - come on, Haggans? - is much better than only pointing out the bad signings. And neither Berry nor Warner were cheap - they came here because we offered more money (and in Warner's case, a better shot at playing time) than anyone else.

It hardly is a great credit to the skills of Rod Graves that Berry came here because we offered a lot of money. But in general you are correct, there HAVE been some successes. The problem is there haven't been enough of them.

 

[40yearfan]

Funny how selective the memory is for Graves supporters.

Doesn't seem to go past 2007.

And it shouldn't. He didn't assume the full GM role until Denny Green left.

 

[tnmike]

Uh, that is what I said.

I may not know much, but I know how to read.

Why don't you go judge someone else for the day there spanky, your amazingness is too much for me.

I sure hope you don't carry your black cloud attitude with you everywhere you go.

Twisting words and their meanings don't accomplish a whole lot.
You lost the argument long ago

 

[RugbyMuffin]

And it shouldn't. He didn't assume the full GM role until Denny Green left.

Yes, you are correct sir.

Darn old people with all their wisdom.

 

[40yearfan]

I'm not sure that selectively pointing out the three good signings he has made - come on, Haggans? - is much better than only pointing out the bad signings. And neither Berry nor Warner were cheap - they came here because we offered more money (and in Warner's case, a better shot at playing time) than anyone else.

It hardly is a great credit to the skills of Rod Graves that Berry came here because we offered a lot of money. But in general you are correct, there HAVE been some successes. The problem is there haven't been enough of them.

I just named 3 off of the top of my head. What about Rhodes, Mike Adams, Colledge, Bridges, Holliday, King, etc. ? If you are at a 50% success rate on FA's in the NFL, you are doing a very good job.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Twisting words and their meanings don't accomplish a whole lot.
You lost the argument long ago

Wasn't trying to win an arguement, at least not with you. You have been pokin' and proddin' and hopin' I would care what you say. Why would I bother ? When was the last time you were ever wrong, and anyone that disagreed with you right ? Probably a long time ago.

Don't really know what you are talking about. I see 4 posts of insults, but you can keep on at it if it makes you feel good about yourself. Heck, I will even say, OK.I'm stupid, don't know anything and now you win. Good job.

As for twisting words ? LOL. It was two straight forward sentences.

 

[Duckjake]

It's really simple to see what the Cardinals problems have been.

1. They let their experienced players leave because they want too much $ or are unhappy with the team.
2. They replace them with equal or lesser talent who don't have experience with the Cardinals and over pay them.

That's why they only had 3 winning seasons since the advent of free agency in 1989. And it is why the one period that they didn't do the above and held on to their own guys they won 2 Division titles and went to the Super Bowl.

 

[JeffGollin]

... I agree Graves deserves criticism from fans I would worry more if no one cared, I don't think he is the best GM in the league but don't think he is the worst either.

We sometimes forget that the skill-set of a new hire is often a reaction to previous weaknesses management wants to correct.

If my memory serves me correctly, we hired Graves after Buddy Ryan left, leaving us cap-screwed with a lopsided roster filled with divisiveness between the offense and defense.

Graves was brought in to bring structure, organization and professionalism to what heretofore was a somehat chaotic situation. He brought in a methodical, procedure-driven management style which understandably erred on the side of conservatism.

He's still a bit "cautious in hiis decision-making and has made more than one mistake (I'd put the bypassing of Suggs in order to draft Johnson and Pace at the top of that list). But he also has learned from those mistakes and constantly adjusted (Look at his drafting approach, which has evoved from "drafting targeted players one round early 'so we'd guarantee we'd get them' to a modified BPA approach emphasizing drafting players higher than their perceived value).

Sometimes I wish he'd be more instinctive in his decision-making and feel he's a bit too scripted when stating the FO's case, but I also think he's been instrumental in a significant upgrading of the franchise.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

That's why they only had 3 winning seasons since the advent of free agency in 1989. And it is why the one period that they didn't do the above and held on to their own guys they won 2 Division titles and went to the Super Bowl.

Great post.

:jumping_smilie:

 

[Duckjake]

I just named 3 off of the top of my head. What about Rhodes, Mike Adams, Colledge, Bridges, Holliday, King, etc. ? If you are at a 50% success rate on FA's in the NFL, you are doing a very good job.

Mike Adams has never played for anyone but Arizona.

Rhodes obviously isn't as good as many here on ASFN claim. The Defense was better while he was out injured and the only game they lost out of the last 6 was the only one he played. If he was any good why would the Jets have let him go? Oh yeah, he's easily replaced

 

[Ed Burmila]

When Michael Adams, Jeremy Bridges, and Vonnie Holliday (who was a bit player in the rotation) are your success stories, you're stretching your point a little thin.

 

[pinetopred]

We sometimes forget that the skill-set of a new hire is often a reaction to previous weaknesses management wants to correct.

If my memory serves me correctly, we hired Graves after Buddy Ryan left, leaving us cap-screwed with a lopsided roster filled with divisiveness between the offense and defense.

Graves was brought in to bring structure, organization and professionalism to what heretofore was a somehat chaotic situation. He brought in a methodical, procedure-driven management style which understandably erred on the side of conservatism.

He's still a bit "cautious in hiis decision-making and has made more than one mistake (I'd put the bypassing of Suggs in order to draft Johnson and Pace at the top of that list). But he also has learned from those mistakes and constantly adjusted (Look at his drafting approach, which has evoved from "drafting targeted players one round early 'so we'd guarantee we'd get them' to a modified BPA approach emphasizing drafting players higher than their perceived value).

Sometimes I wish he'd be more instinctive in his decision-making and feel he's a bit too scripted when stating the FO's case, but I also think he's been instrumental in a significant upgrading of the franchise.

I was thinking along the same lines and even started typing it, glad I didn't because this is a way better of a post then I would have come up with. WELL SAID.

 

[40yearfan]

When Michael Adams, Jeremy Bridges, and Vonnie Holliday (who was a bit player in the rotation) are your success stories, you're stretching your point a little thin.

Not when you look at what they are paid. They have all played beyond their pay scale and that is the object of FA. Anybody can overpay for a top notch talent and it happens on a yearly basis. Look at Washington.

Look at the Bills and Mario Williams. They've signed him, used up their cap and now have to hope he isn't going to be a colossal bust or end up injured. It's a chance they are willing to take due to the possible up-side, but they will be ridiculed if it don't work out. That's the problem with FA. There are no guarantees.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Mike Adams has never played for anyone but Arizona.

Rhodes obviously isn't as good as many here on ASFN claim. The Defense was better while he was out injured and the only game they lost out of the last 6 was the only one he played. If he was any good why would the Jets have let him go? Oh yeah, he's easily replaced

Rhodes will show his worth this year.

I have confidence, he will thrive in this system.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Wimbley is getting 5 yrs at $35M in Tenn. Nice player, but that's a little much for a guy whose averaged 7 sacks a year over his career. Maybe a serious thoight in a year when Cards aren't tight against the CAP.

we gave Stewart Bradley 6 million per year and he hadn't even played well in two years but a guy who averages 7 sacks per year over his career at a million dollars more is too much? That makes sense.

 

[Duckjake]

Rhodes will show his worth this year.

I have confidence, he will thrive in this system.

Don't ruin my anti-curse Yankee.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

we gave Stewart Bradley 6 million per year and he hadn't even played well in two years but a guy who averages 7 sacks per year over his career at a million dollars more is too much? That makes sense.

We had a lot of CAP space last year. Of Wimbley's 7 sacks last season, 3 came in one game. Won't be surprised if Bradley takes a lot of snaps at OLB this season.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Won't be surprised if Bradley takes a lot of snaps at OLB this season.

+1

And BTW, Wimbley got 4 of his 7 sacks in one game last year vs. San Diego.

 

[52brandon]

He demanded a trade. Claimed he was lied to about getting a new contract.

Personally:

He was under contract. A contract he agreed to and signed. Play it out and get a new deal. All his whining was ridiculous to me.

if Graves told him he'd give him one and then didn't, I'd say it makes sense. Q still busted his ass every game while demanding a trade