How Do we get more/better posters at ASFN?

[Mike Olbinski]

I got killed a couple years back for saying I would trade Shawn Marion for Tayshaun Prince (I would do that in a heartbeat right now by the way).

 

[Gaddabout]

Here are three things that can increase the new users/traffic on this site:

1. People who post a story that posted already are attacked and told to "do a better search", "already posted idiot". I believe that the attacking attitude on this board has caused some people to go away.

2. Think before you type. I see many posts on this site that make no sense and are not realistic thoughts

3. Football season starts will bring many new people back.

4. Have a sense of humor and don't take yourself so seriously.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

no one who works close to the organization or at the US Airways Center posts here with upcoming tidbits.

It sucks there are no leaks about who we're interested in drafting and who we want to sign next season.

Actually, I know of two people who post here with some kind of regularity that work at the US Airways Center, so don't be so sure that noone's here to post info.

 

[jenna2891]

no one who works close to the organization or at the US Airways Center posts here with upcoming tidbits.

It sucks there are no leaks about who we're interested in drafting and who we want to sign next season.

that's stupid comment that's already been talked about a lot. do a better search next time! stupid newbie!















j/k welcome, nativesun!

 

[pokerface]

okay, this is about the third time I've seen one of these little comments in these threads about the messageboard itself, and I can't take it any longer.

I assume you are referring to the thread where you continued to argue (ultimately with yourself because no one else was responding much)

What are you talking about? They were responding the whole time. If they would have ended it I would have ended it. They SAID they were ending it...only to keep coming back with more responses. Why should I let them get the last word in when they're way off base?

that the Phoenix Suns rushed back Amare Stoudemire, and it was impossible that he could recover that quickly from the dreaded microfracture surgery.

Well did he come back as advertised? Did they bring him back at 100%? Did Jerry Colangelo talk him into coming back? Did other players in the past claim they were also rushed back? Do other players come back 4-5 months from microfracture?

Look, some of you guys who complain about this "group attack", "elitism", etc. need to figure something out. If you come on here and post something that the majority here doesn't agree with you are going to get some strong responses from said majority..

What constitutes a majority...Two or three people that voice their opinions repeatedly? Was a poll taken that I'm not aware of? And what the question anyways....How about this question...How many people believe that a player is likely to come back to 100% health only 4-5 months after microfracfture surgery? I dont believe I'm in the minority to say that seems unrealistic.

As I remember it nobody turned at all personal until about the fifth or sixth time you repeated your same argument without really responding to the specific evidence to the contrary people were providing you...

I asked tough questions that I never got replies to...such as "How many pro athletes have come back in four months from microfracture surgery"..."Why did they say they wouldnt bring Amare back until he's 100% and bring him back far below that"..."After Amare said his return chances are 50/50 why did Jerry Colangelo feel compelled to give Amare a talking to?" also after the Jerry talk why did Amare do an about face and say he was returning?

These questions and others shouldnt mean that certain ASFN alumni regs should come out and attack me accusing me of being other banned posters or calling me cancer and I should be banned. After initially defending me now you're starting to sound like they were justified. Show me posts we're I got all personal with them like that. Also certain posters seem to be getting a free ride using the terms "stupid" and "moronic" etc etc referring to people and thier posts. I'd be happy to quote such posts if need be but I think you already know who I'm talking about.

Just because a bunch of people don't agree with you and make an argument (that is what happens on message boards) that doesn't mean there's some group effort or coordinated attack here....

For one thing, I'm not the only person to make this claim...a couple others have said it and again I'd be happy to quote them if necessary. Secondly, The thread in question you brought up seemed like a tag team effort. When one person is making accusations and the other is chiming in what would you call that? And when both posters dont maintain a certain respect level and act condensending then it seems like a bullying effort. I invite you to reread that thread and thier responses and mine carefully. The thread where I'm supposedly talking to myself.

Instead of complaining because you feel picked on just grow some thicker skin, keep posting, and have some fun.

I'm just calling people out. Some of the people with the biggest mouths do the biggest crying when it comes back around...its quite sickening. Regardless I do enjoy the board and I enjoy debating as well so I'm fine with the majority of what goes on around here. Others are the ones that have brought up issues with the board and I'm just voicing my opinion on the matter.

I've said several times through this latest messageboard upheaval and several times before that we need to be nicer to the new posters. However I just do not agree with the idea that these new posters are treated poorly because they are new posters. It's usually because they come on here and start by posting ideas that are that a lot of people strongly disagree with, or crazy trade ideas that are either impossible or as likely as me playing for the Phoenix Suns tomorrow.

Sometimes though a new poster that has a minority opinion gets treated shabbily. Not to beat my own drum but I cant think of a better example when I stated that the Suns knew full well that Amare wouldnt be making a full recovery in four months. I dont think that was an "outlandish" statement that deserved the wrath of a few posters. My take is some people dont like it when their "black and white" view of the Suns gets rocked and they dont know what to believe. They dont want to believe for a second that the Suns higher ups actually deceive people here and there. They would rather attack the messenger instead so they can return to a sense of normalcy.


Anyway, you seem like a decent fellow but I felt like I had to respond to some issues you brought up. I dont think you're seeing things as clearly as you'd like to believe because of some long time friendships you've had on here with the regs. I think you've conviently overlooked some things but you arn't in full denial like some on here so props for that.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

How about this question...How many people believe that a player is likely to come back to 100% health only 4-5 months after microfracfture surgery? I dont believe I'm in the minority to say that seems unrealistic.

Possible? Yes. There is a chance that a young, relatively healthy 24 year old could come back from an injury of that sort in 4-5 months with a rigorous training regimine. With that being said, if I were Mike D'Antoni, Bryan Colangelo, Robert Sarver, Jerry Colangelo or any of the other member of the Phoenix Sun staff, I'd have kept him on the shelf for the season and would not have run the risk of further injury by bringing him back when they did.

With that being said, don't be fooled in to believing that Amare didn't have some kind of say in when his return was. Ultimately, he knows his body better than any of us do, and although we all can sit back and ciriticise him and the Sun brass, in the end he had the final say in the matter (at least in my opinion.)

With the mixed success in microfracture surgeries, you can never be too sure as to how the results were going to fare. We've seen some come back without losing a step (Jason Kidd), while others were never the same (Penny Hardaway). So with that said, it's a tough call to make to say it was unrealistic to expect him to come back in such a short period of time.

These questions and others shouldnt mean that certain ASFN alumni regs should come out and attack me accusing me of being other banned posters or calling me cancer and I should be banned. After initially defending me now you're starting to sound like they were justified. Show me posts we're I got all personal with them like that. Also certain posters seem to be getting a free ride using the terms "stupid" and "moronic" etc etc referring to people and thier posts. I'd be happy to quote such posts if need be but I think you already know who I'm talking about.

Unless you (in general, not you directly) acted like a complete and utter cornholio in your tone of posting, noone should be bashed or slammed for having an opinion, even IF it goes against the majority. Part of what makes boards like thes and America in general great is the ability to have free speech. It also keeps the boards flowing to see someone with an opposite view of things. Debates are what makes the world go round IMHO.

Anyhow, that's just my $.02 on the matter. I don't know the full story, so perhaps I'm out of line by posting this, and if I offended anyone by doing so, I apologize.

 

[pokerface]

Possible? Yes. There is a chance that a young, relatively healthy 24 year old could come back from an injury of that sort in 4-5 months with a rigorous training regimine. With that being said, if I were Mike D'Antoni, Bryan Colangelo, Robert Sarver, Jerry Colangelo or any of the other member of the Phoenix Sun staff, I'd have kept him on the shelf for the season and would not have run the risk of further injury by bringing him back when they did.

The question was is it LIKELY that Amare would be 100% in four months. And frankly...it doesnt seem possible either. It doesnt seem possible when I've never seen a player come back 100% in four months. I've never seen a player come back in even 8 months anywhere near 100%. Instead of saying Amare is 24 years old like thats some magic pill you should give some examples of players returning in sort periods of time.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

The question was is it LIKELY that Amare would be 100% in four months. And frankly...it doesnt seem possible either. It doesnt seem possible when I've never seen a player come back 100% in four months. I've never seen a player come back in even 8 months anywhere near 100%. Instead of saying Amare is 24 years old like thats some magic pill you should give some examples of players returning in sort periods of time.

First, I wasn't using Amare's age as some kind of "magic pill" or anything else for that matter. My point was, there's no way of knowing how the age of a young, inshape person can recover from injuries of the sort.

As for examples.. Here's one that stands out..

Jason Kidd had microfacture surgery on July 1, 2004 and was back on the court by December, 5 months later. He seemed not to lose a step.

In all though, I actually agreed with you that the Suns rushed judgement in bringing Amare back too soon, and would have been better off prolonging his return, but apparently that was overlooked.

 

[pokerface]

I just want to add to the thread in general that a certain amount of kidding around and even a little antagonizing should be ok and even encouraged. I'm no choir boy and I'm not trying to win the award for best internet Suns citizen. I just want to entertain and be entertained and try to add a little insight in discussions if I can. But others that try to get too demeaning and liberal with their chat should be reigned in a little....just once in a while. Some are taking this chat too serious and are acting like drama queens...

 

[Diamondback Jay]

I just want to add to the thread in general that a certain amount of kidding around and even a little antagonizing should be ok and even encouraged. I'm no choir boy and I'm not trying to win the award for best internet Suns citizen. I just want to entertain and be entertained and try to add a little insight in discussions if I can. But others that try to get too demeaning and liberal with their chat should be reigned in a little....just once in a while. Some are taking this chat too serious and are acting like drama queens...

I'm not one of them. Too many other things in life to take seriously, arguing over an internet message board over sports isn't one of them.

 

[pokerface]

First, I wasn't using Amare's age as some kind of "magic pill" or anything else for that matter. My point was, there's no way of knowing how the age of a young, inshape person can recover from injuries of the sort.

As for examples.. Here's one that stands out..

Jason Kidd had microfacture surgery on July 1, 2004 and was back on the court by December, 5 months later. He seemed not to lose a step.

In all though, I actually agreed with you that the Suns rushed judgement in bringing Amare back too soon, and would have been better off prolonging his return, but apparently that was overlooked.

Its just that we shouldnt get carried away with Amares age...theres no precedent. Players arnt coming back all over the place in speedy fashion. Its a big big thing to assume Amare can come back in 4,5, or even 8-10 months in anywhere near his former condition. As far as Jason Kidd...he was a good example but was he even himself totally? Some said he wasnt totally himself right away. And for every JK example I could give two or three Kenyon Martin or Chris Webbers. My point is...its misleading and irresponsible for the Suns to be throwing around such dates to begin with. It put needless pressure on Amare only for him not to be able to meet such lofty ambitions...He ends up hurting his other knee overcompensating.

 

[pokerface]

Also I want to add Kidd wasnt a leaper...He didnt play above the rim like Amare. Amares 100% and Kidds are two different levels.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

And for every JK example I could give two or three Kenyon Martin or Chris Webbers. My point is...its misleading and irresponsible for the Suns to be throwing around such dates to begin with. It put needless pressure on Amare only for him not to be able to meet such lofty ambitions...He ends up hurting his other knee overcompensating.

You do have a valid point. For every Jason Kidd, there are three or four Chris Webbers, who never quite reach the level of play they once had.

Either way, I think we both agree, thankfully the Suns learned their lesson quickly and shelved the return before the results became even more disasterous.

 

[pokerface]

You do have a valid point. For every Jason Kidd, there are three or four Chris Webbers, who never quite reach the level of play they once had.

Either way, I think we both agree, thankfully the Suns learned their lesson quickly and shelved the return before the results became even more disasterous.

Agreed. When they pulled the plug the last time they meant it.

I hope Amare is even ready by workouts. I dont think he will be 100% in October but closer to 85-90%.

 

[AZZenny]

We, the moderators, have asked that you please find another way to express yourself without using the word "nazi".

I have no idea who banned him, but we were instructed to ban people who had signed up with trollish user names.

Tradenash could easily be construed as that.

At the risk of being banned for public anti-authoritarianism, these quotes seem to sum up at least one problem here, which I noticed also on another forum: hyper-vigilant, over-reactive moderation/rules which show neither a sense of humor nor much sense of perspective.

It's one thing to call someone a nazi or a commie, or (gasp) a Kobe-lover -- but 'board nazi' is like Seinfeld's 'the soup nazi' and is a satirical cultural reference. Then again, if someone is banned for a silly, non-profane name like tradenash, maybe the 'n' word should be taken literally.

Merging and locking threads is disorganizing and disorienting to a board. Moderating is an art form and should be used only in moderation.

 

[Mike Olbinski]

At the risk of being banned for public anti-authoritarianism, these quotes seem to sum up at least one problem here, which I noticed also on another forum: hyper-vigilant, over-reactive moderation/rules which show neither a sense of humor nor much sense of perspective.

It's one thing to call someone a nazi or a commie, or (gasp) a Kobe-lover -- but 'board nazi' is like Seinfeld's 'the soup nazi' and is a satirical cultural reference. Then again, if someone is banned for a silly, non-profane name like tradenash, maybe the 'n' word should be taken literally.

Merging and locking threads is disorganizing and disorienting to a board. Moderating is an art form and should be used only in moderation.

Good thoughts, but the thing is, we've fixed the overmoderation problem like a week ago...

Anyways...whether you like it or not, that word is frowned upon here. Soup Nazi was funny, yes, but there are a lot of funny things we aren't going to allow on the board.

And TradeNash was an obvious trolling, reaction-wanting name...and I wont allow it.

Mike

 

[AZZenny]

Sorry, I was out of the country at the time. Just catching up (in a pretty jet-lagged manner). With rare exceptions, I don't personally think provocative names merit banning -- but if the content of the post is inappropriate, go for it.

If a word isn't allowed, don't you have the ability to just **** it automatically?

 

[pokerface]

Sorry, I was out of the country at the time. Just catching up (in a pretty jet-lagged manner). With rare exceptions, I don't personally think provocative names merit banning -- but if the content of the post is inappropriate, go for it.

If a word isn't allowed, don't you have the ability to just **** it automatically?

Nah....handles are fair game

 

[Mike Olbinski]

Sorry, I was out of the country at the time. Just catching up (in a pretty jet-lagged manner). With rare exceptions, I don't personally think provocative names merit banning -- but if the content of the post is inappropriate, go for it.

If a word isn't allowed, don't you have the ability to just **** it automatically?

Of course, but there is a P&R board, where that term is used in sentences that aren't the stuff we're trying to prevent on other boards.

 

[True Cards Fan]

My thoughts

I am a diehard Suns Fan and only a so-so Cards fan (my handle is sarcastic).

I check in with this forum frequently for info on my beloved Suns, but I hardly ever post. The reason I don't post is, well, it's just not really fun to post here. The moderators seem to be overly sensitive and many of you posters are kinda girly, complaining about every little thing.

You think any mild statement that isn't 100% pro-Suns is a form of trollism. I would be much more likely to post and participate if everybody would lighten up a little.

I am an active participant at a Utah Jazz forum

http://jazzfanz.com/boards/

I frequently post and I really enjoy being a part of it even though I'm a Suns fan. It's fun, it's interesting. The Jazz had a crappy year and it was still way more fun than this forum.

The moderators aren't as tight as here. The posters are a good, fun, intelligent group. They have welcomed me even though I am very pro-Suns. I criticize the Jazz when I feel like it and they respond. You can use words like Nazi in your threads (as long as you don't get too carried away). If you do, they might lock or edit a thread which usually pisses me off, but apparently not enough to start posting here.

Moderators and posters should check Jazzfanzz out and see what makes it such a great site and then we should all make this a great site.

I hoped I don't get banned for saying this, but if I do, so what?

 

[panfolk]

I think the idea behind this thread might be what's wrong with the Suns board. It gets awful elitist around here. I remember when I got excited about Pat Burke when I saw the Suns scrimmage on Suns.com before the season I got accused of drinking Kool-Aid because of it. That's just asinine. People get pretty darn snobby and think their reasoning is above and beyond the average fan. We don't need "better" posters we just need more fans and less trolls (i.e. the infestation of Lakers and Mavs antagonists that come by every so often). As far as the trolls go as long as they aren't getting racist or obscene or whatever I say just leave it to the individual to press the Ignore button when needed.
I'm not the smartest basketball mind around here by any stretch of the imagination but I am a reasonably intelligent person that puts thought into his posts and tries to be polite. I am shocked that I have gotten as much rudeness from the elite posters as I have and that I'm ignored by the bulk of the posters. I just try to have fun and stay positive and I got really really mad that I was accused of drinking Kool-Aid for it. Otherwise I think this board is pretty good and I am happy to post.
I miss Elindholm already. On the two occasions he tried to smack me down for assumed ignorance I replied in a way to show I thought he was being holier than thou and both times he softened his approach in his reply. A class act.

 

[panfolk]

Maybe an Around the League is a good idea...but would you have one for every type of sport?

Mike

If the other sports forums request it maybe. I think basketball needs it though.

 

[panfolk]

All things considered, I participate in this board because of its relative civility and educated posters. I do think everyone needs to grow thicker skin, and also be patient to infer whether a poster is being caustic or if there's some context merely missing in either the post or the interpretation.

My guess is the majority of the tiffs on this board start out as a misunderstanding.

I'm probably in the group that needs thicker skin but I think some statements are inflammatory by nature and can't be understood as an inside joke by a newcomer. For some reason I cannot let the Kool-Aid comments go. They seem so snarky and unwelcome. Everyone should watch the British original of Fever Pitch and then think twice before making positive people feel unwelcome for getting wrapped up in hopeful expectation. Yes, it is good to smack a delusional person in the face, but it should come from a friend most of the time not someone you barely met. I don't know. For some reason there is one enthusiastic poster I've put on ignore becasue his posts don't seem to have any content other than cheerleader stuff (figurative) but I never felt the need to call him out for it.

P.S. my three posts is because I can't figure out how to post different responses in one reply box... I'm not trying to innundate or pad my post count.