how does this team match up with the 93 team?

[sly fly]

Originally posted by Billythekid
Dick Enberg and Magic Johnson were going off there heads commentating game 5.

"My O My O My O My O My O... MY! Dan Majerle!"

Gotta love it!

It was indeed a beautiful thing.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by Billythekid
Classic Barkley Tash talking was when we played the Bulls in the reg season in 96. CB was just on FIRE! and was talking smack to Phil Jackson and Rodman all game long. He'd hit a shot and let Phil know all about it. Best game of the season by far. And he gave Rodman a few cheap shot elbows too.

that was the game where Barkely actually got the steal at the end of the game to seal it with a dunk wasn't it? If only he could have done that three years earlier.

 

[Billythekid]

Yeah that was the game!

Stole the inbound pass and finished with the MONSTER SLAM.

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by Forrestham
A fair comparison will come about 2-3 years from now. The 92-93 team hit its peak. Was a great team. Nobody could guard Jordan back then. The only advantage this team has is Marion over Dumas/Ced. Remember how good Dumas was for a short time. Reminded me of a young David Thompson.

I would love to see Amare and Barkley face each other in a simulated game

As good as Amare is, Barkley would eat him for dinner. Chuck just walked over people. There was no stopping him. Granted, other than rebounding, and an occasional block, he couldn't play defense, but still, he would just rip Stoudemire to pieces.

 

[scotsman13]

barkley had his worst game against anothe player that is a lot in common with amare. that is fast and tall. robert horry. while at this point i am not saying that amare is equal to horry in defense but the body is there to be everything that horry was on defense and the work ethic to be everything that barkley was on offense.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by scotsman13
barkley had his worst game against anothe player that is a lot in common with amare. that is fast and tall. robert horry. while at this point i am not saying that amare is equal to horry in defense but the body is there to be everything that horry was on defense and the work ethic to be everything that barkley was on offense.

Barkely was also in two consecutive series against Houston badly injured in the middle of both - first his back after we were up 2-0 and then his knee when he landed on someone's foot after an earth shattering Jam in Game 6 the next year where he had 27 points at the half and we were winning to clinch the series. Barkley would have abused Amare, put simply , because when healthy - he was the best power forward of all time - Scots - why no response to us undressing your memory of the 93 playoffs?

 

[scotsman13]

cheese, i am a big enough man to say that, i may have been mistaken about the finial play of that game as far as it was jordan or pippen that drove and ainge went to cut it off them off and opening up paxton.

but i will never post such a large load of **** on this board to say that a player who misses 5 open dunks in a game where they are not hurt is anything but a total waste on the court. chambers hurt the suns and cost the suns game 6. i have said that pre 92-93 chambers had a lot of value to the suns but during the seattle playoff games in 93 those games would never have gone to 7 if ceballos hadnt been hurt or someone beside chambers had been on the floor to miss 5 open dunks in game 6. that is like saying a player who is on the floor for 20 minutes and turns the ball over 5 times is a great player to have on the floor and i wont do it. i am a suns fan first and formost. i am not a barkley, kj, chambers or marbury fan before i am a suns fan. players move and going to other teams and i may enjoy watching for them i dont go to their message and post there, i dont spend hours going over all the draft picks trying to firgue out who they should take in the draft and i dont cheer for their team when they come to play the suns.

being a suns fan means that i am willing to see the players for what they are and not for their past glories. marjele during the 93 playoffs wasnt the defender that he was in the past. and chambers wasnt anywhere close to the scorer from anywhere that he had been in the pass. hype has made fans of these players bash trades made for them even when they were no where close to the player that they were before or even assign them past glories when there play did earn that glory. marjele made his name off from being great defender, and a dunker, later he was a good outside shooter, but the season before he was traded for a real center he shoot under 33% on 3's and was no longer the defender that he was. he was a 6'6" small forward at a spot where we had a number of good players manning and ced and when you have a chance to improve your team by trading a player at your strongest spot for one at your weakest you do it.

so now i have answered your question cheese are you willing to say that you that you give more credit to marjele, chambers or hardaway then what their play deserve at that time. marjele the great defender who couldnt defend jordan during the playoff of 93 and whos shooting % would drop like a rock in the coming years, chambers the great, who helped rebuild the team after the drugs days along with kj couldnt do what in the 93 playoffs, and hardaway was a 4 time allstar in orlando but he has never lived up to that in pheonix. at somepoint no matter how good a player was in the past you have to call them for what they are at that time? can you be big enough enough to say that?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by scotsman13


so now i have answered your question cheese are you willing to say that you that you give more credit to marjele, chambers or hardaway then what their play deserve at that time. marjele the great defender who couldnt defend jordan during the playoff of 93 and whos shooting % would drop like a rock in the coming years, chambers the great, who helped rebuild the team after the drugs days along with kj couldnt do what in the 93 playoffs, and hardaway was a 4 time allstar in orlando but he has never lived up to that in pheonix. at somepoint no matter how good a player was in the past you have to call them for what they are at that time? can you be big enough enough to say that?

Hey - if you read my post, I even called Majerle Blunder Dan the next two season in the playoffs - no question he dissapeared against the Rockets and everyone knows it - I was happy with the Hot Rod Trade because I was done with him choking in the playoffs - but to say that he wasn't the defender he was because Jordan - WHO WAS IN HIS PRIME - do you remember how much more dominant Jordan was in his prime than any other player the league has ever seen - ate him alive is ridiculous to me. Remember that Jordan laid 55 on KJ or 54 on the Knicks in the Conference Finals or his 40 point outing against the Cavs in a 4 game sweep prior to the Knicks series. The guy was unstoppable - even a Majerle defender in his prime couldn't handle Jordan - no one could. However, through those playoffs, two people carried us - Majerle and Barkely carried us to the Championship Series - I'll give Majerele no credit after that season, but to knock him for anything during that run is ludicrous.

As far as Chambers - yeah you can say if we had Ced that series doesn't go Seven - BUT WE DIDN'T HAVE HIM AND WE NEEDED SOMEONE ELSE TO STEP UP - Game 7 - that is exactly what Chambers did - did he miss a couple dunks -yes - but the old man was out there playing his heart out - past his prime and giving us everything he had - Was I happy when he got the ball stolen from him down two in Game 1 against the Lakers in 1993? Hell no - Did I say Chambers was great in the playoffs - Hell no - in fcat old TC used to make a living out of disappearing in the pre-Barkely post seasons - but to ignore the fact that he made any contributions to the 93 team is ridiculous as well.

As far as Hardaway - financially speaking - his contract is ridiculous - you'll never hear me say anything different - but when healthy - he has been a good influence on this team - You seem to see things in black and white - that's not the way the world is and certainly not the way basketball is. This team is worse off without Penny - we all saw that last year - have a little perspective man - nothing in this world is as cut and dried as you seem to be making it out to be.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Also - if you're talking about Game 6 of the Finals - no way in hell did Chambers miss five dunks - nice exaggeration there to make your point.

 

[scotsman13]

i am talking about game 6 in the western conf finals and yes it was 5 brake away open court dunks he missed in that game because i worked with a big seattle fan and the rest of the summer he would rub that in along with the lost to chicago. game 5 ced scored 23 before he broke his foot. ceballos is one of my all time fav suns i also got that rubbed in by that damn seattle fan.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by scotsman13
i am talking about game 6 in the western conf finals and yes it was 5 brake away open court dunks he missed in that game because i worked with a big seattle fan and the rest of the summer he would rub that in along with the lost to chicago. game 5 ced scored 23 before he broke his foot. ceballos is one of my all time fav suns i also got that rubbed in by that damn seattle fan.

does anyone else remember Chambers missing 5 "OPEN COURT BREAKAWAY DUNKS" in that game?

 

[elindholm]

does anyone else remember Chambers missing 5 "OPEN COURT BREAKAWAY DUNKS" in that game?

And more relevantly, who cares, since the Suns won that series?

I'm much more interested in how Chambers played throughout those playoffs, not how badly he might have sucked in one terrible game that ended up not mattering.

 

[sly fly]

Cheese, I'm glad you've taken the time to set some things straight in regards to that year. I saw everything you saw.

Tom Chambers could have missed 10 dunks in that game, but it would have never taken away to what he contributed to this franchise.

TC could barely touch his toes, but he sucked it up... took a back seat to Barkley... and delivered when called upon. With TC carrying around a Texas-size ego, that had to be tough to do.

6'10" white man who could run the floor, throw one down on your head, pull up shoot the 3, get fouled, laugh at you, and argue with the ref all at the same time. What a freak.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by sly fly
Cheese, I'm glad you've taken the time to set some things straight in regards to that year. I saw everything you saw.

Tom Chambers could have missed 10 dunks in that game, but it would have never taken away to what he contributed to this franchise.

TC could barely touch his toes, but he sucked it up... took a back seat to Barkley... and delivered when called upon. With TC carrying around a Texas-size ego, that had to be tough to do.

6'10" white man who could run the floor, throw one down on your head, pull up shoot the 3, get fouled, laugh at you, and argue with the ref all at the same time. What a freak.

I just remember a reverse dunk that Chambers had on the baseline in Game 6 of the Finals in the first half with Charles looking up at the heaven's afterwards - ******* it felt like we wre going to win that game! That Chambers last great moment.

 

[Espo]

i think comparing Amare to Horry is a complete insult. Horry is no better then a role player. That is all he is going to be remembered as. Amare has the chance to be a great one. But we all know that potential is the biggest four letter word in sports. Anyone remember Richard *******, oops i mean Dumas.

 

[Espo]

Quote previous post is to:
barkley had his worst game against anothe player that is a lot in common with amare. that is fast and tall. robert horry. while at this point i am not saying that amare is equal to horry in defense but the body is there to be everything that horry was on defense and the work ethic to be everything that barkley was on offense.


__________________

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by PHX Phan
i think comparing Amare to Horry is a complete insult. Horry is no better then a role player. That is all he is going to be remembered as. Amare has the chance to be a great one. But we all know that potential is the biggest four letter word in sports. Anyone remember Richard *******, oops i mean Dumas.

You are absolutely right. Amare and Horry are about as different as two players can be. I honestly can not find a single similarity between those two guys.

 

[scotsman13]

i wasnt comparing amare as a player to horry, besides the fact that he was fast and tall. let me repleat that for some of you who choose not to read or open your minds ......... fast and tall. it was just horry, it was campbell with the lakers, it was anyone who was 6'10 and above and fast. barkley would have trouble with me like this that tried to defend him they did a very good job on him.



now lets see is amare 6'10 and is that the same height as horry? well yes it is. is amare fast? yes he is, he maybe the fastest power forward in the nba. was horry fast? yes he spent most of his early career as a small forward and did a very good job there. now in those areas like i said amare is like horry.

another player that is a lot in common with amare. that is fast and tall. robert horry. while at this point i am not saying that amare is equal to horry in defense but the body is there to be everything that horry was on defense and the work ethic to be everything that barkley was on offense.

amare has much better work ethic then horry, amare is much stronger then horry, amare is much smarter then horry, and must important amare has a drive to be the best in the game. but horry was a very good defender, and we can hope that amare will reach that point. but amare is a clutch shooter and can even hit the 3, like horry, and he has the mind set to be a defender, again like horry. barkley on the hand was a smart player who was a great offensive player, but who would play little defense. personally i would like to see amare take something from both of their games. offense from barkley and defense from horry.

 

[cheng]

Originally posted by scotsman13


now lets see is amare 6'10 and is that the same height as horry? well yes it is. is amare fast? yes he is, he maybe the fastest power forward in the nba. was horry fast? yes he spent most of his early career as a small forward and did a very good job there. now in those areas like i said amare is like horry.

amare has much better work ethic then horry, amare is much stronger then horry, amare is much smarter then horry, and must important amare has a drive to be the best in the game. but horry was a very good defender, and we can hope that amare will reach that point. but amare is a clutch shooter and can even hit the 3, like horry, and he has the mind set to be a defender, again like horry. barkley on the hand was a smart player who was a great offensive player, but who would play little defense. personally i would like to see amare take something from both of their games. offense from barkley and defense from horry.

Isn't Dan Langhi 6'10 and quite fast for his size as well? Amare is a PF and you stated Horry is a SF. You are comparing apple to orange.

A young Barkley was a much much better defender than Horry. He was one of the best defensive rebounder and he used to chase guards from behind for 40 feet to block fastbreak layup.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Amare is a clutch shooter and can even hit the three like Horry. Scotsman - are you serious? Hey I was just as stupidifiedly happy when Amare banked that shot in but by no means does that mean he is the shooter and clutch player Horry was. You talk about us opening our eyes - you keep putting up ludicrous comments up here which appear to be made with your eyes shut because the only the way what you say makes a sense is if you're dreaming.

 

[scotsman13]

cheese did you watch the spurs game? where he made the shoot that sent the game into overtime? do you understand he was willing to take that shoot with 20/400 vision in one eye? do you understand that he shot 2 for 10 last year with 20/400 in one eye and 20/40 in the another but this kid still took it and made it. the single biggest step to being a clutch player is the willingness to do whatever it takes when the game is on the line. if you dont call that clutch then their is no should thing as clutch. i am not saying at this point in his career that amare is a knock'em down 3 point shooter but he is a clutch shooter who can count on to do what it takes when it count. i would still give the ball to marbury right now first, but i wouldnt have a problem with amare taking a last second shoot with the game on the line.


cheng, langhi wasnt a stiff but i would think he would have been about googs speed before he hurt his knee, but that wouldnt have been the quickness that you see i horry at that time and no where close to amares today.

barkley once said if you want me to play defence you are going to have to pay me another million dollars a year. this was in 92 when his salery was something like 2-3 million. that should give you a idea on the type of defender that barkley was. now barkley was one of best rebounders where defensive or offensive in the nba.

 

[Chaplin]

Gee, you do realize that Amare had no choice but to take that shot? He had no time to try to pass it, so he just tossed it up. If you think he made that shot under control and totally calm, you are terribly mistaken.

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by cheng

A young Barkley was a much much better defender than Horry. He was one of the best defensive rebounder and he used to chase guards from behind for 40 feet to block fastbreak layup.

I got to disagree on this one. Barkley could rebound, and block a shot here and there. For the most part, he never really played D.
He could when he really wanted to, but Horry took much more pride in his defense than Barkley.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
I got to disagree on this one. Barkley could rebound, and block a shot here and there. For the most part, he never really played D.
He could when he really wanted to, but Horry took much more pride in his defense than Barkley.

I agree here as well. Bark may have gotten the highlight block everyone and a while, but defense wasn't his true calling - I mean come on - anyone who uses that back-up move - is both smart and lazy as a defender - it was a good move Bark used to make, but hardly would I call him the defensive player that Horry was.

As far as Scotsman response - so he made 2/10 during the season - wasn't one of them from half-court? And his shot against the Spurs was a prayer - we all know it - it banked it for heaven's sake - in no way has Amare even come close to demonstrating that he can he even take threes yet, let alone make hem. However, I do agree with you on one point you made - Clutch players want the ball, Clutch players take the shots and Clutch players keep shooting - I saw that in Amare and that is why I believe he will be the best power forward in NBA history one day - however, that day is far away right now and he still needs to work on his game, jumper and ball-handling skills before that happens.

You go on and on about how we over-state some of our former players giving them too much props for stuff they had done in this past - well ain't that the pot calling the kettle black considering you are projecting futurism onto Amare when he hasn't even proved he can do what you've said he could. Give him time before you start saying that right now he can shoot threes and defend like Horry.

 

[scotsman13]

cheese, you are right maybe i am giving amare to much credit just a little to soon. i guess what i am trying to say is that all the tools are there for amare to be one of the all time best power forwards in the nba.

now i will try to clear up something.

i think that chamber was a great player.

i think that marjele was a great player.

i think that hardaway was a great player.

what i am saying is that these players are carrying the credit over from when they were better to times when they were not the players that they were. chambers at the end of the 93 season wasnt the player he had been just a couple or even a year before. i will never say that chambers had no value overall, i am saying that at that time he should have been benched in hopes that the suns could have gotten better production off someone else. that by the time marjele was traded he was no longer the player he was even in 92-93. and that hardaway today isnt the allstar player that he was in orlando. the future is brite and i guess i would like to see the younger players like jj and zarko get time over googs and penny. i can only see these guys growing while others have reached their peak and are starting down, or as someone else put it they have jumped the shark.


now here is something of a prediction. googs will not be traded before his contract is out. What? why the suns can get a lot for him? because jc promised him that he wouldnt trade him. and i believe that jc will live up to his word unless googs ask for a trade.