How Great is the 2017 draft class?

[slinslin]

And he is pretty decent passer for a forward and makes smart off the ball cuts to get open. He has good basketball instincts.

 

[Russ Smith]

He's shooting 39% from 3. He's not Steph Curry, but I think there's a good chance he develops into at least an average shooter to go along with explosive athleticism.

he's not a bad shooter but 48% overall, 69 from the FT line he's not a great shooter for his size. He's going to have to be a 3 at the next level, he's athletic enough but not really a good enough shooter right now and he's very lazy with the ball 64 turnovers in 826 minutes is a ton of turnovers for a guy who's not a ballhandler at all.

Freak athlete though. Depends where you pick I'd take him later in the first round but I'd be hesitant to take him top 20.

And who is this Steph Curry you refer to the guy can't make a 3 to save his life recently!

 

[devilalum]

If the Suns draft Ball can our crazy legislature pass a law prohibiting his dad from entering the state?

from phone

 

[slinslin]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18901427/lavar-ball-seeks-combined-1-billion-shoe-deal-three-sons

 

[SirStefan32]

That dude is legitimately insane.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

he's not a bad shooter but 48% overall, 69 from the FT line he's not a great shooter for his size. He's going to have to be a 3 at the next level, he's athletic enough but not really a good enough shooter right now and he's very lazy with the ball 64 turnovers in 826 minutes is a ton of turnovers for a guy who's not a ballhandler at all.

Freak athlete though. Depends where you pick I'd take him later in the first round but I'd be hesitant to take him top 20.

And who is this Steph Curry you refer to the guy can't make a 3 to save his life recently!

Yeah, maybe he is a better three point shooter than Steph Curry. Hahaha. Clearly, Seth is the one in that family with the talent!

Bridges is really tough to predict because he is a classic tweener. I think he could be a really effective 4 in today's NBA, but he would be a lot more valuable to the Suns if he develops primarily as a 3. It's a gamble, but if he progresses quickly then look out.

An encouraging sign:

Though turnovers have been a huge issue for him all season, he is averaging only 1.0 turnover per game over the last six contests, which has included some really good competition.

 

[slinslin]

guess my big board would look something like this right now

1. Markelle Fultz (DX#1) - love him
2. Jayson Tatum (DX#4) - love him
3. Dennis Smith (DX#6) - has everything
4. Lonzo Ball (DX#2) - not a real believer that he is the next Jason Kidd
5. Josh Jackson (DX#3) - think he is closer to the next MKG than allstar talent
6. Malik Monk (DX#8) - probably should be higher and I underrate him because he is a bad fit for us
7. Lauri Markkanen (DX#7) - high floor but I think low ceiling, maybe should put him lower
8. De'aaron Fox (DX#5) - like him but I don't think it would be worth moving Bledsoe to have Fox
9. Jonathan Isaac (DX#9) - not a fan of the lanky tweener type, Isaac reminds me of Ingram in a bad way
10. Miles Bridges (DX#12) - upside
11. Caleb Swanigan (DX#29) - monster production, undersized but great wingspan
12. Robert Williams (DX#10) - athletic power forward
13. Harry Giles (DX#25) - I like him because the talent to draft position ratio will be insane, he is a gamble. Wouldn't draft him at #13 though.
14. Allonzo Trier (DX#35 2018) - liked him last year as a late first, he only got better
----------------------
15. Terrance Ferguson(DX#14) - hard to judge since he went to Australia instead of Arizona, he is a gamble on talent
16. Frank Ntilikina (DX#11) - raw, does not finish well, does not really know how to run an offense
17. Ivan Rabb (DX#22) - high floor solid player ala PJ Brown
18. Justin Patton (DX#16) - center project with talent
19. Bam Adebayo (DX#27)- center project with great physical talent
20. Jarrett Allen (DX#7 2018) - center project with talent

The thing for me is that I would not draft NCAA center prospect highly anymore unless they are monsters (a healthy Embiid eg) and expected to be impact player immediately. These project centers are so hard to determine who will actually develop and you are likely hitting RFA with your center pick still developing.

Also Europe produces a lot of decent center prospects that are often for some reason undervalued and found later that have been great value relative to draft position (Jokic, Zubac, Zizic, Nurkic, Capela etc)


I would actually consider Tatum #1 if he continues to play strong in the tournament.

After Trier it gets iffy for me. I know some Suns fans love to hype Ntilikina but I bet they have never seen him play. He is a highly rated prospect simply because of physical tools. He is a turnover machine who does not know how to run an offense yet and he struggles to finish in the paint. He is a huge project and very unlikely to ever be the passing maestro that Suns fans envision.

Was contemplating John Collins, Isaiah Hartenstein or OG Aunoby at 20 but ultimately I want neither.

John Collins may be unfair because he is a very productive sophomore power forward averaging 19/10 but 3 years ago he measured with a wingspan of 6'8 at 6'7 heigh without shoes. So it will come down to measurements but assuming his arms did not grow more than his body he is probably a shade under 6'10 with a 6'10 wingspan. That is short for a power forward.

OG Anunoby just too raw, the injury, terrible shooter just too much of a project for my taste.

Hartenstein, same thing huge project and still immature. I want to like him but not a good idea.

 

[Russ Smith]

That dude is legitimately insane.

He is becoming a distraction that's for sure. LeBron is worth a billion but 3 sons one of which is a guarantee to be a first round draft pick is NOT worth a billion.

 

[JCSunsfan]

He is becoming a distraction that's for sure. LeBron is worth a billion but 3 sons one of which is a guarantee to be a first round draft pick is NOT worth a billion.

Its not even about that. Its about the fact that this is not HIS income, its his son's. I don't care how much my kids make, I am not going to live off of them (at least not until dementia starts).

Lonzo needs to dump his dad.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Its not even about that. Its about the fact that this is not HIS income, its his son's. I don't care how much my kids make, I am not going to live off of them (at least not until dementia starts).

Lonzo needs to dump his dad.

That's the fourth time this week you've told us that!

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

guess my big board would look something like this right now

1. Markelle Fultz (DX#1) - love him
2. Jayson Tatum (DX#4) - love him
3. Dennis Smith (DX#6) - has everything
4. Lonzo Ball (DX#2) - not a real believer that he is the next Jason Kidd
5. Josh Jackson (DX#3) - think he is closer to the next MKG than allstar talent
6. Malik Monk (DX#8) - probably should be higher and I underrate him because he is a bad fit for us
7. Lauri Markkanen (DX#7) - high floor but I think low ceiling, maybe should put him lower
8. De'aaron Fox (DX#5) - like him but I don't think it would be worth moving Bledsoe to have Fox
9. Jonathan Isaac (DX#9) - not a fan of the lanky tweener type, Isaac reminds me of Ingram in a bad way
10. Miles Bridges (DX#12) - upside
11. Caleb Swanigan (DX#29) - monster production, undersized but great wingspan
12. Robert Williams (DX#10) - athletic power forward
13. Harry Giles (DX#25) - I like him because the talent to draft position ratio will be insane, he is a gamble. Wouldn't draft him at #13 though.
14. Allonzo Trier (DX#35 2018) - liked him last year as a late first, he only got better
----------------------
15. Terrance Ferguson(DX#14) - hard to judge since he went to Australia instead of Arizona, he is a gamble on talent
16. Frank Ntilikina (DX#11) - raw, does not finish well, does not really know how to run an offense
17. Ivan Rabb (DX#22) - high floor solid player ala PJ Brown
18. Justin Patton (DX#16) - center project with talent
19. Bam Adebayo (DX#27)- center project with great physical talent
20. Jarrett Allen (DX#7 2018) - center project with talent

The thing for me is that I would not draft NCAA center prospect highly anymore unless they are monsters (a healthy Embiid eg) and expected to be impact player immediately. These project centers are so hard to determine who will actually develop and you are likely hitting RFA with your center pick still developing.

Also Europe produces a lot of decent center prospects that are often for some reason undervalued and found later that have been great value relative to draft position (Jokic, Zubac, Zizic, Nurkic, Capela etc)


I would actually consider Tatum #1 if he continues to play strong in the tournament.

After Trier it gets iffy for me. I know some Suns fans love to hype Ntilikina but I bet they have never seen him play. He is a highly rated prospect simply because of physical tools. He is a turnover machine who does not know how to run an offense yet and he struggles to finish in the paint. He is a huge project and very unlikely to ever be the passing maestro that Suns fans envision.

Was contemplating John Collins, Isaiah Hartenstein or OG Aunoby at 20 but ultimately I want neither.

John Collins may be unfair because he is a very productive sophomore power forward averaging 19/10 but 3 years ago he measured with a wingspan of 6'8 at 6'7 heigh without shoes. So it will come down to measurements but assuming his arms did not grow more than his body he is probably a shade under 6'10 with a 6'10 wingspan. That is short for a power forward.

OG Anunoby just too raw, the injury, terrible shooter just too much of a project for my taste.

Hartenstein, same thing huge project and still immature. I want to like him but not a good idea.

The more I see from the top players in this draft the more confident I am in Fultz and Tatum being all star level talents in the NBA. I see the potential for that with some of the other guys, but I am 100% confident that those 2 will be that good.

 

[Ronin]

Jeremy Cluff‏@Jeremy_Cluff 15m15 minutes ago
The #Suns currently have a 15.7 percent chance at landing the No. 1 pick in the #NBAdraft.

 

[Yuma]

Jeremy Cluff‏@Jeremy_Cluff 15m15 minutes ago
The #Suns currently have a 15.7 percent chance at landing the No. 1 pick in the #NBAdraft.

That's why I am so desperate we keep the third pick. I believe the numbers go WAY down from spots 4 on down.

 

[SirStefan32]

That's the fourth time this week you've told us that!

HA!

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

guess my big board would look something like this right now

1. Markelle Fultz (DX#1) - love him
2. Jayson Tatum (DX#4) - love him
3. Dennis Smith (DX#6) - has everything
4. Lonzo Ball (DX#2) - not a real believer that he is the next Jason Kidd
5. Josh Jackson (DX#3) - think he is closer to the next MKG than allstar talent
6. Malik Monk (DX#8) - probably should be higher and I underrate him because he is a bad fit for us
7. Lauri Markkanen (DX#7) - high floor but I think low ceiling, maybe should put him lower
8. De'aaron Fox (DX#5) - like him but I don't think it would be worth moving Bledsoe to have Fox
9. Jonathan Isaac (DX#9) - not a fan of the lanky tweener type, Isaac reminds me of Ingram in a bad way
10. Miles Bridges (DX#12) - upside
11. Caleb Swanigan (DX#29) - monster production, undersized but great wingspan
12. Robert Williams (DX#10) - athletic power forward
13. Harry Giles (DX#25) - I like him because the talent to draft position ratio will be insane, he is a gamble. Wouldn't draft him at #13 though.
14. Allonzo Trier (DX#35 2018) - liked him last year as a late first, he only got better
----------------------
15. Terrance Ferguson(DX#14) - hard to judge since he went to Australia instead of Arizona, he is a gamble on talent
16. Frank Ntilikina (DX#11) - raw, does not finish well, does not really know how to run an offense
17. Ivan Rabb (DX#22) - high floor solid player ala PJ Brown
18. Justin Patton (DX#16) - center project with talent
19. Bam Adebayo (DX#27)- center project with great physical talent
20. Jarrett Allen (DX#7 2018) - center project with talent

The thing for me is that I would not draft NCAA center prospect highly anymore unless they are monsters (a healthy Embiid eg) and expected to be impact player immediately. These project centers are so hard to determine who will actually develop and you are likely hitting RFA with your center pick still developing.

Also Europe produces a lot of decent center prospects that are often for some reason undervalued and found later that have been great value relative to draft position (Jokic, Zubac, Zizic, Nurkic, Capela etc)


I would actually consider Tatum #1 if he continues to play strong in the tournament.

After Trier it gets iffy for me. I know some Suns fans love to hype Ntilikina but I bet they have never seen him play. He is a highly rated prospect simply because of physical tools. He is a turnover machine who does not know how to run an offense yet and he struggles to finish in the paint. He is a huge project and very unlikely to ever be the passing maestro that Suns fans envision.

Was contemplating John Collins, Isaiah Hartenstein or OG Aunoby at 20 but ultimately I want neither.

John Collins may be unfair because he is a very productive sophomore power forward averaging 19/10 but 3 years ago he measured with a wingspan of 6'8 at 6'7 heigh without shoes. So it will come down to measurements but assuming his arms did not grow more than his body he is probably a shade under 6'10 with a 6'10 wingspan. That is short for a power forward.

OG Anunoby just too raw, the injury, terrible shooter just too much of a project for my taste.

Hartenstein, same thing huge project and still immature. I want to like him but not a good idea.

Great post! Thank you for your thoughts. This would be my top 20 as of now:

1. Lonzo Ball - I love the way he plays, and I think he will be special in the NBA. I also think he would be a great fit with Booker.
2. Josh Jackson - He could be an amazing fit for the Suns and I think he does all the little things you need while having more offensive upside than Winslow or MKG.
3. Jayson Tatum - He has grown on me a lot; seems to be improving by the minute.
4. Markelle Fultz - The talent is undeniable.
5. Jonathan Isaac - Recent struggles have me concerned. I agree on the Ingram comparisons, but I still love his upside.
6. Malik Monk - Not a perfect fit for us, but a real talent.
7. Miles Bridges - This is probably too high for him, but I love to watch him play.
8. Lauri Markkanen - Feels a bit redundant with Chriss and Bender as a stretch big.
9. De'Aaron Fox - Tons of talent, but not sure I like him more than Bledsoe.
10. Robert Williams - I like his defensive upside.
11. Dennis Smith - This is probably far too low, but I don't see him changing the things that already concern me with Bledsoe.
12. Harry Giles - Why not swing for the fences?
13. Frank Ntilikina - I'm not blown away by what I've seen on offense, but I like his potential to add something on defense as his offensive game develops. Not sure I want a point guard unless it's one of the top 2.
14. Jarret Allen
15. Zach Collins
16. Justin Patton - All three are developmental bigs with a chance of eventually panning out.
17. OG Anunoby - With Booker as our SGOF, I place high value on developing a SF with shutdown defensive upside.
18. Mikal Bridges - Same.
19. Allonzo Trier - Has looked amazing recently.
20. Caleb Swanigan - Has looked amazing all year.


I completely agree on centers, by the way. I wouldn't be thrilled about spending a high pick on one. There is a pretty big group of bigs with high upside and low floors though; I think this might be the perfect draft to take a shot at a developmental center high in the second round

 

[JCSunsfan]

That's the fourth time this week you've told us that!

??? First time, I think.


Kiiiiiiids? Do you still have that extra room?!!!!

 

[AzStevenCal]

??? First time, I think.

Had I not been so exhausted I probably would have self-censored instead of indulging in a joke that many might consider to be in poor taste. Still, I laughed as I typed it.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Great post! Thank you for your thoughts. This would be my top 20 as of now:

1. Lonzo Ball - I love the way he plays, and I think he will be special in the NBA. I also think he would be a great fit with Booker.
2. Josh Jackson - He could be an amazing fit for the Suns and I think he does all the little things you need while having more offensive upside than Winslow or MKG.
3. Jayson Tatum - He has grown on me a lot; seems to be improving by the minute.
4. Markelle Fultz - The talent is undeniable.
5. Jonathan Isaac - Recent struggles have me concerned. I agree on the Ingram comparisons, but I still love his upside.
6. Malik Monk - Not a perfect fit for us, but a real talent.
7. Miles Bridges - This is probably too high for him, but I love to watch him play.
8. Lauri Markkanen - Feels a bit redundant with Chriss and Bender as a stretch big.
9. De'Aaron Fox - Tons of talent, but not sure I like him more than Bledsoe.
10. Robert Williams - I like his defensive upside.
11. Dennis Smith - This is probably far too low, but I don't see him changing the things that already concern me with Bledsoe.
12. Harry Giles - Why not swing for the fences?
13. Frank Ntilikina - I'm not blown away by what I've seen on offense, but I like his potential to add something on defense as his offensive game develops. Not sure I want a point guard unless it's one of the top 2.
14. Jarret Allen
15. Zach Collins
16. Justin Patton - All three are developmental bigs with a chance of eventually panning out.
17. OG Anunoby - With Booker as our SGOF, I place high value on developing a SF with shutdown defensive upside.
18. Mikal Bridges - Same.
19. Allonzo Trier - Has looked amazing recently.
20. Caleb Swanigan - Has looked amazing all year.


I completely agree on centers, by the way. I wouldn't be thrilled about spending a high pick on one. There is a pretty big group of bigs with high upside and low floors though; I think this might be the perfect draft to take a shot at a developmental center high in the second round

Ok. I will take a shot. This is not how I think the draft should go, it would be the Suns board.

1. Lonzo Ball. Worthy of a #1 pick, great fit with the team. Cringe when thinking about Dad, but that seems a bad reason to not draft him.
2. Markelle Fultz. The lack of winning scares me, but you have to take him.
3. Josh Jackson. All around player, good passer, great fit.
4. Jayson Tatum. Nice consolation prize if you cannot get Jackson.
5. Jonathan Isaac. Really scares me he is so skinny.
6. Lauri Markkanen--This year's Sabonis. Low ceiling, high floor player.

If its not one of these, I would rather trade the pick. I would love to take a shot at Harry Giles, but not with a high pick.

 

[slinslin]

Sabonis has not shown a high floor however, he is not even a good rookie.

I cant understand how people can honestly have Ball #1. If his shooting numbers dont translate which is likely, if he is a bad shooter he wont ever be a top 10 PG no matter almost how good he is at everything else.

Ricky Rubio is great at everything, passing, defending, steals, good rebounder, floor general etc but he can't shoot and despite all his skills isnt even a top 15 PG in the league.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Sabonis has not shown a high floor however, he is not even a good rookie.

I cant understand how people can honestly have Ball #1. If his shooting numbers dont translate which is likely, if he is a bad shooter he wont ever be a top 10 PG no matter almost how good he is at everything else.

Ricky Rubio is great at everything, passing, defending, steals, good rebounder, floor general etc but he can't shoot and despite all his skills isnt even a top 15 PG in the league.

I think it's because you are certain his shot will not translate while others may view that as nothing more than an assumption. Yes, he has a bizarre release, but it hasn't hurt him so far. He's also tall and athletic. I think there is a better chance than not that his shooting translates.

And he is an UNBELIEVABLY EFFECTIVE shooter in college. He shoots over 54% from the field and 41% from 3. His effective field goal percentage is off the charts!

 

[slinslin]

That is only because he is very selective and doesnt score much. When you completely avoid taking midrange shots of course the 2pt% will be high when its made up of 95% at the rim.

His shooting mechanics have definitely hurt him already. He cant shoot off the dribble really which is an important skill for PGs.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm liking Josh Jackson or Jayson Tatum for the Suns. If the Suns should get the 1st or 2nd pick, I wouldn't be surprised if they flipped draft picks to get one of these players plus a first round draft pick or some other asset.

 

[slinslin]

You cant trade down for these players. Tatum is rising, no way he does not go top 4.

He has been the best player over the last month and imo clearly the best fit for the Suns. In my opinion the most complete player in this draft aside of maybe Fultz.

I can see him play with either Chriss and Warren as a forward combo. Tatum looks legit 6'9.

 

[Mainstreet]

You cant trade down for these players. Tatum is rising, no way he does not go top 4.

I'm talking about like drafting Ball or Fultz then flipping the pick with another team in the 4 range who drafts Jackson or Tatum for us. They would have to make it worthwhile.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Sabonis has not shown a high floor however, he is not even a good rookie.

I cant understand how people can honestly have Ball #1. If his shooting numbers dont translate which is likely, if he is a bad shooter he wont ever be a top 10 PG no matter almost how good he is at everything else.

Ricky Rubio is great at everything, passing, defending, steals, good rebounder, floor general etc but he can't shoot and despite all his skills isnt even a top 15 PG in the league.

I do not know why his shooting numbers would not translate. I think its an illogical assumption.