How hard would it be to trade up?

[Goldfield]

I really think this team is afew good bigmen away from being very good.

With some capspace this summer, we have a legitimate shot at solid center be it Camby or Dampier. (one of those are a MUST IMO)


With 2-3 first round draft picks we should beable to trade up and get Okafor. He is the rebounding/shotblocking bug guy we need. He can backup Amare, and also play some center.

These are the two guys we need.


With 2-3 draft picks and guys like Jacobsen/White/Lampe we should beable to find a trade to snag Okafor...

 

[elindholm]

With some capspace this summer, we have a legitimate shot at solid center be it Camby or Dampier. (one of those are a MUST IMO)

Both of those are an invitation to disaster.

Camby will never be healthy for more than a few months at a time. This is his healthiest season so far, but he is still missing odd games here and there with hamstring pulls and so forth. It will just get worse as the season goes on, not better.

Dampier has had two good seasons in his career and many more bad ones. Sinking a lot of money into a player who is that inconsistent is really asking for trouble.

 

[Goldfield]

I understand that, but we cant just go on playing without a center...

Little Jake has play pretty good, but he still isnt the answer.


I am tired of injuryprone players also. But Center is a position that might be the only one worth it...

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Am I the only one on here to think that Voskuhl might be used as potential trade-bait?

I dont know what true market (redeemable) value he would have, but with the potential of the Suns acquiring a "big man" either via the draft or FA and with Zarko, Lampe, and Amare in the mix....How many minutes would Voskuhl be able to play? He's not much of a scorer nor does he obviously rebound or block shots with any great proficiency.....

If he's on the Suns roster next season, he would pretty much be regulated to the role of Googs, just play spotty minutes and probably be used as an extra body to commit fouls on other big men in the league..... If he could be somehow packaged along w/White, then definitely go for it.....

 

[slinslin]

It depends on the picks order in the top 5.

For the Suns it would probably be

#1-2 = Okafor or Howard
#3 Smith
#4-6 don't look all that exciting right now but before the draft guys like Telfair might shoot up the rankings.

If the Bulls get a top 2 pick it is not a sure thing that they want that pick because they need a 2/3 much more than a big guy.

So the Suns could probably swap #3 for #2 if that was the order just like the Carter for Jamison swap a few years ago.

Orlando will almost definately want to go big, Washington is a wild card but I would guess that they are looking at big guys and Atlanta is likely hot for Howard since he is from Atlanta but maybe also Smith who is also from GA.

Basically the Suns should still go for the best player available and fill the open needs with FAs or trades. I am glad there are so many highschoolers in the draft because it will make the draft deeper and scouting more important.
The Suns showed they won't shy away from a talented highschool kid. They could steal someone later in the draft with the Knicks/Cavs pick.
If they get the Cavs pick I think they need to look at trading Jacobsen and maybe replace him in the draft. A guy like Luke Jackson is very similiar to Casey but much better all around guy.

I mean if Smith looks really really good you might want to pick him anyway and move Marion and move someone else soon.


I don't think Voshkul will be traded. He is cheap, brings a good attitude. Every team needs a guy like that even if he is hardly playing. He is to the Suns what Mark Madsen is to the Wolves and was to Lakers.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Well, if we get either Camby or Dampier, dont count on them playing over 30 minutes a night........


That would still give Jake 18 minutes at the 5 spot.



BTW, there isn't a big man in the FA market worth throwing a ton of money at. Would Camby be nice? Of course, but why tie in more long term money into the most injury prone player in the league. I thought this was the summer we got rid of all those problems.......

 

[scotsman13]

i personally dont think that 6'9" okafor is the answer for this team at center or even back up power forward (zarko will get that time).

here is one scouting report on him.
Emeka Okafor--PF--6'9''--246--Connecticut--Junior

Strengths: A SUPERB shot-blocker, great timing, almost unreal, alters a shot at times without even blocking it, has great position when he boxes out… great post moves, has several of them, a big post presence, good hook shot, can finish well, has an NBA body… great hustle, very aggressive, strong body, uses his size to his advantage… can run the floor, has good free-throw-line-to-free-throw-line quickness, great for blocking shots, excellent footwork…good leadership, great work ethic, listens to his coaches at all times…

Weaknesses: Poor shooter, he can’t shoot free throws, has limited offensive skills outside the post… can’t handle the ball, not a great passer, doesn’t have the versatility of playing more than one position…

 

[slinslin]

Because he hasn't been injured this season really and plays full contact in the West.

And he is very talented. It is not like we would give him a long big contract that will tie our hands in the future since we will still be clearly below the luxury tax.

This is not like signing Penny. Our problem the last 2 years was having 2 consistantly injured max players while we had one of the highest payrolls in the league.
Camby would just put us near or over the cap and we could still use our MLE the next seasons and the insurance would cover his salary in case of injury.

- Draft Dwight Howard if he is really close to 6'11 and play him behind Camby and Amare. Dwight was on TV lately and a lot of people compared his athleticism and also body to Amare.

- Sign Camby to a 4yr deal/30M$

- When Howard's rookie contract is up and his extension kicks in Camby will be off of the cap already.

Btw, Zarko at PF? Maybe, Maybe. I see Lampe at PF more likely but neither would honestly stop Okafor from getting playing time.

 

[scotsman13]

Zarko at power forward is nothing more shocking then dick or garrnett playing power forward. most power forwards dont like going outside to guard someone and very few would be able to match up with zarkos ball handling. i would be much more open to taking howard over okator. howard at 6'11" is closer to being able play center in the long run based on size then okator. amare will be getting at least 38 minutes a game in the coming years, that only leaves 10 minutes for any other back up power forwards. so if zarko can get some time there with back up time at small forward we are looking at him getting around 20 minutes per game. that fixes both power forward and small forward with playing time. now if you are able to get lampe to be a high post center along with jake and a draft pick then you are going to round that spot out really well.

 

[slinslin]

I must say I am really excited about our 1-2 picks in the 15-17 range even if New York makes the playoffs.

There are so many young kids with lot of potential that might fall down the rankings before the draft and we can definately take a chance with the later two picks.
Or they could shoot up the rankings and make the draft really strong and deep.
Some teams will also not have the inside track on some of those young guys because a lot will be determined in private workouts and the Suns having up to 3 picks will likely get a lot of guys in for workouts.
Especially with a top 3 pick they will be able to work out the top prospects that might fall out of the top 3 and other guys will pass up on them because they didn't work out for them.

Guys like Josh Smith, Sebasitan Telfair, LaMarcus Aldridge, Randolph Morris, Shaun Livingston, Al Jefferson, Hakim Warrick, Andre Iguodala, Kris Humphries some of them should definately be still on the board.

Smith
- No question about talent but some teams will shy away from highschool picks and some need guys who can play right away

Telfair
- Nobody drafted a highschool PG so far, he will have his doubters but most likely shoot up the rankings before the draft

Randolph Morris
- Definately impressed against Howard on national TV. If he is a true 7' 260lbs at just 18yrs old he should definately go top 20.

Al Jefferson
- Ridiculous high school numbers but against weak highschool competition. His draft ranking will likely be determined by his size.
57pts 16reb 12blk, 48/12/12 in 3quarters, 30 points 18 rebounds and 26 blocks, and averaging 37/18/6 over the season is just ridiculous.

Hakim Warrick
- Is already falling down the ladder from top5 pick to non-lottery and probably will be drafted mid first round when people start questioning his ability to shoot.

Andre Iguodala
- Could have some of the same problems as Warrick when they question his shooting and just look at averages.

Kris Humphries
- Huge numbers as a freshman but his size might make him a 6th man for his entire career. A more athletic Rodney Rogers maybe although they compare him to Googs.

Shaun Livingston
- Don't really have an opinion on him yet but I am not a believer in those 6'7 PGs like Jeryl Sasser, Reece Gaines etc.

LaMarcus Aldridge
- Will also be determined by the pre-draft measurements.

----

nbadraft.net has Luke Jackson as a 2nd round pick right now. Too bad we don't have one though Luke Jackson would definately get first round consideration from me as well.

Darius Rice is ranked right where we would pick right now. I remember wanting him to declare in the last 2 drafts but he hasn't fullfilled his potential yet and is a senior.

Luke Jackson
6'7 Senior Oregon
22.2ppg 7.0rpg 4.8apg 1.2spg 51%FG 47%3s 87%FTs

Those are really really good numbers.

PS: I realize almost all of this is based on some video footage, hearsay, reports from other guys, newspapers, statistics and personal opinion but it servered me pretty well in the last drafts.

 

[slinslin]

Originally posted by scotsman13
Zarko at power forward is nothing more shocking then dick or garrnett playing power forward. most power forwards dont like going outside to guard someone and very few would be able to match up with zarkos ball handling. i would be much more open to taking howard over okator. howard at 6'11" is closer to being able play center in the long run based on size then okator. amare will be getting at least 38 minutes a game in the coming years, that only leaves 10 minutes for any other back up power forwards. so if zarko can get some time there with back up time at small forward we are looking at him getting around 20 minutes per game. that fixes both power forward and small forward with playing time. now if you are able to get lampe to be a high post center along with jake and a draft pick then you are going to round that spot out really well.

Zarko playing PF is something that you might be able to get away with but don't really want to do.

Zarko's outside shooting is a little bit suspect so far, at best inconsistent and he needs a lot of work on handling the ball. His best assets so far are understanding of the game, passing and maybe even rebounding.

But you don't really want to have Zarko matchup with all those strong physical PFs.

Right now I would definately pick Howard over Okafor if they measure in at 6'11 and 6'9. Especially since Howard is so young he will probably still grow.
But I think Okafor would be able to play against all centers except Shaq and maybe Yao but Ben Wallace isn't doing bad against those either and Ben is probably only 6'6.

 

[F-Dog]

Zarko isn't the same player now that he was before the wrist injury. If he comes back 100%, I expect that he'll split time between SF and PF and cause more problems for the other team than he does for the Suns.

From what I've seen, Zarko has the physical skills to be a solid defensive player (think Robert Horry), but I'm sure that it won't happen for a few years, if ever.



As for trading up in the draft, it's almost impossible. I don't think there's any chance of the Suns getting Okafor or Howard if they wind up at #3 or lower, not without trading Amare at least.

Maybe I'm too pessimistic, though.

 

[George O'Brien]

I'm on record as saying my preference is Okafor because I think he will be very good almost immediately. For a guy whose offense keeps getting knocked, he seems to score a lot and he is compared to Ben Wallace when playing defense.

After that? It is hard to say. I am reluctant to even consider SF's who are not great outside shooters. Josh Smith is the only SF who has a reputation for being a top shooter, but he is a HS player and that does not necessarily translate to the NBA.
Warrick and Iguodala should be very good NBA players, but they are drive to the basket guys.

Morris has been getting some buzz but is lot listed by the draft boards I've been looking at. In any case, I have to wonder if the Suns are wise in taking another teenager.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think Zarko will play a lot on the inside for several years. He is just too skinny and weak. I expect his shooting will return once his wrist is completely healthy. He shot the lights out at the Rocky Mountain review last summer before his hernia problem.

Lampe may be a better prospect for playing PF. He is similar to Zarko in that he is a very good shooter, passer, and can attack the basket -- but he is 50 pounds heavier. Unfortunately, he is also 5 years younger.

 

[slinslin]

Zarko had like 3 or 4 good games before he broke that wrist.

He looked really good there but he also looked bad in just as many games where he didn't get as much playing time because of playing bad.

Zarko can be a good player but right now he isn't really and he will have to make a lot of improvements in the offseason to say that we would pass up on Okafor because of Zarko.

You should never pass up on players because you have different needs at that point.

If you do that you set yourself up for some of the worst draft mistakes in the history of the NBA, especially when you do that in the high lottery.

 

[slinslin]

Originally posted by George O'Brien

After that? It is hard to say. I am reluctant to even consider SF's who are not great outside shooters. Josh Smith is the only SF who has a reputation for being a top shooter, but he is a HS player and that does not necessarily translate to the NBA.
Warrick and Iguodala should be very good NBA players, but they are drive to the basket guys.
.

The Suns have assembled enough of those so called "shooters" on there bench.
Jacobsen, Zarko, Lampe, Vujanic...

We have no athletes on the bench at all. None.

It would definately not hurt to have some great athletes on the bench who flourish in a fast paced game that the Suns want to play.

It is not like we have a ton of guys who excel at driving to the basket either.
Really we have none except JJ but JJ has more of a midrange game than actually attacking the basket most of the time.


Shooting isn't really the problem right now. It is defense. If you play better defense , you should get more fastbreaks and better shots also.
Some bad quarters of shooting exlcuded I can't remember when we had one of those really bad shooting nights that we had with Marbury sometimes.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by slinslin
The Suns have assembled enough of those so called "shooters" on there bench.
Jacobsen, Zarko, Lampe, Vujanic...

We have no athletes on the bench at all. None.

Considering tht Zarko is barely playing, Lampe not all, and Vujanic is not on the team yet - I'm not convinced we've assembled enough shooters.

In general, Zarko came into the league as being more of a slasher than a shooter. Barbosa is a drive or three player. Marion should be drving to the basket more. Amare makes most of his points going to the basket. JJ is best when he can get into the paint.

I wouldn't mind picking up somebody like Cardinal, even if he is not as athletic as some of the guys in the draft.

 

[slinslin]

Well. when did we have the last poor shooting game really?

Without Marbury we don't have that problem as much. Barbosa is a really good shooter, Jacobsen is a shooter, Marion is a shooter, Joe Johnson is a mid-range shooter, Lampe is a shooter, Zarko is a shooter in my opinion anyway and Vujanic is also a good shooter.

Now break down the list of really good athletes on this team.

Barbosa, Marion and Amare. Nobody else. JJ isn't really athletic for a 6'7-6'8 swingman.

Who can be a very good defender? The 4 above. I don't expect any real defensive contributions from the others.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by slinslin
Well. when did we have the last poor shooting game really?

Without Marbury we don't have that problem as much. Barbosa is a really good shooter, Jacobsen is a shooter, Marion is a shooter, Joe Johnson is a mid-range shooter, Lampe is a shooter, Zarko is a shooter in my opinion anyway and Vujanic is also a good shooter.

Now break down the list of really good athletes on this team.

Barbosa, Marion and Amare. Nobody else. JJ isn't really athletic for a 6'7-6'8 swingman.

Who can be a very good defender? The 4 above. I don't expect any real defensive contributions from the others.

JJ looks pretty athletic to me. Considering he is the team's best man defender, he seems to move rather well IMHO.

It is my understanding that Vujanic is pretty athletic as well. nbadraft describes his: "Has good body frame size with nice athletic abilities and qreat quickness".

nbadraft.net

 

[elindholm]

nbadraft describes his: "Has good body frame size with nice athletic abilities and qreat quickness".

Dude. NBAdraft describes everyone in glowing terms. Their reports are not evidence of a player's potential. You might as well look at interviews with a player's mother, so that she can tell you how special her son is.

 

[devilalum]

Originally posted by slinslin
It depends on the picks order in the top 5.

For the Suns it would probably be

#1-2 = Okafor or Howard
#3 Smith
#4-6 don't look all that exciting right now but before the draft guys like Telfair might shoot up the rankings.

Maybe a couple of Darkos will create a stir and Okafor or Howard will fall.

Maybe the Suns will continue to be so bad they won't have to trade up.

At their current pace they should make the top 3.

Atlanta may do better with Wallace than some think.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by elindholm
nbadraft describes his: "Has good body frame size with nice athletic abilities and qreat quickness".

Dude. NBAdraft describes everyone in glowing terms. Their reports are not evidence of a player's potential. You might as well look at interviews with a player's mother, so that she can tell you how special her son is.

Actually they had some concerns about whether he is physical enough. But the question was not how good he would be, but whether he would be "athletic".

 

[F-Dog]

Originally posted by devilalum
Maybe a couple of Darkos will create a stir and Okafor or Howard will fall.

Maybe the Suns will continue to be so bad they won't have to trade up.

At their current pace they should make the top 3.

Atlanta may do better with Wallace than some think.

IIRC, at this time last season Darko was already considered the #2 overall prospect--the only question was whether he would be eligible in 2004.

And, if Atlanta starts to do better with Wallace, they'll suspend him for the rest of the season.

If the Suns keep playing like this, though, it won't matter.

 

[George O'Brien]

The big shifts will begin in March during the NCAA tournament. Guys like Anthony, Wade, Ford, and Hinrich made huge strides as a result of great performances last March. Hinrich was considered a late teens player until he led his team to the championship game.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
The big shifts will begin in March during the NCAA tournament. Guys like Anthony, Wade, Ford, and Hinrich made huge strides as a result of great performances last March. Hinrich was considered a late teens player until he led his team to the championship game.

Are you sure? I thought Heinrich was considered a top 10 player from midseason on. Ford and Anthony were both considered top picks as well. I do agree with you however that a strong tournament can really help a player move up the draft charts.

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

Carmelo was considered a high lottery pick out of highschool.