How long do we wait?

[WisconsinCard]

How long do you think it will be before BB is looking for new employment? If I had it my way I would say the sooner the better.

 

[Soul Reaper]

How long until we trade Randy Johnson to the Yanks?

 

[schillingfan]

How long do you think it will be before BB is looking for new employment? If I had it my way I would say the sooner the better.

Do you think that the D-Backs team is talented enough to win?

Have the youngsters (babybacks) who've been coming up been performing well, and in some cases better than expected?

Have you noticed the D-Backs are rebuilding and on a limited payroll?

Rebuilding=not manager's fault=manager who handles youth well=Brenly.

 

[RLakin]

Do you think that the D-Backs team is talented enough to win?

Have the youngsters (babybacks) who've been coming up been performing well, and in some cases better than expected?

Have you noticed the D-Backs are rebuilding and on a limited payroll?

Rebuilding=not manager's fault=manager who handles youth well=Brenly.

I don't disagree that this team is built poorly and does not have the talent to win a championship or even the weakened West division. I also will argue (and have) that Brenly has a great deal to do w/ why this team is built the way it is.
Your assertion that Brenly works well w/ youth is comical at best. Ask Junior Spivey, Lyle Overbay, Erubiel Durazo etc. or any of a number of young arms in the bullpen who have or will go down because of his micromanagement/overuse and refusal to define their roles. I just hope he goes down before Koplove does again. It's probably too late for Villarreal.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I don't disagree that this team is built poorly and does not have the talent to win a championship or even the weakened West division. I also will argue (and have) that Brenly has a great deal to do w/ why this team is built the way it is.
Your assertion that Brenly works well w/ youth is comical at best. Ask Junior Spivey, Lyle Overbay, Erubiel Durazo etc. or any of a number of young arms in the bullpen who have or will go down because of his micromanagement/overuse and refusal to define their roles. I just hope he goes down before Koplove does again. It's probably too late for Villarreal.

I couldn't have said it better myself. When is he going to learn when its time to change pitchers. One would think that a old catcher would have a clue when a pitcher is struggling.

 

[schillingfan]

I can point to an equal number of youngsters that have thrived or performed very well. Look at the baby-backs: Kata, Hammock, Koplove, Valverde, Villareal all were used and thrived. Spivey performed well over expectations based on his minor league career. I think Brenly got more out of him than could have been expected. This year look to Tracy and Daigle.

I agree with you about the handling of Overbay, which was mystifying to me. But for the most part Brenly has given the kids every chance to play and has shown no fear of taking youngsters and throwing them in the fray.

I agree with you about micro-managing the bullpen and I think that Oscar Villareal is probably hurt because of Brenly's overuse of him.

Try comparing Brenly with Dusty Baker or Larry Bowa - both of whom have a real aversion to giving kids any opportunity to play at all.

Why could you think this starting rotation would allow the D-Backs to win this year? They are rebuilding even though the team does not want to admit it. That's what happens when you cut payroll from $100 plus million to $60 something.

 

[minercon]

I think we were expecting to win this year because the papers kept telling us we were so great and had improved over the winter with our acquisitions. I kept saying the pitching was going to stink and we were in great trouble.

So now we are at the bottom of the West once again, and I see no hope. Dessens we knew would stink, and Daigle has won a few only because the pitcher on the other team was worse than him and our bats actually worked! Johnson is getting the shaft as he pitches against too many other top pitchers and we can't hit against good pitchers.

I was ready to suggest that they take Kata out for a week and insert Baerga and see if we could hit a few more....then Kata gets a home run. Maybe have Kata move over to short and have Carlos play 2nd???? At least then we won't need to watch Cintron bobble the ball all the time.

 

[AZZenny]

"I think we were expecting to win this year because the papers kept telling us we were so great and had improved over the winter with our acquisitions."

I don't think very many serious fans believed that - the problem is, the organization believes its own hype.

We need a big-time shake-up, but I of course do not trust the GM to improve the mess he's already largely responsible for. We have a lot of deadwood (Choate, Dessens, Baerga, Colby, Sadler - at minimum. Probably DeVore, and maybe Good.) Hard to win with what is essentially a 19-20 man roster.

Here's an interesting tidbit - Hairston has been playing outfield corners pretty much exclusively since he went back down. They want to get his bat up here somehow.

I'm totally ready to see him, Ansman (slugging catcher in Tucson), Service... Oh Heck- like last year, let's just trade teams with Tucson. (Hey- Idea! put the Jethawks in Tucson so I can drive down and watch our very promising future unfold. Send the big club to Lancaster!)

May I suggest: listening to our minor league teams online is a whole lot more fun, lately. Those kids seem to actually enjoy what they're doing.

 

[BC867]

Even if you don't agree that Bob Brenly has limitations as Manager, the record shows that the team is not doing as well as they should under his leadership.

And now, in a panic mode, he has reverted to his helter-skelter lineups. Every day is spring training.

When a Manager announces to the Press that, "We suck.", it sounds like he wants to be put out of his misery. Or, more seriously, that he realizes that he's not able to turn it around.

If Robin Yount, or even Mark Grace, is named Manager, is there any doubt that Al Pedrique will be calling the shots from behind the scenes?

Just as when Dick Van Arsdale was name Head Coach of the Suns years ago, but everyone knew that John Wetzel was running the club.

I'd rather see Al Pedrique given the job, as you know. We don't need a figurehead, we need a leader. An experienced Manager.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

I'd rather see Al Pedrique given the job, as you know. We don't need a figurehead, we need a leader. An experienced Manager.

That is somewhat contradictory since Pedrique has never had any Major League managerial experience and I believe he hadnt managed much at the Minor League level either....

True, Pedrique did manage all the "Babybacks", however, the Dbacks still are a veteran oriented team and I don't know if they'll take him too seriously... The Dbacks are in a major need of someone who is authoritative as their manager... I'm just afraid they'll hire someone like Grace or Yount, which would be the worst case scenario since they're both "buddy buddy" with the players, obviously something similar to what Brenly is..... They need someone who is willing to win at all cost and agreed must be a proven winner, but someone who always gets the fullest out of his players....

 

[BC867]

That is somewhat contradictory since Pedrique has never had any Major League managerial experience and I believe he hadn't managed much at the Minor League level either.

True, Pedrique did manage all the "Babybacks", however, the Dbacks still are a veteran oriented team and I don't know if they'll take him too seriously.

Actually, Pedrique has nine years of Managerial experience. His teams made the playoffs three times during that period, with one league championship.

He's managed within the Royals, Astros, and, most recently, D'backs organizations. Seven of his nine teams finished above .500.

http://www.mwlguide.com/managers/pedrique.html

As far as the D'backs being a veteran team and not taking him seriously . . .

The D'backs are clearly into a rebuilding mode, while trying to balance the team with veterans, to remain competitive. Al has shown how good he is at preparing young players.

I'll be willing to bet you that, since he joined the D'backs coaching staff last year, the veterans indeed take him seriously. Why do you feel they don't?

 

[IndyDevil]

True, Pedrique did manage all the "Babybacks", however, the Dbacks still are a veteran oriented team and I don't know if they'll take him too seriously... The Dbacks are in a major need of someone who is authoritative as their manager...They need someone who is willing to win at all cost and agreed must be a proven winner, but someone who always gets the fullest out of his players....

So, we go from Showalter (authoritative) to Brenly (buddy-buddy), and now we need to go back to a Showalter-type again?? No, I don't think that is the answer....our lineup is slowly but surely changing from vets to BabyBacks, so wouldn't it make sense to have a manager that has worked with the youngsters on a regular basis (Pedrique)??

 

[Skkorpion]

Wrong targets.

For 30 years Jerry Colangelo mismanaged the Suns, refusing to have patience to develop young players. He traded the young Suns away year after year.

So now, he's doing the same with the baby backs. Brad Penny, Padilla, Lyle Overbay are going to make Dbaks management look like the Cubs of old.

 

[minercon]

Please, please stop this idea rotating in your brains that Grace will or should be appointed the manager. Listen to the guy on TV. He is so immature and talks like some stupid high school jock, it is pathetic. He gets so high and excitable when he speaks. He will be bouncing around in the dugout trying to be everyone's friend and making rash decisions.

When Brenly was appointed to coach this team I thought it was a mistake as he had no experience. However, he proved me wrong and won the world series. I think he is hampered at the moment with some lousy level A infielding with all the bobbles I see, bats that sleep, and management's bad decisions on who to keep around in the pitching positions.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

I'll be willing to bet you that, since he joined the D'backs coaching staff last year, the veterans indeed take him seriously. Why do you feel they don't?

First, I wasn't necessarily targeting Pedrique with that comment, but just a manager that doesnt have any Major League managerial experience in general....

Even though the Dbacks have the "Babybacks", they're still a veteran oriented team in need of some figurehead to inject some much needed discipline onto the team....Unfortunately, Brenly manages with too much empathy and emotion, that it dilutes his logic for the most part....He constantly uses the likes of Koplove, Choate, Villarreal, Mantei, etc... after poor outings because he believes it would re-instill confidence in the players....He fails to realize that they're struggling because of physical ailments and not because of mental reasons.....

The Dbacks need to bring in a completely different coaching staff with a different philosphy than the current one has....I'm concerned if Pedrique was hired, that the Dbacks will bring anyone from outside the organization to join his staff....Also, Pedrique would be just an interim manager and being in a "lameduck" situation means that he wouldnt be taken seriously either....

So, we go from Showalter (authoritative) to Brenly (buddy-buddy), and now we need to go back to a Showalter-type again?? No, I don't think that is the answer....our lineup is slowly but surely changing from vets to BabyBacks, so wouldn't it make sense to have a manager that has worked with the youngsters on a regular basis (Pedrique)??

My favorite manager of all-time is Billy Martin (unfortunately his stint in NY during the mid-late 80s with George S. detracted away from his greatness) since he was always able to take a mediocre team and immediately lead them to better results...Yes, he did feud a lot with his players, but with his aggressive demeanor, he got the fullest of his talent.....Took the '72 Tigers (who had a bunch of retreads from the '68 WS team) into the ALCS, then did well with the Rangers and As....

And now Jack McKeon suddenly fits that mold as well....Takes teams with young average talent and knows how to "push the buttons" necessary to turn a team around.....

The question is....Is Jerry C. and the rest of his managing partners be finally willing to break his pattern of always bringing in unprovens, and finally hire someone who is highly profiled?

Look at the current state of AZ sports coaching.... The Cardinals finally grasped the concept to bring in someone who is highly reputable to guide them (by hiring Denny Green).... The Coyotes hired someone of merit in Bob Francis, but bring in Browness who hasnt achieved anything...And the Suns extended D'Antoni's contract and he hasnt accomplished much at the NBA level..... Stop with the managing carousel and bring in someone who will be there in the long-term.....

 

[green machine]

Wrong targets.

For 30 years Jerry Colangelo mismanaged the Suns, refusing to have patience to develop young players. He traded the young Suns away year after year.

So now, he's doing the same with the baby backs. Brad Penny, Padilla, Lyle Overbay are going to make Dbaks management look like the Cubs of old.

That's not fair.

Penny brought Mantei, which in turn brought a division title and 100 wins in 1999.

Padilla brought Schilling, which in turn brought a World Series Championship in 2001.

Overbay brought Sexson, and in fairness if Sexson was not injured I don't think this would be an issue.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

That's not fair.

Penny brought Mantei, which in turn brought a division title and 100 wins in 1999.

Padilla brought Schilling, which in turn brought a World Series Championship in 2001.

Overbay brought Sexson, and in fairness if Sexson was not injured I don't think this would be an issue.

I think Skkorp has some very good points. We traded a can't-miss pitching prospect (Penny) and an OF with speed and power (A. Nunez) for a mediocre closer (he has always been injury prone and mediocre even before he got here). Bad overall trade even though it helped in '99.

Overbay and co. for Sexson was stupid too even if Richie, aka Mickey Tettleton, never got injured. .235 BA? Can we please pay you $10 mil a year? Only Garagiola thinks so. Most intelligent people knew Overbay was going to be a player, unfortunately the front office/Brenly screwed with his confidence last year and then traded him.

Another whopper for me is Kim for Hillenbrand when the DBacks knew (I'm hoping they knew) that Tracy had been wearing out the minor leagues. Trading a 23 year old SP/RP with a lifetime ERA under 3.50 for a average 3B with limited power and the ability to hit the ball to only one side of the field is never a good idea.

 

[AZCB34]

I do not think Jerry will can Brenly during the season. Brenly will see the end of the year, the front office will evaluate the season and the organization will make a change.

While I was excited at the idea of getting a real closer, it was foolish to give up a SP like Penny. Mantei helped this team in 99 but since then has done little. Injury or no injury, Mantei has given the Dbacks exactly 52 saves since 1999.

The Sexson deal is still up for debate and unless Sexson can come back at do what he was doing before the injury which, regardless of his avg., was provide power in the middle to help out the other players, then this year is shot. I have maintained since the get-go that if Sexson is not signed long term and bails after this year, this trade will have completely sucked. The Dbacks will have given up alot of decent players for almost nothing (anyone notice the Brewers are 22-20...would any of us like to be in that boat?)

I would trade Kim for Hillenbrand every day of the week into the next millenium. It was and still is a good trade. I never measured the trade by Shea's power and regardless of what Tracy was doing in the minors, there were no guarantees he would be able to transition. As it turns out, Shea has become a tremendously useful player with Sexson being out now.

 

[green machine]

Another whopper for me is Kim for Hillenbrand when the DBacks knew (I'm hoping they knew) that Tracy had been wearing out the minor leagues. Trading a 23 year old SP/RP with a lifetime ERA under 3.50 for a average 3B with limited power and the ability to hit the ball to only one side of the field is never a good idea.

Because Kim is doing oh so well for the Red Sox...

 

[schillingfan]

Nobody should complain about trading youngsters Padilla and Travis Lee to the Phillies for Curt Schilling. We Phillies phans still complain plenty about that - though we like Vicente.

I never understood Brenly's treatment of Overbay, he had a nice OBP and just needed time to adjust. But I'm not sure how much he is to blame for trading him.

I didn't like the Sexson trade because the D-Backs are rebuilding and I figured they could use Capuano, Overbay and de la Rosa (the supposed prospect from Boston).

In general you can't rebuild and compete at the same time. They are strategies at cross-purpose. Winning means giving up prospect for proven players (trading Mantei, Padilla, Bierbrodt etc.). Rebuilding means trading veterans for prospects. In some caes, playing a veteran can ****** the progress of a prospect. We'll get to see this year if Hairston and Kata can play now that Alomar is hurt.

As a player I like Richie Sexson a lot and if he is re-signed by the D-Backs he will probably play well - but I thought it was the wrong strategy given the current state of the D-Backs.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Because Kim is doing oh so well for the Red Sox...

Please. The DBacks would kill for Kim. Have you seen the ERA's of the Arizona starters? Or the mess that is the bullpen? Kim was very good while he was here, as a starter or as a reliever. If Kim was on this team he'd instantly be better than every pitcher on the roster except for RJ and Webb. The kid's got some of the best stuff in baseball, he just hasn't been nurtured right and getting traded to possibly the worst destination for him (outside of the Yankees) in the major league hasn't helped. He got booed before he ever through a pitch and gets heckled by his own fans every times he laces 'em up. Watch him go somewhere else and revert back to his old form. You heard it here first.

 

[BC867]

My favorite manager of all-time is Billy Martin (unfortunately his stint in NY during the mid-late 80s with George S. detracted away from his greatness) since he was always able to take a mediocre team and immediately lead them to better results.

In all fairness, it must be pointed out that every time Billy took a new Managerial assignment -- yes, he immediately led them to better results -- then every one of his teams declined steadily as long as he stayed with them. Job after job.

It's ironic that Bob Brenly has fallen into the same mold. Spectacular results his first year. But the longer he stays, the worse his teams perform.

At this stage, the D'backs need more than a hired gun for one great year. They need to build a foundation to be continually competitive.

 

[az240zz]

For all the KIm supporters if he is so good why is he in the minor leagues. Baseball has always had the one or two year wonders who looked good and then they were gone. It is possible that Kim's mental state is why he is in the minors.

The D-backs need pitching but how or where they 're going to get it is a good question. Who would you trade for and who would you give up?

As I have said in earlier posts the second year players are'nt have the years they had last year. Is the talent there, sophomore jinx, or is it bad managing and coaching? You can't win with just 1 quality starter.

Az240z