How long until the Suns are back in the playoffs?

[boisesuns]

Since the Suns are out of the playoff race, I was wondering how long it might be before they are back in. If nash goes this offseason, I could see it being a while.

I'm not sure we can add one or two players to our current talent (Assuming nash goes) to make the team any better than they were this season. We'll have some free agent $ from vince carter, plus a draft pick and whatever we trade nash for.

I'm not sure I trust the front office to make the team better even with a few assets to play with.


What do you think?

 

[slinslin]

if they never dedicate themselves to a true rebuilding process it will be a long long time to ever contend again unless we get incredibly lucky in a trade.

Maybe we can sneak in as the 8th seed a few times with Sarvers strategy of signing mediocre free agents to keep this team from a rebuilding process but that is it.

We will never be a contender again if we don't put more effort and emphasis on adding talent through the draft.

 

[Mainstreet]

if they never dedicate themselves to a true rebuilding process it will be a long long time to ever contend again unless we get incredibly lucky in a trade.

Maybe we can sneak in as the 8th seed a few times with Sarvers strategy of signing mediocre free agents to keep this team from a rebuilding process but that is it.

We will never be a contender again if we don't put more effort and emphasis on adding talent through the draft.

I never could figure out why it has to be one or the other unless one is purely planning on being terrible for years so one can stay in the lottery. As long as Sarver is the owner, I wouldn't put my chips on the draft.

The Suns as I understand it, are more engaged in scouting NBA talent, not college talent. Lance Blanks was brought into scout NBA talent. I think there is another way to add young talent such as the way the Suns added Kevin Johnson and Joe Johnson. Don't get me wrong, my personal philosophy is to build a team through the draft and the Suns were good at it under JC, and usually by drafting late. However, it appears Sarver has chosen a different strategy.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I never could figure out why it has to be one or the other unless one is purely planning on being terrible for years so one can stay in the lottery. As long as Sarver is the owner, I wouldn't put my chips on the draft.

The Suns as I understand it, are more engaged in scouting NBA talent, not college talent. Lance Blanks was brought into scout NBA talent. I think there is another way to add young talent such as the way the Suns added Kevin Johnson and Joe Johnson. Don't get me wrong, my personal philosophy is to build a team through the draft and the Suns were good at it under JC, and usually by drafting late. However, it appears Sarver has chosen a different strategy.

and that strategy has left us old and with no future.

JC did BOTH. He would allow the team to bottom out (trading Nance/Kidd/Marbury) which would allow us to net great young talent via trade AND the draft (KJ/Amare) and then he would ADD a STAR player in FA (Chambers/Nash)... whereas this incredibly stupid management is bleeding Steve Nash dry, holding on to mediocrity and getting NOTHING in return for pretty much anything... while completely ignoring the draft.

Sarver has turned us into a pseudo "small market" team... it's unattractive to FA because our owner has been labeled cheap... he doesn't reward players or his FO for success and makes incredibly stupid basketball decisions.

the only way this team ever gets out from under is if they go the OKC route because of this... however, since we seem to have zero basketball people, i have no faith they'd know who to draft at the top of the lotto even if they got there.

how long till we make the playoffs? when Sarver sells the team or realizes he needs to bring a genuine basketball mind in to run the ship, then we'll make the playoff again. So, I'll put that as 5 years to never.

I think we're in for a run none of us have ever witness as far as the Suns are concerned. A T-Wolves minus KG type oblivion.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Sadly, I fear Cheese is right. We may hover for awhile around a 9-12 seed (excitment!) before completely bottoming out. Nothing worse than being in purgatory in the NBA.

 

[Cheesebeef]

this doesn't really belong here... and we all know about it... but I'd just like to pour a little more salt in all of our wounds:

In 2007, then-Suns General Manager Steve Kerr wanted to hire Thibodeau to replace Marc Iavaroni on the Suns' staff after Thibodeau was part of the Jeff Van Gundy staff that was fired in Houston. Thibodeau interviewed but wound up with Boston when Mike D'Antoni resisted hiring Thibodeau in part because of the Suns' success vs. Houston and his reluctance to put him over existing staff.

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...ns-chicago-bulls-road-loss.html#ixzz1IldrgOw9

jesus DA... AND Sarver. It actually appeared Kerr had more good ideas than bad. way to run his ass out of town last summer after he somehow got us under the luxury tax and back in the conference finals.

 

[slinslin]

Look what Utah got for Deron, look what Denver got for Melo, look what we got for Amare?

And we are supposed to compete for a playoff spot anytime soon?

Not signing Amare was so ********. Even if they thought he wasn't worth the risk he would have been our best trade commodity if they signed him, played through him and listened to offers for an Amare that was signed longterm..

 

[Chaplin]

and that strategy has left us old and with no future.

JC did BOTH. He would allow the team to bottom out (trading Nance/Kidd/Marbury) which would allow us to net great young talent via trade AND the draft (KJ/Amare) and then he would ADD a STAR player in FA (Chambers/Nash)... whereas this incredibly stupid management is bleeding Steve Nash dry, holding on to mediocrity and getting NOTHING in return for pretty much anything... while completely ignoring the draft.

Sarver has turned us into a pseudo "small market" team... it's unattractive to FA because our owner has been labeled cheap... he doesn't reward players or his FO for success and makes incredibly stupid basketball decisions.

the only way this team ever gets out from under is if they go the OKC route because of this... however, since we seem to have zero basketball people, i have no faith they'd know who to draft at the top of the lotto even if they got there.

how long till we make the playoffs? when Sarver sells the team or realizes he needs to bring a genuine basketball mind in to run the ship, then we'll make the playoff again. So, I'll put that as 5 years to never.

I think we're in for a run none of us have ever witness as far as the Suns are concerned. A T-Wolves minus KG type oblivion.

Minor, but the only really good draft picks we've made in the past 25 years were Amare and Marion. KJ was NOT a draft pick--he was with Cleveland for most of the 87-88 season before getting traded to us.

Historically, the Suns have the 4th-best record in the history of the league, and it's not because of the draft. I'd say it 75% trades/free agency and 25% draft that has led to our success over the years. So we can't sit here and say that there is "this chance" and "that probability" at all. We just don't know.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Look what Utah got for Deron, look what Denver got for Melo, look what we got for Amare?

And we are supposed to compete for a playoff spot anytime soon?

Not signing Amare was so ********. Even if they thought he wasn't worth the risk he would have been our best trade commodity if they signed him, played through him and listened to offers for an Amare that was signed longterm..

I agree, and always said we should re-sign Amare. Was there a risk involved? OF COURSE, everyone understood that. However you don't get better by losing All Star big men, even if they aren't perfect. Anyone here care to predict what big FA player will want to come here in the near future?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Minor, but the only really good draft picks we've made in the past 25 years were Amare and Marion.

really? Michael Finley at 21 was an incredible draft pick? Nash at 13? Majerle at 9? Barbosa at 30? Dumas and Ceballos in the 2nd round? Those were all GREAT draft picks.

KJ was NOT a draft pick--he was with Cleveland for most of the 87-88 season before getting traded to us.

I noted that we used Nance as a piece to get that young talent chap... that was KJ.

Historically, the Suns have the 4th-best record in the history of the league, and it's not because of the draft. I'd say it 75% trades/free agency and 25% draft that has led to our success over the years. So we can't sit here and say that there is "this chance" and "that probability" at all. We just don't know.

We know this... that overwhelming majority of that 4th best record in the history of the league was built under someone's watch who was pushed out of the organization and now has nothing to do with it and now we have no respected basketball minds running the show. that does bode well for the future.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I agree, and always said we should re-sign Amare. Was there a risk involved? OF COURSE, everyone understood that. However you don't get better by losing All Star big men, even if they aren't perfect. Anyone here care to predict what big FA player will want to come here in the near future?

someone who no other team thinks is a MAX player so we overspend to get him?

 

[slinslin]

KJ was almost a draft pick you could say.

I'd count Joe Johnson as well since we got him as a rookie.

 

[slinslin]

We know this... that overwhelming majority of that 4th best record in the history of the league was built under someone's watch who was pushed out of the organization and now has nothing to do with it and now we have no respected basketball minds running the show. that does bode well for the future.

And the 4th best record is meaningless.

We have 2 finals appearances to show for it and no title.

Also I am pretty sure that Steve Nash, Dan Majerle, Leandro Barbosa, Stephen Jackson, Michael Finley, Cedric Ceballos, Richard Dumas, Jeff Hornacek, Steve Kerr etc were good picks too. A few years ago we had a reputation as the best team in the league in the draft.

 

[desertdawg]

someone who no other teams thinks is a MAX player so we overspend to get him?

That's another thing that went plum loco in the NBA, a couple teams got their big 3 together ( LA and Boston ) and other teams started offering top 5 talent money to top 20 talent players. Bosh is another cat I feel got way overpaid. The whole thing got crazy fast, add our FO to the situation...Sunsets.

 

[Cheesebeef]

KJ was almost a draft pick you could say.

I'd count Joe Johnson as well since we got him as a rookie.

don't buy that... those were shrewd trades. But what those trades DID show is that Jerry knew when his goose was cooked and allowed the team to hurt in the present for a chance to rebuild for the future. something this FO apparently has zero want to do.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

someone who no other team thinks is a MAX player so we overspend to get him?

Well, yes. There are plenty of max players that are far more questionable, and Amare would rank among somewhere in the middle among max players. I'm not arguing that Amare is a perfect max option, but other than Lebron/Durant/Wade/Rose/Howard, who else would you say is an obvious max player, and clearly better than Amare? I'd be interested to see your list.

Again, Amare has his flaws, but you never know when our next star player will come. It may not be for awhile. Bird in the hand theory...

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well, yes. There are plenty of max players that are far more questionable, and Amare would rank among somewhere in the middle among max players. I'm not arguing that Amare is a perfect max option, but other than Lebron/Durant/Wade/Rose/Howard, who else would you say is an obvious max player, and clearly better than Amare? I'd be interested to see your list.

Again, Amare has his flaws, but you never know when our next star player will come. It may not be for awhile. Bird in the hand theory...

oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not even talking about an Amare type player. I see us getting really desperate at some point and signing the equivalent of a Zach Randolph type stat stuffer/low impact guy to a MAX deal.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not even talking about an Amare type player. I see us getting really desperate at some point and signing the equivalent of a Zach Randolph type stat stuffer/low impact guy to a MAX deal.

Exactly my point, which is why I think it would be much better to roll the dice. I totally expect us to end up with a ton of cash, then wasting it like Detroit on the Ben Gordon/Chuck Villenueva poo poo platter.

With Amare, it's pretty obvious what a difference he made, with essentially the same team. With him, we were a game away from the finals, without him, an also ran in the West. I just have no confidence in the current regime to figure out a better option than re-signing Amare despite the risks, especially because they got rid of Kerr. The Kerr loss angered me almost as much as Amare.

 

[Chaplin]

Well, yes. There are plenty of max players that are far more questionable, and Amare would rank among somewhere in the middle among max players. I'm not arguing that Amare is a perfect max option, but other than Lebron/Durant/Wade/Rose/Howard, who else would you say is an obvious max player, and clearly better than Amare? I'd be interested to see your list.

Again, Amare has his flaws, but you never know when our next star player will come. It may not be for awhile. Bird in the hand theory...

And what would your attitude be in 3 years when we would have to pay MAX money to a player that will barely play because his knees have went out on him? Even if he does figure out a way to play--he'll be Chris Webber in those last 2 years. And I certainly didn't want that. The Suns took a practical approach to the Amare negotiations, but New York just said "screw it" and took a huge chance.

And now that Carmelo is DOMINATING the team now over there, Amare is now second fiddle. But hey, he's making 20 million a year, and in NYC, so it's all good.

 

[slinslin]

My guess is that Kerr wanted to rebuild the team in his own way and Sarver let him go because he does not want to rebuild and be bad for a while...

 

[slinslin]

And what would your attitude be in 3 years when we would have to pay MAX money to a player that will barely play because his knees have went out on him? Even if he does figure out a way to play--he'll be Chris Webber in those last 2 years. And I certainly didn't want that. The Suns took a practical approach to the Amare negotiations, but New York just said "screw it" and took a huge chance.

And now that Carmelo is DOMINATING the team now over there, Amare is now second fiddle. But hey, he's making 20 million a year, and in NYC, so it's all good.

Who the hell cares? The Suns could have traded Amare this season for ten times the value that they got by signing Childress and Warrick.

Even if Amare's knees become an issue again letting him go will never be justified because the same money was spent on Warrick, Childress and Frye. 2 Players who we couldn't care less about and one decent role player.

 

[Griffin]

If the Suns trade Nash, it could very well be a long time before they make playoffs again. In fact, the current team we have, without Nash, would have a good shot at setting NBA record for fewest wins in a season. Not something to look forward to.

If the Suns keep Nash, they might sneak into the playoffs next year as one of the last seeds, or miss out like this year. Not something to look forward to either. This could change if the Suns somehow could manage to pick up a major all-star caliber player in the off-season, but that has not happened under Sarver.

The Suns have only missed playoffs four times in the last 23 seasons. But twice now under Sarver, and counting. The team he inherited had Amare, Marion, Joe Johnson, and just acquired Nash. That's four all-stars in their primes. In his time, he let all but Nash go, without adding a single comparable player in return.

And the 4th best record is meaningless.

We have 2 finals appearances to show for it and no title.

So would you consider the Suns more successful overall had they won a title, say back in '76, and only made a handful of playoff appearances since then?

 

[slinslin]

The bottom line is always titles and nothing else.

Nobody cares if you squeaked into the playoffs many times and won many regular season games but often got eliminated in the first or second round.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

And what would your attitude be in 3 years when we would have to pay MAX money to a player that will barely play because his knees have went out on him?

Completely speculative on your part. Amare has been played to death this year by Mike D, and still has barely missed any time. There have been plenty of other really good players that have been injured this year and missed time. (CP, Boozer, Noah, Rudy Gay, etc...) Of course there is an injury risk associated with re-signing Stat, but that's the price you pay to stay competitive.

Even if he does figure out a way to play--he'll be Chris Webber in those last 2 years.

Man, I really need to get access to your crystal ball, must be amazing! Again, completely speculative on your part. He could be just as effective as he is now by the end of the contract. You just don't know.

The Suns took a practical approach to the Amare negotiations,

All hail practicality! Thank God we went the practical route, and went from competing for a Finals berth to paying 3 clowns more than Amare, and not even coming close to making the playoffs with bleak future prospects. I'm so glad we're so practical these days!

And now that Carmelo is DOMINATING the team now over there, Amare is now second fiddle. But hey, he's making 20 million a year, and in NYC, so it's all good.

And that's Amare's fault because... The problem ain't Amare. After putting up MVP numbers in the first half, "Coach" D has run him into the ground playing him insanely stupid minutes, and the Melo trade has been an unmitigated disaster.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And what would your attitude be in 3 years when we would have to pay MAX money to a player that will barely play because his knees have went out on him?

this is wild speculation at this point, especially in a world where guys are playing more and more after these surgeries.

Even if he does figure out a way to play--he'll be Chris Webber in those last 2 years.

you can't say this with ANY degree of certainty. Dude seems to be getting stronger and stronger the further he's getting away from the surgery. Webber's surgery came a couple years before Amare's AND he was MUCH older when it happened. I don't think there's really any basis to make a comparison between the two.

And I certainly didn't want that. The Suns took a practical approach to the Amare negotiations, but New York just said "screw it" and took a huge chance.

And now that Carmelo is DOMINATING the team now over there, Amare is now second fiddle. But hey, he's making 20 million a year, and in NYC, so it's all good.

just because the Knicks were stupid and handed the keys to the castle over to Melo doesn't mean Amare didn't turn that team around before Dolan nuked the entire team.