How Much More Accurate Can Rosen Become

[slanidrac16]

How many times does a qb throw to a spot where the wr SHOULD be?

 

[PACardsFan]

We've made this all too complicated. If the Cardinals perceive that Murray>Rosen, then they should draft him. If not, stick with Rosen & draft Bosa/Williams. It's that simple.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

We've made this all too complicated. If the Cardinals perceive that Murray>Rosen, then they should draft him. If not, stick with Rosen & draft Bosa/Williams. It's that simple.

Complicated? We have several more weeks until the draft, this is just the first wave of complexity.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Eli Manning? So you're saying Rosen will win at least 2 Super Bowls? Cool.

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[GatorAZ]

I think Eli is closer to underrated than overrated. Even if you take out the SB’s all those road playoff wins were something else. He’s just hit the wall and sucks now but he was productive and durable as heck.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Eli Manning? So you're saying Rosen will win at least 2 Super Bowls? Cool.

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That is why I like stats. It removes bias

It only makes me think trading Rosen for peanuts is foolish

 

[cardncubfan]

While the line was bad, Rosen's time to throw was better than 22 other starters. By the end of the year teams were only rushing 3 and 4 and Rosen couldn't read the complicated defenses in front of him in that instance.

This is where he has the biggest opportunity to improve with experience.

This would suggest we had a top 10 offensive line which isn't true.

 

[PACardsFan]

Complicated? We have several more weeks until the draft, this is just the first wave of complexity.

I was trying to be funny. My prayers go out to the Cardinal front office. They have difficult decisions to make come draft day.

 

[Veer]

Our OL play was indeed abysmal. However, other teams suffer from OL injuries all the time and find a way to not totally embarass themselves. The Seahawks are in the playoffs each and every year thanks to Russell Wilson, despite fielding a horrible OL in most seasons. Did Rosen call the right protections? Did he held onto the ball for too long, or didn't know fast enough where to go with the football? Rookie mistakes. How much can Rosen improve? If he improves by a large margin, he's still just average at best. It's not fair to judge Rosen on last season, but you can't say that everything is on the OL. Far too many missed throw even when there was a clean pocket. Far too many mistakes without a glimpse of pressure.

 

[DVontel]

Our OL play was indeed abysmal. However, other teams suffer from OL injuries all the time and find a way to not totally embarass themselves. The Seahawks are in the playoffs each and every year thanks to Russell Wilson, despite fielding a horrible OL in most seasons. Did Rosen call the right protections? Did he held onto the ball for too long, or didn't know fast enough where to go with the football? Rookie mistakes. How much can Rosen improve? If he improves by a large margin, he's still just average at best. It's not fair to judge Rosen on last season, but you can't say that everything is on the OL. Far too many missed throw even when there was a clean pocket. Far too many mistakes without a glimpse of pressure.

Man, y’all gotta stop comparing Rosen to vets. It’ll make more sense if y’all compared him to a Sam Darnold or Josh Allen.

 

[Dr. Jones]

@Chris_Sanders

Making too much damn sense for the masses.

Outstanding contribution sir.

 

[PACardsFan]

Our OL play was indeed abysmal. However, other teams suffer from OL injuries all the time and find a way to not totally embarass themselves. The Seahawks are in the playoffs each and every year thanks to Russell Wilson, despite fielding a horrible OL in most seasons. Did Rosen call the right protections? Did he held onto the ball for too long, or didn't know fast enough where to go with the football? Rookie mistakes. How much can Rosen improve? If he improves by a large margin, he's still just average at best. It's not fair to judge Rosen on last season, but you can't say that everything is on the OL. Far too many missed throw even when there was a clean pocket. Far too many mistakes without a glimpse of pressure.

This is a good post. If the Cardinal's top brass can't see this, then we're in a hopeless situation. Still a tough position for the FO when they've invested what they did to get Rosen in the 1st place. But, if they want to be a 1st class franchise, they have to get past that. What they did last year, they had to do. Trading up to get Rosen was exactly the right thing to do. Now, if the Cardinals see Murray being a higher impact QB than Rosen, then the Cardinals need to draft him. That's why the people at the top make the money they do. If it pans out, kudos to you. If it doesn't, you find another high paying gig with someone else.

 

[PJ1]

Our OL play was indeed abysmal. However, other teams suffer from OL injuries all the time and find a way to not totally embarass themselves. The Seahawks are in the playoffs each and every year thanks to Russell Wilson, despite fielding a horrible OL in most seasons. Did Rosen call the right protections? Did he held onto the ball for too long, or didn't know fast enough where to go with the football? Rookie mistakes. How much can Rosen improve? If he improves by a large margin, he's still just average at best. It's not fair to judge Rosen on last season, but you can't say that everything is on the OL. Far too many missed throw even when there was a clean pocket. Far too many mistakes without a glimpse of pressure.

Where did we rank in rushing yardage? How much does having even a mediocre rushing attack help a rookie QB? How much yardage did we gain on first down vs. other teams? This guy was in a hole constantly. I really wonder what games many of you watched.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

This would suggest we had a top 10 offensive line which isn't true.

Those are the stats directly from NFL.Com

 

[cardncubfan]

Those are the stats directly from NFL.Com

So they must think we had a top ten o-line. How can it suggest otherwise? We would definitely be top ten in pass pro. Does it also take into account if the receivers were open or not? He may have had more time to throw but no one to throw to.

 

[dscher]

Eli Manning? So you're saying Rosen will win at least 2 Super Bowls? Cool.

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Yeah, if we can surround Rosen with the teams Eli had and they built up over the years, then I'd be down! But, I think Eli was more that guy who couldn't take over a game for ya..but could be solid with the right pieces around him. That's how I could see Josh.

 

[DVontel]

@Chris_Sanders

Making too much damn sense for the masses.

Outstanding contribution sir.

lol

Not even trying to defend Rosen here, but anyone with eyes that also watched other teams in league realize there weren’t 5 worse OLines than us. Maybe not even 3. Just look at this. Whether you believe it or not is up to you.

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[BW52]

lol

Not even trying to defend Rosen here, but anyone with eyes that also watched other teams in league realize there weren’t 5 worse OLines than us. Maybe not even 3. Just look at this. Whether you believe it or not is up to you.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Its doesn`t fit the destruction of Josh Rosen narrative that many here believe.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

So they must think we had a top ten o-line. How can it suggest otherwise? We would definitely be top ten in pass pro. Does it also take into account if the receivers were open or not? He may have had more time to throw but no one to throw to.

There is no "think" here. That is the average amount of time he had to throw. Which ranked 23rd.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw

Yes I have seen Ben Fennell's post. That is accounted for in the words "average". Average means that there are 393 pass attempts. Some have a lot of time, some will have none.


No one is making this stuff up to make Rosen look bad or good. These are just the numbers.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Its doesn`t fit the destruction of Josh Rosen narrative that many here believe.

Ben Fennell's post is completely picking one part of a stat to create an argument. He specifically doesn't mention average time to throw or give a baseline for league average of the stat he is quoting.

When he is asked on how it compares to other QBs, he doesn't answer the question. A simple link to his source would get it done but he evades it.

It's why I put my sources up here. I don't want anyone thinking I am just pulling things out of my rear.

 

[football karma]

There is no "think" here. That is the average amount of time he had to throw. Which ranked 23rd.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw

Yes I have seen Ben Fennell's post. That is accounted for in the words "average". Average means that there are 393 pass attempts. Some have a lot of time, some will have none.


No one is making this stuff up to make Rosen look bad or good. These are just the numbers.

in fairness

time to throw feels much more like a measure of how quickly the ball gets out of the QBs hands

as an example: Brady ranks 7th, Brees ranks 4th. They are clearly processing quickly, finding the right guy and delivering

A qb that isn't processing quickly, is holding the ball and searching will have higher times to throw

 

[Chris_Sanders]

More fun with sacks

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/passing-plays-sacked


The interesting one is Carr, who had the least time to throw in the NFL and was #4 sacked QB with 51 but still managed a 68% completion percentage.


Josh Allen had the most time to throw in the NFL, wasn't sacked much, and was the only QB more inaccurate than Rosen. Bills are going to be drafting a new QB in about 3 years.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

in fairness

time to throw feels much more like a measure of how quickly the ball gets out of the QBs hands

as an example: Brady ranks 7th, Brees ranks 4th. They are clearly processing quickly, finding the right guy and delivering

A qb that isn't processing quickly, is holding the ball and searching will have higher times to throw

It's also about pressure though. The ball is coming out faster if you are getting pressured.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Sweet! I found what I was looking for. Thanks Football Outsiders

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

The Cardinals were ranked 26 out of 32 in offensive line. They allowed the 8th most sacks. They had the 7th highest adjusted sack rate.

So teams with worse pass protection were and their completion percentages:

Houston 68.3%
Miami 64.2%
Seattle 65.6%
Tennessee 68.9%
Dallas 67.7%
Jacksonville 60.3%
Arizona 55.2%

 

[RugbyMuffin]

in fairness

time to throw feels much more like a measure of how quickly the ball gets out of the QBs hands

as an example: Brady ranks 7th, Brees ranks 4th. They are clearly processing quickly, finding the right guy and delivering

A qb that isn't processing quickly, is holding the ball and searching will have higher times to throw

How old are those two again?

Experience counts.