How much of our cap space will be used for Boldin in August?

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by DieHardCardFan
I am very curious as to what you base this statement on? Forgive me if I am wrong but didnt he beat both of thier Rookie records on all levels??? So please tell me what you have based that statement on!

I would suggest though that Moss and Holt are better simply because they have played pretty damn consistently over their careers. The one year stats may show Boldin being better but I think the point would be, do you reward a player based on one year or do you try and see if he can keep up the production?

So, IMO, yes Moss and Holt (add Marvin harrison and TO too)are better and Boldin does not deserve their level of salary.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by DieHardCardFan
I am very curious as to what you base this statement on? Forgive me if I am wrong but didnt he beat both of thier Rookie records on all levels??? So please tell me what you have based that statement on!

If you want to talk about big rookie numbers, it actually supports my arguement. Did the guy that set the rookie yardage record go on to the Hall of Fame? What were his career numbers like?

Terry Glenn set the rookie record for catches. After that, he never had more than 79 catches and eclipsed 1000 yards only once. He hasn't scored more than 6 TDs in his career. The Pats gave him a big deal and instantly regretted it.

Let Quan win a couple games for us. Lets see if he can play as well in a new offense. Then give him his new deal. Please explain what the hurry is on this, besides PR.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by kerouac9
So what? This happens in the NFL all the time. Aaron Brooks was making less than his two backups his second year in New Orleans. Tommy Maddox was making less money that Stewart or Batch two years ago. Bailey was making less money than Arrington last season. Second-round picks out-perform higher drafted players all the time. Fred Wakefield has vastly outperformed KVB, should we give him a lot of money, too? Renaldo Hill has outperformed Duane Starks, should we give him a better deal than #21 (or whatever number he has now) has? What about Shipp and Emmitt?

Good PR policy, bad personnel policy. That's the long and the short of it. Let Quan do it again, then extend him.

I see your point but am I the only one who remembers Aaron Brooks salary becoming a huge distraction with threats of holdouts, trades etc? Why is Champ Bailey a Bronco now, because of his contract etc.I know Quan is not that type of guy, but in my mind, and maybe I'm crazy, this is a golden opportunity to show the NFL players that we can and WILL pay for quality players.

The one problem with my reasoning is if Quan is as good as we all think, he's going to be underpaid again in a few years anyways.


If it were me, I'd extend him in August, I think this is a totally different situation than Jake or some of the guys you mentioned, this is a guy who broke several NFL records, he did things no rookie WR had done before, I just find it hard to believe this isn't the beginning of a great career.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by DieHardCardFan
I am very curious as to what you base this statement on? Forgive me if I am wrong but didnt he beat both of thier Rookie records on all levels??? So please tell me what you have based that statement on!

I actually sort of agree with him, Quan is special because there was no learning curve, he knows how to find seams, run routes, catch in traffic, most of the things the typical Rookie WR can't do. So Quan is MUCH further along to his "ceiling" than say Andre Johnson.

I don't think AJ will ever be as good because he has bad hands, but Quan has less room to improve. The good thing is, he's so good already who cares?

 

[DieHardCardFan]

Originally posted by kerouac9
If you want to talk about big rookie numbers, it actually supports my arguement. Did the guy that set the rookie yardage record go on to the Hall of Fame? What were his career numbers like?

Terry Glenn set the rookie record for catches. After that, he never had more than 79 catches and eclipsed 1000 yards only once. He hasn't scored more than 6 TDs in his career. The Pats gave him a big deal and instantly regretted it.

Let Quan win a couple games for us. Lets see if he can play as well in a new offense. Then give him his new deal. Please explain what the hurry is on this, besides PR.

I am not agruing with the idea of waiting one more year to reward him. I am asking how you can make a statement that Quan will not be as good as Holt or Moss? Sorry that he forgot to break one record, but the kid is good, really good. And there is absolutely nothing to indicate that he wont be as good or better than Holt or Moss.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by DieHardCardFan
I am not agruing with the idea of waiting one more year to reward him. I am asking how you can make a statement that Quan will not be as good as Holt or Moss? Sorry that he forgot to break one record, but the kid is good, really good. And there is absolutely nothing to indicate that he wont be as good or better than Holt or Moss.

Rookie Stats:

Randy Moss: 16 G, 11 S, 69 Rec, 1313 Yds, 19.0 YPC, 17 TDs
Torry Holt: 16 G, 15 S, 52 Rec, 788 Yds, 15.2 YPC, 6 TDs
Anquan Boldin: 16 G, 16 S, 101 Rec, 1377 Yds, 13.6 YPC, 8 TDs.

All well and good, right? The problem is that Quan doesn't help the Cards win games the way that Moss and Holt do. It's a fact. In the games that the Cards won, Quan was essentially a non-factor. Does that take away from his individual accomplishments? Not at all. But I guarantee you that defensive coordinators worry much more on Monday about having to deal with Moss and Holt than Anquan.

I agree that Anquan is really, really good. I just don't think that he's the same kind of player as Moss, Holt, and Harrison. I don't think that he can single-handedly win games the way that the above three can and do. If you saw an example of when he did this season, please illustrate it. Until Anquan shows that he can take the team on his shoulders and win games (the way that, even I admit, Shipp has shown that he can for limited stretches), I'm hesitant to give Quan big money.

Joey Galloway is much the same. He's an amazing indiviual performer, but has never shown that he can win games on his own the way that M, H, & H can. That's one of the reasons that it was insane for the Cowboys to give up so much for him.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Rookie Stats:

Randy Moss: 16 G, 11 S, 69 Rec, 1313 Yds, 19.0 YPC, 17 TDs
Torry Holt: 16 G, 15 S, 52 Rec, 788 Yds, 15.2 YPC, 6 TDs
Anquan Boldin: 16 G, 16 S, 101 Rec, 1377 Yds, 13.6 YPC, 8 TDs.

Ehh, I dunno.

Quan's also practically a fullback on running downs.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Quan's also practically a fullback on running downs.

For as often as Shipp and Emmitt (or for that matter Anderson or Scobey) are able to get around the corner? Maybe if we get a good running back that can get around the corner, but to me a good WR is a good WR. One that can block is gravy.

I'd be fine giving Anquan an extention after this season similar to whatever Hines Ward makes, maybe even a little more, but until Anquan shows that he can take the team on his shoulders, I don't want to pay him like a game-breaker.

 

[jmr667]

Originally posted by kerouac9


I'd be fine giving Anquan an extention after this season similar to whatever Hines Ward makes, maybe even a little more, but until Anquan shows that he can take the team on his shoulders, I don't want to pay him like a game-breaker.

I know Quan is a team player and all, but I'd be ticked off if my boss used that logic on me. "Well, you see, the company stock did not go higher in the quarters during which you outperformed everyone you work with. So we are only going to give you a partial raise."

It's a team sport. You can't hold the best player accountable for the team's win-loss record.
Don't get me wrong, because it is a team sport you can't break the bank for one player. But you can't tell a player that, despite record breaking efforts well beyond our wildest hopes, we are not going to pay you like your peers until the team wins.

Not unless you are going to let the guy design and call the plays plus decide which other players to sign.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by jmr667
It's a team sport. You can't hold the best player accountable for the team's win-loss record.

Tell that to Peyton Manning. Or Brett Favre. Or Michael Vick.

Can you dispute the fact that Torry Holt, Randy Moss, and Marvin Harrison have the ability to singlehandedly take control of a game and win it for the team? These are players that, if you look at only their stats, you can pretty much determine whether or not the team won or loss.

To this point, you can't do that with Anquan. I'm not willing to pay him as a Top 10 reciever until I can see that he can help us get Ws. Maybe I'm alone on that.

 

[Rats]

AB is deserving of a raise. Even after one stellar season. But to get it the contract would have to benefit the Cards. If they have Cap space....ohh wait....when they have Cap space at the end of training camp they IMO should extend his contract and give him triple his gaurantee money and get two more years out of him. IF the cap space is there give it to him now and spread it out over the life of his contract. That would have him locked up for 4 or 5 more years. If he doesn't perform the Cap in future years isn't hurt as bad. He is only locked up 3 more years now. A higher offer now to him would be benificial for both sides. He gets more earlier in his contract and the Cards can have him longer than his original 4yr deal.

 

[JeffGollin]

But none of those guys mentioned above had production that even came close to what Boldin did.
And Anquan proved he was something special in the heart, commitment and "good person" departments.

I don't think this is an issue of a one-year wonder diddybopper exploding onto the scene with the likelihood of fizzling.

Boldin did unprecedented things and was a good teammate too.

But aside from all that warm fuzzy stuff, sometimes tearing up a contract early is smart business - if Anquan continues to ring up numbers like he did in his rookie season, his eventual re-upping price then might be significantly higher than what he'd be willing to sign for today.

 

[kerouac9]

This is insane. Think with your minds, not with your hearts, fellas. The Pats and Eagles didn't get good by extending the contracts of every player that had a good rookie season.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Tell that to Peyton Manning. Or Brett Favre. Or Michael Vick.

Can you dispute the fact that Torry Holt, Randy Moss, and Marvin Harrison have the ability to singlehandedly take control of a game and win it for the team? These are players that, if you look at only their stats, you can pretty much determine whether or not the team won or loss.

To this point, you can't do that with Anquan. I'm not willing to pay him as a Top 10 reciever until I can see that he can help us get Ws. Maybe I'm alone on that.

Holt in wins career 81.4 yards per game 16.3 YPC td every 10.3 C

in losses 92.8 yards per game 15.6 YPC td every 17.8 C

So I guess you're right, the more yards is clearly playing catchup but he does catch more td's in wins than losses. I didn't bother to look up Moss.

That's an excellent point, for all Quan did, we didn't win many games so how valuable can it have really been?

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by kerouac9
This is insane. Think with your minds, not with your hearts, fellas. The Pats and Eagles didn't get good by extending the contracts of every player that had a good rookie season.

You're right but name one non first rounder either team had that produced like Quan did?

It's tough, there's a lot more to it that I see after reading your posts, but there is some uncharted water here Quan was pretty much off the normal bell curve.

To be fair, I just flat out love Quan and I know you do too, and that makes it hard to be rational, part of me wants to give the kid more money as a thank you for giving this franchise some hope in a terribly depressing season. How bad would last year have been without him? Watching Blake fizzle when I was convinced he was a good sign, watching QB's have time to heat up a hot pocket before hitting a wide open WR, watching our offense frantically trying to line up in time before the delay of game penalty. So you're definitely right there's an element of using my heart not my head in this case with Quan.