How opponents are trending

[DVontel]

Ah, no. You can’t say every coach has a 73% winning percentage when they have their starting QB. Note, that’s all he said.

Okay.

*A lot of coaches.

 

[GatorAZ]

You can say that about any HC when comparing their records with vs without their starting QB. Shoutout to their elite defense in 2019, too. Where’s the blame gonna go this time if Shanny endures another losing season? Only Lynch?

Sorry I should’ve been more clear. I’m saying that record with Garappolo is very impressive given his limitations.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Okay.

*A lot of coaches.

Hmm I’m going to say you’re probably wrong. 73% winning percentage. For all games that your starting QB played. That’s like winning 12 games per season. No, not even “a lot” of coaches approach that with all games they have their starting QB.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Hmm I’m going to say you’re probably wrong. 73% winning percentage. For all games that your starting QB played. That’s like winning 12 games per season. No, not even “a lot” of coaches approach that with all games they have their starting QB.

I think the proof is in the pudding though. He has a losing record overall as a head coach.

You are your record.

 

[Shane]

I think the proof is in the pudding though. He has a losing record overall as a head coach.

You are your record.

Yep... You are what your record says you are. Always thought Shanny was overrated on this board.

 

[WakeForestCard]

What team is he gonna be on next year

Pittsburgh? Unless their season is completely shot to the point they can draft one of the top guys - but I don’t even know if any of the top QB prospects are hitting on all cylinders yet this year

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yep... You are what your record says you are. Always thought Shanny was overrated on this board.

I find it funny that some posters on this board will bend over backwards to criticize Kingsbury, yet fawn over Shanahan.

Shanahan is a good coach, but the combo of him and Lynch have made a lot of mistakes as well.

For all of the criticism of Kingsbury, his offense (and defense) has been ranked very highly. He has done this with a very flawed, yet exciting QB. I think his game management is below average, but he does put his offense in position to score a lot of points and if his offense was executed better, we wouldn't be talking about as many close losses.

I saw the stat recently where the Cardinals have been in 29 of 32 games over his first two seasons. That tells me he puts his team in position to win more often than not. Even the much venerated Arians had more losses where the Cardinals weren't in a game.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Pittsburgh? Unless their season is completely shot to the point they can draft one of the top guys - but I don’t even know if any of the top QB prospects are hitting on all cylinders yet this year

There isn't a clear top QB that you go hard at right now. No Trevor Lawrence.

Malik Willis is probably the top guy and he probably would have been at best the 3rd best QB in this past class, but there is an argument that he might have been 6th best if he was available.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think the proof is in the pudding though. He has a losing record overall as a head coach.

You are your record.

Yeah that’s how you’re ultimately judged. But if you were an owner and you saw that when this guy has a minimally effective starting QB he wins 73% of his games, I think you’d be likely to hire him over a college coach with also a losing record and no coaching experience in the NFL.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There isn't a clear top QB that you go hard at right now. No Trevor Lawrence.

Malik Willis is probably the top guy and he probably would have been at best the 3rd best QB in this past class, but there is an argument that he might have been 6th best if he was available.

Yup, this coming draft doesn’t have near the QB cache that the past few did. Even if some of those past ones end up flops (like Danny dimes, Hoskins, Rosen, a bunch from this draft) they were all legit top of draft and first round targets. I think there’s only Willis this year and rattler is playing his way outta the first from what I’ve read.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yup, this coming draft doesn’t have near the QB cache that the past few did. Even if some of those past ones end up flops (like Danny dimes, Hoskins, Rosen, a bunch from this draft) they were all legit top of draft and first round targets. I think there’s only Willis this year and rattler is playing his way outta the first from what I’ve read.

We've been spoiled for a few years now of good QB drafts. Even Danny Dimes has been ok, that Giants team is awful.

I wouldnt be surprised if only Lawrence is good from this years draft.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yeah that’s how you’re ultimately judged. But if you were an owner and you saw that when this guy has a minimally effective starting QB he wins 73% of his games, I think you’d be likely to hire him over a college coach with also a losing record and no coaching experience in the NFL.

We watched Arians go 8-8 with a lot of Blaine Gabbert and a WORSE roster than what Shanahan has had.

I hope the Niners stick with Shanahan because we've seen him have some pretty sorry teams that were fairly stacked other than QB.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We watched Arians go 8-8 with a lot of Blaine Gabbert and a WORSE roster than what Shanahan has had.

I hope the Niners stick with Shanahan because we've seen him have some pretty sorry teams that were fairly stacked other than QB.

Yeah but it’s pretty much been proven that arians is a stellar coach. Just because you can point to some top notch coaches doesn’t negate a 73% winning percentage with a passable QB. Would that have held up if jimmy g had never gotten hurt? Likely not. But even if it dropped 13 percentage points that’s still averaging 10 win seasons. And he’s reached a super bowl so he’s also proven, give me a reasonable NFL QB and I can win in the playoffs.

You want discount his coaching ability, that’s your prerogative. But from what I’ve seen he’s a good coach when he has some minimum tools.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We watched Arians go 8-8 with a lot of Blaine Gabbert and a WORSE roster than what Shanahan has had.

I hope the Niners stick with Shanahan because we've seen him have some pretty sorry teams that were fairly stacked other than QB.

I think most teams, even “fairly stacked” teams will have poor results if they are forced to play with second and third string QBs. And that’s what he had when jimmy g wasn’t available. Let’s not pretend he had teddy Bridgewater or other journeymen starting QBs. He had second and third string QBs. As for stacked . . . pedestrian WRs and RBs who were pretty much journeymen or retreads (and shanahan made those rbs all look great), a very good oline, a great but oft injured TE, and a talented defense that also had a slew of injuries. So I’m not sure I’d agree with “stacked.” On paper on the line and D, okay. But that’s on paper.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yeah but it’s pretty much been proven that arians is a stellar coach. Just because you can point to some top notch coaches doesn’t negate a 73% winning percentage with a passable QB. Would that have held up if jimmy g had never gotten hurt? Likely not. But even if it dropped 13 percentage points that’s still averaging 10 win seasons. And he’s reached a super bowl so he’s also proven, give me a reasonable NFL QB and I can win in the playoffs.

You want discount his coaching ability, that’s your prerogative. But from what I’ve seen he’s a good coach when he has some minimum tools.

I'm not saying he's bad, but I do think he's overrated a bit on this board.

Hes a good coach but he has his warts too.

 

[DVontel]

I actually remember this thread after listening to this.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

I don’t know if I can post a podcast link here @Chris_Sanders (sorry), but if you fast forward to 36:45. They describe why Shanahan criticism is warranted @Krangthebrain @Ouchie-Z-Clown @GatorAZ. Very interesting listen.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I actually remember this thread after listening to this.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

I don’t know if I can post a podcast link here @Chris_Sanders (sorry), but if you fast forward to 36:45. They describe why Shanahan criticism is warranted @Krangthebrain @Ouchie-Z-Clown @GatorAZ. Very interesting listen.

Eh their only real criticism was personnel related. Having conviction in the wrong guys and oft-injured players. That’s not really what we are talking about. Yes, it has a place in the equation of a coach, but that’s ultimately the GMs job. If the GM abdicates too much decisionmaking to the coach in terms of personnel that’s more a GM issue than a coach issue. They mention game management but only fleetingly and without any concrete items.

Again I’ll return to: he’s got a 73% winning record with jimmy g. People want to raise his overall record. If we removed kyler from the cardinals for the same percentage of games jimmy g has missed, what would kliffs overall winning percentage be? I believe you can same about virtually every team. Lose a legit starting QB your winning percentage is going to plummet.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Eh their only real criticism was personnel related. Having conviction in the wrong guys and oft-injured players. That’s not really what we are talking about. Yes, it has a place in the equation of a coach, but that’s ultimately the GMs job. If the GM abdicates too much decisionmaking to the coach in terms of personnel that’s more a GM issue than a coach issue. They mention game management but only fleetingly and without any concrete items.

Again I’ll return to: he’s got a 73% winning record with jimmy g. People want to raise his overall record. If we removed kyler from the cardinals for the same percentage of games jimmy g has missed, what would kliffs overall winning percentage be? I believe you can same about virtually every team. Lose a legit starting QB your winning percentage is going to plummet.

Sounds like you're describing a really good offensive coordinator to me. He has a losing record as a head coach.

In the modern NFL, head coaches have a ton of say in player acquistion AND who makes the roster. Even top coordinators get input on these decisions. So to abdicate responsibility for his losing record isn't fully warranted. He gets a partial pass, which is why he is still employed.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Sounds like you're describing a really good offensive coordinator to me. He has a losing record as a head coach.

In the modern NFL, head coaches have a ton of say in player acquistion AND who makes the roster. Even top coordinators get input on these decisions. So to abdicate responsibility for his losing record isn't fully warranted. He gets a partial pass, which is why he is still employed.

You haven’t once addressed the elephant in the room. When he has an adequate (not even great) QB he wins 73% of the time.

If you want to rank coaches, fine. But if you’re hiring a coach that speaks HUGE volumes to me. It says identify a good QB and keep him healthy (invest in an oline) and this guy is going to take your team places. I guess you’d pass on him if you were the owner/gm, and that would be your choice. I’d have to consider him given that data.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You haven’t once addressed the elephant in the room. When he has an adequate (not even great) QB he wins 73% of the time.

If you want to rank coaches, fine. But if you’re hiring a coach that speaks HUGE volumes to me. It says identify a good QB and keep him healthy (invest in an oline) and this guy is going to take your team places. I guess you’d pass on him if you were the owner/gm, and that would be your choice. I’d have to consider him given that data.

But that time period is pretty truncated. We don't really know if the Niners would keep up that pace either.

They are .500 this year with Garapolo starting, and don't really looke like a .730 team or whatever they are with him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

But that time period is pretty truncated. We don't really know if the Niners would keep up that pace either.

They are .500 this year with Garapolo starting, and don't really looke like a .730 team or whatever they are with him.

Lol. That time period is “truncated” but a 4 game sample size should be noteworthy.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Lol. That time period is “truncated” but a 4 game sample size should be noteworthy.

I'm using a 4 season sample size overall. He has a sub .500 record.

You can pick out the one season where everything went right and they went to the Super Bowl. Even Rex Grossman has a year like that, it happens.

But you can't discount that Shanahan is also responsible for his record. Lynch isn't making ALL of the personnel decisions, that's not how the NFL works at all, especially for high profile coaches like Shanahan and McVay.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Lol. That time period is “truncated” but a 4 game sample size should be noteworthy.

Well he was only 3-3 last season. After 13-3 he is 5-5.

That 13-3 season he posted highs in every offensive catagory. This makes sense as it was his age 28 season. Even that peak season though was pretty average.

Jimmy G is the prototype guy who you can win with if you have a great supporting cast. When the injuries hit, he can't elevate the rest.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm using a 4 season sample size overall. He has a sub .500 record.

You can pick out the one season where everything went right and they went to the Super Bowl. Even Rex Grossman has a year like that, it happens.

But you can't discount that Shanahan is also responsible for his record. Lynch isn't making ALL of the personnel decisions, that's not how the NFL works at all, especially for high profile coaches like Shanahan and McVay.

I’m not choosing a single season. And you know it. I’m focused on the stat that was provided that shows a 73% winning percentage for games jimmy g started. But keep trying to move those goalposts.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well he was only 3-3 last season. After 13-3 he is 5-5.

That 13-3 season he posted highs in every offensive catagory. This makes sense as it was his age 28 season. Even that peak season though was pretty average.

Jimmy G is the prototype guy who you can win with if you have a great supporting cast. When the injuries hit, he can't elevate the rest.

This post completely misses the entire conversation. We aren’t discussing jimmy g. We are discussing shanahan’s record when he has an adequate QB.