I am so sick of Kurt Freaking Warner

[CaptTurbo]

Did you not notice the 3 straight running plays near the goal line on our first possession? It looked like we were trying to run more this game and then fell too far behind again.

I noticed it. I dont really count running from the 1 as 'sticking with your running game' Im talking more about 3 min to go in the half against a dime defense with 2 timeouts and not calling one running play. Or when we rarely run between the 20's even thought the game is close and we are averging 4+ yards a run.

 

[cardsfanmd]

I think alot of you guys are missing the point of the thread. My intent was not to lay blame solely on Warner. I was "voicing" my frustration with the play of our QB in the most critical game of the year. In fact the last two games have been atrocious. Anyone with half a brain can recognize that this is a team game and a team loss.

Warner is by far the most celebrated veteran we have and he did not have anything that can be remotely considered a good game. His lack of care for the football is completely unacceptable especially with his experience and the stakes involved. This has been the knock on him for years now and he just does not seem to give a damn.

People keep pointing to the fact that he is our backup QB... so what? How hard is it to take care of the freaking ball when you are under pressure?

There are plenty of other threads talking about all aspects of the game. Why is it so wrong to have a thread about the most important position on the field?

You make zero sense as usual. What evidence do you possess that tells you that he doesn't care. Everything I have heard and seen tells me that he really cares about what is going on and takes his job as seriously as anyone on the team. I dont even want to go on with this pointless arguement anymore.

 

[clif]

You make zero sense as usual. What evidence do you possess that tells you that he doesn't care. Everything I have heard and seen tells me that he really cares about what is going on and takes his job as seriously as anyone on the team. I dont even want to go on with this pointless arguement anymore.

Have you ever heard of tucking the ball away? Have you ever heard of throwing the ball away when there is no one open? Have you heard of pocket presence?

 

[Cheesebeef]

You make zero sense as usual. What evidence do you possess that tells you that he doesn't care. Everything I have heard and seen tells me that he really cares about what is going on and takes his job as seriously as anyone on the team. I dont even want to go on with this pointless arguement anymore.

you misread what he wrote. He's not saying "he doesn't care about football." He's saying he doesn't take care of THE football as evidenced by the high amount of turnovers he's had since he get benched on the Rams.

 

[cardsfanmd]

you misread what he wrote. He's not saying "he doesn't care about football." He's saying he doesn't take care of THE football as evidenced by the high amount of turnovers he's had since he get benched on the Rams.

Then he should not have written "he just does not seem to give a damn".

 

[clif]

Then he should not have written "he just does not seem to give a damn".

about the football

 

[jefftheshark]

We all knew going into the game that our D was on life-support. Due to injuries we were missing half of our starting secondary, to go along with the already missing half of our D-Line. Knowing this, there is no excuse whatsoever for Warner to not understand the importance of keeping the ball in our possession.

This lack of care in protecting the ball is what drove Plummer out of town. We are seeing the same thing with Warner and it should quite rightfully be a topic of conversation on this board. That Warner is, or is not, a "back-up" is not the point. The point is that our starting QB is as great a liability as he is an asset.

I, for one, will be very happy if Leinart relegates Warner to bench and he is never seen of again, except for Public Service Announcements and his charitable good works.

JTS

 

[cardsfanmd]

Have you ever heard of tucking the ball away? Have you ever heard of throwing the ball away when there is no one open? Have you heard of pocket presence?

I completely get what you're saying, but what makes Warner so good sometimes is also what makes him so bad at others. The man is fearless and keeps his eyes downfield until he throws the ball or is thrown to the ground. Keep in mind, for every hit and fumble he has, he also completes two or three big plays that many QBs would have thrown away or tucked and been sacked. If he had a bit more time in the pocket, this really would be a non-issue. I will take the good with the bad.

 

[Rivercard]

I completely get what you're saying, but what makes Warner so good sometimes is also what makes him so bad at others. The man is fearless and keeps his eyes downfield until he throws the ball or is thrown to the ground. Keep in mind, for every hit and fumble he has, he also completes two or three big plays that many QBs would have thrown away or tucked and been sacked. If he had a bit more time in the pocket, this really would be a non-issue. I will take the good with the bad.

Let's face it, he's much more effecetive as a back-up or when inserted briefly in a hurry-up offense situation. When opponents have time to prepare for Warner we usually struggle.

 

[clif]

I completely get what you're saying, but what makes Warner so good sometimes is also what makes him so bad at others. The man is fearless and keeps his eyes downfield until he throws the ball or is thrown to the ground. Keep in mind, for every hit and fumble he has, he also completes two or three big plays that many QBs would have thrown away or tucked and been sacked. If he had a bit more time in the pocket, this really would be a non-issue. I will take the good with the bad.

Yes but his bad has been down right terrible the last 2 weeks. He has to take care of the ball better. Sometimes we don't need him to be a hero we just need him to make the smart safe play. This is not Warner circa 1999 this is an older, beat up, concussed Warner who needs to get the ball to his playmakers... not backup TE's who are triple covered in the middle of the field.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Please stop attempting to bait me into an arguement.

you called him a moron and HE'S baiting YOU into an argument?

 

[clif]

Please stop attempting to bait me into an arguement.

I vioced my opinion, take it for what it is. It's not my fault that you write moronic things from time to time and I happen to read them and then tell you how wrong you are. I write stupid things and get blasted all of the time for them. I'll bet you 20 asfn bucks that if I post on this thread two or three more times Pariah will be in here to call me an idiot for something. Most likely, he will be correct.

That is what a message board is about. If we all agreed about everything or were always right about everything that we say, then it would be pointless to come here.

I will finish this with a fitting quote from Jerry Maguire: "See Jerry, you think we're argueing, but I say we're finally communicating"

In order to keep the thread on topic I removed my comment. I don't personally care for the way you respond to my posts. Disagree all you want.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Yes but his bad has been down right terrible the last 2 weeks. He has to take care of the ball better. Sometimes we don't need him to be a hero we just need him to make the smart safe play. This is not Warner circa 1999 this is an older, beat up, concussed Warner who needs to get the ball to his playmakers... not backup TE's who are triple covered in the middle of the field.

With the way our D is playing, he is pretty much forced to take all of these chances just to keep us in the game IMO.

Bieneman(sp?) is a professional. Warner should be able to count on him catching a ball that hits him in the hands. The D was playing a cover-2, and Warner put the ball where he should have to beat that package. The problem I have with that play is that had Benewhatever caught the ball everyone would have said great throw, good play. He drops it, and all of the sudden it is Warner's fault.

I think many people will be in for a rude awakening when Leinart (or anyone else) is in the game. Warner makes about 5 throws a game that only two or three other QBs in the game could have a chance of making. His accuracy is unbelievable. Once again, I know the guy is not the player he was, but with decent protection I really think he is still better than what many teams have in their starter.

 

[moklerman]

Warner threw to a journeyman in triple coverage at a critical time in the game. That doesn't make me want to castrate him.

It was single coverage. The safety came late and put on the hit that caused the drop/interception. I couldn't see the whole field so I don't know for sure if that was the right read but single coverage vs. a LB seems like the right place to go.

The offensive coordinator didn't seem to like it much either, did he?

I don't remember a sideline shot after that play. Are you talking about the fumble?

His lack of care for the football is completely unacceptable especially with his experience and the stakes involved.

The Seattle game I agree. Yesterday I don't. He had one bad play that resulted in a turnover and good field position for the Saints.

How hard is it to take care of the freaking ball when you are under pressure?

You could ask Favre(8) and Romo(9) and Cutler(8) and Kitna(15) and Roethlisberger(9) and Hasslebeck(8) and Eli(7) and Rivers(10)...should I go on? Even the almighty Brady has 5 fumbles. That's behind the BEST pass-blocking o-line in football.

Have you ever heard of throwing the ball away when there is no one open?

With this rag-tag group, that would be quite often.

Have you heard of pocket presence?

Like the TD pass to the TE? I understand your frusturation but on this team, do you really expect ANY QB to play mistake free football? The penalties, the lack of a running game, the coaching inefficieny, the injuries, etc. They all add up to an offense that isn't going to be flawless. Yesterday, Warner took too big of a risk on the play where he was stripped. Other than that, the INT was on the TE and he threw 3 TD's. What do you realistically expect? Mistake free football is not an option.

 

[cardsfanmd]

you called him a moron and HE'S baiting YOU into an argument?

please show me where I said that

 

[clif]

With the way our D is playing, he is pretty much forced to take all of these chances just to keep us in the game IMO.

Bieneman(sp?) is a professional. Warner should be able to count on him catching a ball that hits him in the hands. The D was playing a cover-2, and Warner put the ball where he should have to beat that package. The problem I have with that play is that had Benewhatever caught the ball everyone would have said great throw, good play. He drops it, and all of the sudden it is Warner's fault.

I think many people will be in for a rude awakening when Leinart (or anyone else) is in the game. Warner makes about 5 throws a game that only two or three other QBs in the game could have a chance of making. His accuracy is unbelievable. Once again, I know the guy is not the player he was, but with decent protection I really think he is still better than what many teams have in their starter.

First off, were you really suprised that Bieneman dropped that ball? Has this guy ever made a catch after contact? The guy was backing up Pope who has some of the worst hands I have ever seen so throwing to this guy in that situation is not a good move IMO.

I would have rather seen Matt make the mistakes Kurt is making with the idea that he will learn from them. Not Kurt. He is a former MVP and a superbowl winner... who has a penchant for turning the ball over. That is not acceptable under any circumstance. The guy should know better.

 

[moklerman]

The guy was backing up Pope who has some of the worst hands I have ever seen so throwing to this guy in that situation is not a good move IMO.

Seriously? James can't catch, Fitz and Boldin are hobbled and get no seperation, Urban and Breaston are huge question marks. Where exactly does Warner go with the ball that isn't a risk?

 

[Duckjake]

Other than that, the INT was on the TE

You also have to put it on the Saints defender who ran head first into our TE as the ball arrived. The Saints player never looked for the ball he just turned around and ran straight at and into Bienaman.

I still say that if a Cardinal defender had done that they'd have been called for PI.

 

[cardsfanmd]

First off, were you really suprised that Bieneman dropped that ball? Has this guy ever made a catch after contact? The guy was backing up Pope who has some of the worst hands I have ever seen so throwing to this guy in that situation is not a good move IMO.

I would have rather seen Matt make the mistakes Kurt is making with the idea that he will learn from them. Not Kurt. He is a former MVP and a superbowl winner... who has a penchant for turning the ball over. That is not acceptable under any circumstance. The guy should know better.

I dont blame Kurt for throwing a catchable ball to a professional reciever. I too would rather have Matt in the game, but that is impossible, so why cry over spilled milk.

Like you said, Kurt is a vet. He has played this way his whole career and I assure you he isn't gonna change anytime soon. I will finish by asking you to just please tell me 5 backups you would rather have.

 

[Spielman]

I've tried to avoid saying anything negative about anybody here, and I don't really want to criticize any fans of this franchise. God know you've deserved better.

But damn. For fans of a franchise that has seen the level of QB play this one has in the last twenty years, for fans who have put up with Timm Rosenbach and Stan Gelbaugh... well, you're one helluva a tough crowd.

Warner's passing TD to turnover (INT+fumbles lost) ratio as a Cardinal: .883 to 1.
The passing TD to INT ratio of all other Cardinal QBs in 20 seasons: .807 to 1.

Note that this does not include any fumbles by those other QBs.

I overestimated the Cards this year. I didn't overestimate Warner; he's done pretty much what I expected him to. I overestimated the defense. Badly. They allowed Brees to go 26/30. That's all I can really say about that.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I've tried to avoid saying anything negative about anybody here, and I don't really want to criticize any fans of this franchise. God know you've deserved better.

But damn. For fans of a franchise that has seen the level of QB play this one has in the last twenty years, for fans who have put up with Timm Rosenbach and Stan Gelbaugh... well, you're one helluva a tough crowd.

Warner's passing TD to turnover (INT+fumbles lost) ratio as a Cardinal: .883 to 1.
The passing TD to INT ratio of all other Cardinal QBs in 20 seasons: .807 to 1.

Note that this does not include any fumbles by those other QBs.

being better than former Cardinals is nothing to be proud of considering how horrific our QB situation's been for two decades. The NFL is the measuring stick for success, not previous Cardinals teams.

 

[ajcardfan]

being better than former Cardinals is nothing to be proud of considering how horrific our QB situation's been for two decades. The NFL is the measuring stick for success, not previous Cardinals teams.

I think the Bears would give us both Orton and Griese for Warner.

You're right. At this point, Warner can't carry a team for a season. He's a good backup, ideal to fill in for a half or a game or two. Our biggest concern at QB for next year, is not Warner. It's whether Leinart can play well AND stay healthy. We can try to go and improve over Warner, but that is a huge luxury buy for a team with our needs.

 

[Spielman]

being better than former Cardinals is nothing to be proud of considering how horrific our QB situation's been for two decades. The NFL is the measuring stick for success, not previous Cardinals teams.

*shrug* Just saying.

I think you've elevated this one statistic to heights it doesn't deserve, anyway.

 

[Cheesebeef]

*shrug* Just saying.

I think you've elevated this one statistic to heights it doesn't deserve, anyway.

what statistic? The turnover ratio? IMO, that's pretty much the most important stat in the whole game.

 

[moklerman]

what statistic? The turnover ratio? IMO, that's pretty much the most important stat in the whole game.

I agree, but not out of context. Rather than comparing against the Dallas, GB, Indy, NE teams of the league, loot at all the cellar dwellars with no running game, bad special teams and bad defenses. Just about everything about the Card's is rated middle to worst. Warner is #11 (top 10 in TD's).