I do not like how our OL is shaping up so far

[HGC]

He was very good for an overall Super Bowl winning team that didn't leave him out there to dry, and has a QB with one of the fastest releases in the league.

"Franchise" players do not become available for third round picks. They don't get let go into free agency by teams. I'll practically guarantee you that three years down the line we're looking at the guy as a mid-low left tackle option, not a guy that warrants being the highest paid player at his position.

Kugler and Kingsbury aren’t magicians. The offensive line is far and away the biggest need on this football team and Brown was clearly the best available player. I couldn’t care less abou 3 years from now I care about this season. If he sucks the second year you cut him lose with no cap hit.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm beginning to see the light. Drafting Murray would be insurance for the offensive line.

 

[Solar7]

Kugler and Kingsbury aren’t magicians. The offensive line is far and away the biggest need on this football team and Brown was clearly the best available player. I couldn’t care less abou 3 years from now I care about this season. If he sucks the second year you cut him lose with no cap hit.

Apparently you don't know how the cap works. You can't just cut guys, their guaranteed money is stuck with you. The Raiders are stuck with Trent Brown's absurd contract for years, and will have to keep him, even if he blows chunks.

 

[Bert]

Seahawks fans seem to be enamored with Iupati but I couldn’t wait to see him go.

Mike Iupati is really really good in the 3 games he plays every season.

 

[HGC]

Apparently you don't know how the cap works. You can't just cut guys, their guaranteed money is stuck with you. The Raiders are stuck with Trent Brown's absurd contract for years, and will have to keep him, even if he blows chunks.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/trenton-brown-16970/

They have an out after the 2nd year.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

You know you are in trouble when Mason Cole is the bright spot on the O-line. It’s a problem that can’t be fixed through free agency or this draft. We need a creative offense and have brought in the right coaching staff. Unfortunately, there is no Joe Thomas in this draft. Gotta go with the crew that Keim brung us

 

[Solar7]

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/trenton-brown-16970/

They have an out after the 2nd year.

They're stuck with him for at least two years, and are paying him $21 million dollars in year two. That is at least two years of investment in the player. Who is again, being paid as the best at his position. Do you think he'll really be that good? Come on.

 

[HGC]

They're stuck with him for at least two years, and are paying him $21 million dollars in year two. That is at least two years of investment in the player. Who is again, being paid as the best at his position. Do you think he'll really be that good? Come on.

The guy just anchored the offensive line of the Super Bowl Champions so I’m cool being “stuck” with him. I’m aware that it’s Brady and Belichick but Trent Brown was a beast for them all year. So yes the thought of Brown who’s in his prime being coached by Kulger and protecting Josh Rosen is appealing. Marcus Gilbert is 31 and finshed his last 2 seasons on IR.

 

[BigRedRage]

I can't get past "just in case keim comes here"

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[ajcardfan]

Well, you are just setting yourself up for perpetual disappointment if you expect this franchise to ever "fix" the offensive line. We have stumbled into a couple of decent ones, but man, what an abysmal history. I don't take what the team does with the line very seriously. It is more like the annual question is, "Can the Arizona Cardinals improve other parts of the team to a degree where they compensate for what will be a below average offensive line?"

I will say this is a crappy looking draft for olinemen. So, adding what we did in free agency is at least logical.

 

[TJ]

Kyler is the greatest QB I have seen in my life


Kyler isn’t God, God is Kyler

Chuck Norris keeps one eye open for Kyler Murray in his sleep.

 

[Dayman]

This line will always be problematic until we learn how to draft and develop O-linemen correctly. The line should at least be above average by now, considering all of the resources that have been dumped into it the last few years. Instead, people are lauding Mason Cole as a building block for the future, which kind of baffles me after watching him getting shoved off the ball all year.

Sean Kulger is probably the biggest addition to the line we will make this season. If he is everything we hear he is and can actually start developing young guys into solid players, the free agent stopgaps will be of little importance. If he can't, we will continue to riddle through the JR Sweezeys of the league every offseason. Getting guys without extensive injury histories would also help.

 

[cardpa]

Don’t worry


Kyler is gonna make them look better by evading all the DLinemen

While a blitzing LB takes his head off.

 

[TRW]

While a blitzing LB takes his head off.

Nah...he's so short he won't even have to duck...

 

[CFLredzoned]

You know you are in trouble when Mason Cole is the bright spot on the O-line. It’s a problem that can’t be fixed through free agency or this draft. We need a creative offense and have brought in the right coaching staff. Unfortunately, there is no Joe Thomas in this draft. Gotta go with the crew that Keim brung us

That's the part that bothers me. Nobody stands out. You'd like to have at least one probowler on your OL. Of course those guys rarely come in FA, so you have to draft them. So yeah, you do just have to roll with what you have and throw bodies at it.

 

[BACH]

Just in case Keim comes on here or even cares about our forum. Depth guys and injured guys with the moxie of OL men which is 'nasty' does not cut it for me. Granted there are not many top of the line free agents, so then you better trade and maybe do better than the RT from Pittsburgh. Maybe I am jumping to conclusions, but this looks like the same damn approach as the last couple of years of OL ineptitude. It's not a freaking question of has DJ lost his burst or intensity, or will we draft Murray or stick with Rosen, but the freaking line. Yes, we got Cole in the draft but everyone else is a availability question mark except for a journeyman named JR Sweezy from the less than stellar Seahawk OL which has taught Wilson how to run... just hoping these recent moves are Kugler's with a open say and not Keim giving in to only the bargain basement options he might suggest

Fair enough..

But what are the options at this point?

O-Linemen are increasingly becoming a scarce resource in the league. Considering the amount of money being thrown at very average O-linemen in Free Agency, I think Keim is acting very smart. I will, however, point solely on him not prioritizing O-linemen in the first half draft.

 

[Cardsmasochist]

The Patriots were able to figure it out a long time ago....

The five most commonly used linemen this season for New England were left tackle Trent Brown, left guard Joe Thuney, center David Andrews, right guard Shaq Mason and right tackle Marcus Cannon. That quintet combined to start 75 of a possible 80 games along the offensive line. Here's how the Patriots acquired those players:
Brown, a former seventh-round pick of the 49ers in 2015, was acquired last offseason as part of a pick swap. The Patriots sent the No. 95 overall pick in the 2018 draft to San Francisco in exchange for Brown and the No. 143 pick, which is essentially like giving up a mid-fourth round pick for a starting left tackle.
Thuney was a third-round pick in 2016. He has started all 48 regular-season games for the Patriots since that point.
Andrews was signed as an undrafted free agent out of Georgia in 2015. He made the team out of camp and started right away, and has started 57 of a possible 64 games since.
Mason was selected with a 2015 fourth-round pick. He played as part of a rotation during the early part of his rookie season before sliding into the lineup for good, and has blossomed into one of the very best guards in the league.
Cannon was a fifth-round pick in 2011 who started a grand total of 11 games in his first four years. He slid into the lineup for an injured starter in 2015 and never gave up the spot, and has started every game that he has been healthy over the past four seasons.
That's a full offensive line built out of mid- and late-round picks. That's pretty ridiculous in and of itself. But that group was not sieve-like, which you would expect such a unit to be. Rather, it was arguably the single best line in the league this season, ranking third in Adjusted Line Yards, first in Adjusted Sack Rate and third in pressure rate. All for the ridiculously low cost of just $14,539,489 against the cap. By way of comparison, consider the Chargers, who took on a cap hit of $14,968,750 this year for just left tackle Russell Okung, who gave up more sacks during the Chargers' divisional round loss to the Patriots (one) than the Patriots have all postseason.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...-as-its-ever-been-and-thats-saying-something/





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[RON_IN_OC]

Can it really be worse than last year?

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[azsouthendzone]

Just in case Keim comes on here or even cares about our forum

I hope to hell he doesn't do either of these things.

 

[azsouthendzone]

While a blitzing LB takes his head off.

So many people on here are going to look like fools come the fall. We really need to put together an archive of all of the posts doubting Kyler to look back and laugh.

 

[slanidrac16]

This line will always be problematic until we learn how to draft and develop O-linemen correctly. The line should at least be above average by now, considering all of the resources that have been dumped into it the last few years. Instead, people are lauding Mason Cole as a building block for the future, which kind of baffles me after watching him getting shoved off the ball all year.

Sean Kulger is probably the biggest addition to the line we will make this season. If he is everything we hear he is and can actually start developing young guys into solid players, the free agent stopgaps will be of little importance. If he can't, we will continue to riddle through the JR Sweezeys of the league every offseason. Getting guys without extensive injury histories would also help.

Great post. Coaching will play a big role starting this year. I liken it to boxing. You don’t ask your boxer to trade punches with a puncher. Some of the best lineman are drafted in later rounds. It helps when you have a stable coaching staff and system in place. Last year set this franchise back at least a full year. As far as Cole my hats off to this kid. He was thrown into the fire and at times at least held his own. I think Cole is going to come to camp a little bigger and stronger. I think we are going to see more traps and counters than we ever seen. We are going to see the ball out of our qbs hand much quicker than we witnessed last year. Those things alone will help this line. Better than asking our “ boxers” to go outpunch the likes of Donald and Suh.

 

[GuernseyCard]

So many people on here are going to look like fools come the fall. We really need to put together an archive of all of the posts doubting Kyler to look back and laugh.

Or vice-versa!

 

[Totally_Red]

This line will always be problematic until we learn how to draft and develop O-linemen correctly. The line should at least be above average by now, considering all of the resources that have been dumped into it the last few years. Instead, people are lauding Mason Cole as a building block for the future, which kind of baffles me after watching him getting shoved off the ball all year.

Sean Kulger is probably the biggest addition to the line we will make this season. If he is everything we hear he is and can actually start developing young guys into solid players, the free agent stopgaps will be of little importance. If he can't, we will continue to riddle through the JR Sweezeys of the league every offseason. Getting guys without extensive injury histories would also help.

If Sean Kugler is the great line coach he has been billed as, that alone will mean significant improvement for our offensive line. Louis Riddick said on ESPN the other day, that offensive line coach may be the second most important coach on an NFL staff.

 

[BW52]

The Patriots were able to figure it out a long time ago....

The five most commonly used linemen this season for New England were left tackle Trent Brown, left guard Joe Thuney, center David Andrews, right guard Shaq Mason and right tackle Marcus Cannon. That quintet combined to start 75 of a possible 80 games along the offensive line. Here's how the Patriots acquired those players:
Brown, a former seventh-round pick of the 49ers in 2015, was acquired last offseason as part of a pick swap. The Patriots sent the No. 95 overall pick in the 2018 draft to San Francisco in exchange for Brown and the No. 143 pick, which is essentially like giving up a mid-fourth round pick for a starting left tackle.
Thuney was a third-round pick in 2016. He has started all 48 regular-season games for the Patriots since that point.
Andrews was signed as an undrafted free agent out of Georgia in 2015. He made the team out of camp and started right away, and has started 57 of a possible 64 games since.
Mason was selected with a 2015 fourth-round pick. He played as part of a rotation during the early part of his rookie season before sliding into the lineup for good, and has blossomed into one of the very best guards in the league.
Cannon was a fifth-round pick in 2011 who started a grand total of 11 games in his first four years. He slid into the lineup for an injured starter in 2015 and never gave up the spot, and has started every game that he has been healthy over the past four seasons.
That's a full offensive line built out of mid- and late-round picks. That's pretty ridiculous in and of itself. But that group was not sieve-like, which you would expect such a unit to be. Rather, it was arguably the single best line in the league this season, ranking third in Adjusted Line Yards, first in Adjusted Sack Rate and third in pressure rate. All for the ridiculously low cost of just $14,539,489 against the cap. By way of comparison, consider the Chargers, who took on a cap hit of $14,968,750 this year for just left tackle Russell Okung, who gave up more sacks during the Chargers' divisional round loss to the Patriots (one) than the Patriots have all postseason.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...-as-its-ever-been-and-thats-saying-something/





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Interesting .I wonder is how many OLINE picks did the Patriots make that didn`t have any impact or where gone after a year or two.Its not likely they hit on every trade or draft pick.

 

[JeffGollin]

Is there a difference. between protoypical linemen playing in a standard (pocket/playaction) offense and those fitting the offense to be installed by Kingsbury?

If so, what are those differences and are we bringing in new linemen who better fit the new scheme? If so, how so?

(& just to start trouble) do the linemen we're bringing in tip off who will be our QB next season?