I Don't Blame Keim

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
38,420
Reaction score
29,831
Location
Gilbert, AZ
I don't think this is all his fault. Let's start from the premise that Steve Wilks wasn't his choice, and neither was Mike McCoy. I'm fairly certain on the first premise; I'm less so on the second. But let's say that Michael Bidwill chose Wilks and Wilks chose McCoy.

I don't think that Keim was responsible for:
1) The linebacker situation. Our linebackers are very bad! But I think that Wilks told Keim that he could work with Deone and Reddick.

2) Defensive scheme change. I refuse to believe that Wilks lied to everyone about scheme/system when he was hired. I think he hoped he could make it work, and there turned out to be more departure from the Bettcher version of the 3-4 than was anticipated.

3) David Johnson being bad. No one expected this.

4) Sam Bradford and his dumb contract. We couldn't have known that there'd be a rookie QB available to us. If your new coaching staff asks for Bradford instead of Keenum or Bridgewater, I think you have to give it to 'em.

Things I do hold Keim responsible for:
1) The wide receiver situation. Even with a veteran quarterback playing above-average football, Fitz, Chad Williams, and [Draft pick TBD] made little sense as a starting group, and there was no depth behind them. Putting your faith in Brice Butler and Greg Little to make this group better was a non-starter.

2) Releasing Honey Badger. I think we'll find out more about this in the next year if Wilks decides that Patrick Peterson isn't worth the salary. This team would be better with both Mathieu and Baker.

3) The Offensive Line. I know Harry likes to harp on this, but I disagree about "the Eggshell Line." Huge failures from Jonathan Cooper and (maybe) Jared Veldheer plus the inability of a handful of mid- and late-round draft picks to separate put this unit behind schedule. After next season, we're married to Justin Pugh and that's it.

Things I give Keim credit for:
1) The defensive line. I was wrong about Benson Mayowa. He's a starting-caliber player who was probably playing better than Markus Golden is right now. There is good depth on this unit, even if guys like Olson Pierre have regressed a little due to injury and the scheme change. Defensive line depth is one of the most difficult things to build in the NFL, and we have it.

2) The defensive secondary. I still think that this is one of the better groups in the league. We have good depth across the board, and if the defensive scheme can settle itself (and is actually fundamentally sound), this could be a good unit. Keim has developed expertise at reworking a secondary on the fly almost every season, and that's a pretty great skill in today's NFL.

The draft class is such a crap shoot, and we're not gonna know for a couple of years how Kirk fits in and whether Cole is actually good. THose look good right now, but there's lots of time.

There are some YUUUGE decisions to make next offseason.
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
87,712
Reaction score
39,024
David Johnson isnt bad. Just put in a bad scheme.


I agree scheme is a problem but DJ has been bad this year compared to what we thought we were going to get. he's dropping passes, missing blitz pickups, fumbling, and until last night he wasn't consistently running hard IMO.

I thought he played better last night, if we had not fallen behind so fast, he might have gotten close to 100 yards.
 

MadCardDisease

Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
20,813
Reaction score
14,788
Location
Chandler, Az
I agree scheme is a problem but DJ has been bad this year compared to what we thought we were going to get. he's dropping passes, missing blitz pickups, fumbling, and until last night he wasn't consistently running hard IMO.

I thought he played better last night, if we had not fallen behind so fast, he might have gotten close to 100 yards.

What do you expect when you ask DJ to run straight into a wall 80% of the time.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Conner
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
36,490
Reaction score
34,470
Location
Charlotte, NC
I'm hoping that moving on from McCoy will have at least some positive effect. What I fear is that Leftwich doesn't have his own solid playbook and that he'll be stuck running a lot of the McCoy playbook.

Keim has largely failed at hitting on high picks, but he seems to redeem himself on some of the lower paying free agent deals and mid to late round picks. Keim needs to put a larger emphasis on drafting premium positions from big schools who have been productive for his higher picks. Picks in rounds 1-3 should be these kind of players. He has taken far too many non-premium positions and too many gambles (position changes, small schools, etc) early in the draft.

I'm honestly concerned about handing Keim a top 5 pick to work with.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
63,616
Reaction score
58,072
Location
SoCal
From where does this myth that Wilks wasn’t keim’s choice originate?

It was well documented that Keim met him on vacation and came away very impressed. I can’t recall a single offseason article that lamented the fact that Keim lost “his” guy or even who “his” guy was supposed to be.

Do I believe Mikey had heavy input into who was hired? Of course. But he just gave Keim an extension and the only connection we have between Mikey and Keim and any of the coaches were bettchers existing relationship with both as our former DC and keims vacation love affair with Wilks. Wilks was definitely keim’s guy!!!
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
87,712
Reaction score
39,024
What do you expect when you ask DJ to run straight into a wall 80% of the time.


Oh scheme is a big problem I'm just saying in damn near every game there have been plays where it seemed like he could have gotten much more yardage than he did. Last night he was running harder, there was the play where he ran over the defender who had to leave with a neck problem, and a couple of other very tough physical runs. We weren't seeing that earlier in the year. he's not getting any help at all for sure, but he has not played as well as I expected he would. I don't think he's comfortable at all in the offense and it's really obvious he didn't get much work with Rosen we've seen a couple of collisions already, one nearly caused a safety, we've seen guys going the wrong way etc. It's a reminder that Josh starting was NOT the plan, at least not this early.
 

iLLmatiC

Drive-by Poster
Joined
Jul 4, 2004
Posts
7,575
Reaction score
5,201
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Keim will go down with the ship that is Mike McCoy and Steve Wilks. His name has been attached to every move made, he can be mad but he made this poo show. Maybe if he wasn't so concerned about saucing it up and actually constructing a roster worth a damn I wouldn't be pissed knowing I waited 7 months for this.
 

Shane

Comin for you!
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
69,152
Reaction score
39,206
Location
Las Vegas
I agree scheme is a problem but DJ has been bad this year compared to what we thought we were going to get. he's dropping passes, missing blitz pickups, fumbling, and until last night he wasn't consistently running hard IMO.

I thought he played better last night, if we had not fallen behind so fast, he might have gotten close to 100 yards.

Cant really agree with this when your scheme is terrible and not suited to his stengths.. As well as being met in the backfield 2 yards behind the LOS on probably 50% of run plays.
 

MadCardDisease

Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
20,813
Reaction score
14,788
Location
Chandler, Az
My comments:
1) The linebacker situation. This was just a bad situation to begin with. The Cardinals were already thin at LB going into the offseason. There wasn't a free agent market at LB to plug the holes. Addressing LB in the draft took a back seat when Rosen was selected. So Wilks was stuck with making do with an inferior LB crew. Clearly the whole $LB thing will not work in this scheme. Trying to play Buc or Budda at LB is a major liability in the running game. There just isn't anyone else to put in there.

2) Defensive scheme change. I think the Cardinals decided to bite the bullet and make the change this season to see who they keep for next year. Yes there would be growing pains, they just didn't expect the current LB corp to be so inept.

3) David Johnson being bad. McCoy had no idea how to use DJ. It wasn't until the fourth quarter of last nights game that McCoy threw the ball to DJ out in space. Low and behold DJ had success. Hopefully Leftwich is more creative with DJ.

4) Sam Bradford and his dumb contract. The Cardinals failed to land any of the other FA QBs despite Keim's best efforts. Maybe those QBs saw the Cards OL and said Hell NO! I think Keim deserves responsibility here but it wasn't like he didn't try to get a better QB.

K9 holds Keim responsible for:
1) The wide receiver situation. Just a total abomination. How JJ Nelson is still on this team is beyond me. Greg Little and Brice Butler were the best answer? Thankfully Kirk was drafted or this would truly be a bare cupboard. Keim definitely deserves the blame here.

2) Releasing Honey Badger. The Badger needed to go if he didn't restructure that contract. I guess you can blame Keim for giving him that contract coming off a major injury. Still I had no problem with this move.

3) The Offensive Line. With Keim being a former OL you'd think that he could assemble a decent Line. Especially considering the amount of cap space and draft picks that Keim has invested in the OL. Yet this line continues to be a hot mess.

K9 gives Keim credit for:
1) The defensive line. Corey Peters is one of the best players on the DL not named Jones. Aside from that there isn't much. I blame Keim for the Nkemdiche pick. Even in the most simple one gap scheme Nkemdiche still screws it up and can't maintain gap integrity.

2) The defensive secondary
 
OP
OP
kerouac9

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
38,420
Reaction score
29,831
Location
Gilbert, AZ
From where does this myth that Wilks wasn’t keim’s choice originate?

It was well documented that Keim met him on vacation and came away very impressed. I can’t recall a single offseason article that lamented the fact that Keim lost “his” guy or even who “his” guy was supposed to be.

Do I believe Mikey had heavy input into who was hired? Of course. But he just gave Keim an extension and the only connection we have between Mikey and Keim and any of the coaches were bettchers existing relationship with both as our former DC and keims vacation love affair with Wilks. Wilks was definitely keim’s guy!!!

Harry believes it, too. I know because I was having a conversation immediately after Wilks was announced that Keim was ready to hire Bettcher in the role, and that Arians supported it. The person who knows (sorry to do this to you) said that Keim was surprised by the decision.

My opinion is that Michael walked away from talking to someone in Wilks who is clearly a very impressive person and decided that he needed to have him in the organization as "a leader of men." He just wasn't ready for the job.
 

football karma

Michael snuggles the cap space
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Posts
15,249
Reaction score
14,315
IF its true that Mike B is really the one who made the call on Wilks, then Keim gets a pass (kinda)

my biggest beef: Wilks represents pretty dramatic philosophic switches in both offense and defense. Why would a franchise coming off a run of relative success completely change everything they do for the sake of an unproven coach (meaning -- this wasn't Andy Reid they were hiring).

If Mike B made that call, then he gets to live with the chaos that philosophic switch caused.
 

b8rtm8nn

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Jan 14, 2003
Posts
3,370
Reaction score
1,647
Location
Tucson
Harry believes it, too. I know because I was having a conversation immediately after Wilks was announced that Keim was ready to hire Bettcher in the role, and that Arians supported it. The person who knows (sorry to do this to you) said that Keim was surprised by the decision.

My opinion is that Michael walked away from talking to someone in Wilks who is clearly a very impressive person and decided that he needed to have him in the organization as "a leader of men." He just wasn't ready for the job.

If true, then firing Keim would not be wise.
 

JeffGollin

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
20,472
Reaction score
3,056
Location
Holmdel, NJ
Keim did good much of the time. But as often happens, he and Michael fooled themselves by thinking they could do no wrong and, evidently made some horrific decisions which took a perfectly decent NFL football team and totalled almost all of it.

Love SK for his good stuff. Can't forgive him for gutting the team.
 

daves

Keepin' it real!
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Posts
3,530
Reaction score
7,226
Location
Orange County, CA
IF its true that Mike B is really the one who made the call on Wilks, then Keim gets a pass (kinda)

my biggest beef: Wilks represents pretty dramatic philosophic switches in both offense and defense. Why would a franchise coming off a run of relative success completely change everything they do for the sake of an unproven coach (meaning -- this wasn't Andy Reid they were hiring).

If Mike B made that call, then he gets to live with the chaos that philosophic switch caused.
When Wilks came in, he claimed that he was going to implement a hybrid system that wouldn't be much different from the previous system; he said that all defensive systems combine elements of 3-4 and 4-3 and his would just be a shift of emphasis but not something completely new. Either that was a lie he told to get the job, or he and Holcomb found themselves incapable of sticking to that plan.

On the offensive side... a lot of people here were tired of "No risk it, no biscuit", and without Palmer, with Fitz slowing down, and without an effective John Brown, but with a healthy David Johnson, i can understand how Wilks' idea of implementing a conservative run-first offense built around DJ would've sounded appealing. I don't think anyone could've conceived of just how conservative and ineffective the offense would be as implemented by McCoy.

Not excusing any of this, just saying i can see how it seemed like a good idea at the time to Bidwill.

...dbs
 

juza76

ASFN Icon
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Posts
13,798
Reaction score
9,618
Location
milan-italy
I'm hoping that moving on from McCoy will have at least some positive effect. What I fear is that Leftwich doesn't have his own solid playbook and that he'll be stuck running a lot of the McCoy playbook.

Keim has largely failed at hitting on high picks, but he seems to redeem himself on some of the lower paying free agent deals and mid to late round picks. Keim needs to put a larger emphasis on drafting premium positions from big schools who have been productive for his higher picks. Picks in rounds 1-3 should be these kind of players. He has taken far too many non-premium positions and too many gambles (position changes, small schools, etc) early in the draft.

I'm honestly concerned about handing Keim a top 5 pick to work with.

He will call arians and he ll give him so wise advice
 

CardsFan88

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 28, 2002
Posts
7,544
Reaction score
4,526
I'm hoping this applies to Leftwich!

...dbs

Hopefully. Arians did say something to the effect he'd stop by if we hired Bettcher. Given our debacles and his student is now our OC, I hope he has Arians on speed dial and Arians picks up.
 

Latest posts

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
554,053
Posts
5,413,307
Members
6,319
Latest member
route66
Top