I don't see all the optimism
- Thread starter Cbus cardsfan
- Start date
Cbus...O yee of little faith! If the philosophy on defense changes as has been suggested by Mac himself...it will be pass rush by committee...the way it was in the Sunday night ESPN Rams game where the Cardinals were in Marc Bulger's face all night. This will be the fastest Cardinal defense we have seen in ages. And now Mac seems poised to utilize the speed.
Our offense is going to surprise everyone. Major talent abounds and now we have a quarterback who can make full use of the talent.
The hope is to win games in the twenties...24-20...something to that effect. The offense is capable of scoring in the 20's every game...and I will predict that at least twice this year the offense will score in the 40's. The defense has to get the opponents to turn the ball over two or three times a game. They can give up a couple of big plays but they have to answer back with a timely turnover. Ans the special teams has to get back to being special...the talent is there to do so.
I think the games are going to be real nailbiters...very exciting to watch. And this team will have real personality. They're going to get after it and they will capture our imaginations doing it.
Our offense is going to surprise everyone. Major talent abounds and now we have a quarterback who can make full use of the talent.
The hope is to win games in the twenties...24-20...something to that effect. The offense is capable of scoring in the 20's every game...and I will predict that at least twice this year the offense will score in the 40's. The defense has to get the opponents to turn the ball over two or three times a game. They can give up a couple of big plays but they have to answer back with a timely turnover. Ans the special teams has to get back to being special...the talent is there to do so.
I think the games are going to be real nailbiters...very exciting to watch. And this team will have real personality. They're going to get after it and they will capture our imaginations doing it.
JeffGollin
ASFN Icon
i think blake is going to be your qb for at least five years. he will turn it over occasonally but he has a gun that will win some games for us. he throws a great deep ball but he is extremely affective at hitting the screen and the tight end. ithink were gonna have fun and win a lot of games. blake is my favorite player and im glad hes a cardinal.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff is that you?
No.
I'm not big on depending too much on one guy, and like to hedge my bets. So far I like what Blake has done donning a Cardinal uniform, but (a) we haven't seen him in real action yet and (b) the possibility of injury always looms in the backround of any Cardinal team.
So, in addition to hoping that Blake continues to demonstrate he can get the job done (& then some), I'll be focusing on (a) how fast McCown is developing and whether we can depend on him to win games should Blake be unable to go and (b) how we can build more reliable depth at QB in the future.
And I still feel we're less than rock solid at CB - and that this is our other potential Achilles Heel.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff is that you?
No.
I'm not big on depending too much on one guy, and like to hedge my bets. So far I like what Blake has done donning a Cardinal uniform, but (a) we haven't seen him in real action yet and (b) the possibility of injury always looms in the backround of any Cardinal team.
So, in addition to hoping that Blake continues to demonstrate he can get the job done (& then some), I'll be focusing on (a) how fast McCown is developing and whether we can depend on him to win games should Blake be unable to go and (b) how we can build more reliable depth at QB in the future.
And I still feel we're less than rock solid at CB - and that this is our other potential Achilles Heel.
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2003
- Posts
- 90,253
- Reaction score
- 65,433
Re: Pass Rush!
This is the most assinine thing I have seen here for a long time. The Rams not looking good with Grant Wistrom, Leonard Little and Jimmy Kennedy? The Niners have Andre Carter which is more than I can say for our D-line and the Seabags signed Chike Okefor who has done more than anything any of our guys have ever done.
Being a Cards fan is one thing, but discussing football with absolutley zero sense of reality is another and something I just can't understand no matter how much I love this team.
This is the most assinine thing I have seen here for a long time. The Rams not looking good with Grant Wistrom, Leonard Little and Jimmy Kennedy? The Niners have Andre Carter which is more than I can say for our D-line and the Seabags signed Chike Okefor who has done more than anything any of our guys have ever done.
Being a Cards fan is one thing, but discussing football with absolutley zero sense of reality is another and something I just can't understand no matter how much I love this team.
HoodieBets
Formerly azcardsfan1616
Wat we did against the rams will not happen every game. The rams O-line sucked last year. The only way our offense scores above 20 is if the running game keeps moving the sticks. If Shipp and smith get stopped we will score no points at all. This team will go as far as the running game goes. All the WR's are unproven so i nor anyone else should rely heavily on them to produce the first couple of games. How many of our WR's have more than 1 year under their belt. It will take time maybe even a year or 2 before these guys understand the game and the team. IT would have been nice for their to be a vet WR to teach the young ones but that is not the case, therefore, it will take longer for them to develop.
BTW the only way for the defense to use their speed is to turn to a 3-4. The way the scheme is now you get hit by a linemen before speed can become a factor. The speed we have is at LB and we can't use that because they have to drop off in coverage. We all saw last year how blitzing was not effective. A big key will be KVB. If he has a big year he could lift this team to the middle of the NFL on defense. We will have a good Line in the years to come but to expect big things this year IMO is foolish.
Unproven is not the same as bad
Last edited:
Thank you, I'll be asking for donations later 
Re: Re: Pass Rush!
<p>Cheesy, I gotta ask ya. If Pace isn't going to do anything for the Cards this year because he's a rookie, why do you think Jimmy Kennedy is going to do anything for the Rams?
- Joined
- May 13, 2002
- Posts
- 37,909
- Reaction score
- 23,887
Re: Re: Re: Pass Rush!
That is a very fair question. I was thrilled we didn't draft Kennedy, but most would say he's better than Pace for immediate help. We'll see. I think he'll be a fat bust.
But to say our pass rush will be the second best? You have to be blocking out of your memory how bad we truly have been. Combine our sacks from the last two seasons and we still would've finished next to last in the entire NFL in sacks last year. Dallas had the next worse with 38 sacks. We had just over half that total with 22. The year before, we had only 19. We've truly witnessed the worst pass rush of modern times the last two years. Yeah, I'm hopeful, but my expectations are low when it comes to our sack totals for next season.
That is a very fair question. I was thrilled we didn't draft Kennedy, but most would say he's better than Pace for immediate help. We'll see. I think he'll be a fat bust.
But to say our pass rush will be the second best? You have to be blocking out of your memory how bad we truly have been. Combine our sacks from the last two seasons and we still would've finished next to last in the entire NFL in sacks last year. Dallas had the next worse with 38 sacks. We had just over half that total with 22. The year before, we had only 19. We've truly witnessed the worst pass rush of modern times the last two years. Yeah, I'm hopeful, but my expectations are low when it comes to our sack totals for next season.
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2003
- Posts
- 90,253
- Reaction score
- 65,433
Re: Re: Re: Pass Rush!
One - I believe you are putting words into my mouth, but I'm bored so I'll answer you anyway.
Look at the situation Kennedy's going into - mind you I never said that Kennedy was going to make the Ram line devasting - but a guy of that talent level (versus a guy who many - including everyone on this board who followed the draft, had ranked as a second or third rounder) combined with PRO BOWL DEs in Little and Wistrom as well as a proven Defensive Coordinator in Lubbie Smith, instills more confidence in me than our 1st round pick(and a dubious one at that - noted earlier) teaming with our rag tag group of guys who got the least amount of sacks in the enitre league last year which will be continued to be coached by Mean Joe Greene who has never shown the ability to make anyone better and overall under the tutelage of a defensive coordinator who's defenses have annually been in the bottom 20 percent of the league just doesn't compare to the Rams situation.
Are you honestly gonna tell me you think our D-line is comparable to the Rams?
One - I believe you are putting words into my mouth, but I'm bored so I'll answer you anyway.
Look at the situation Kennedy's going into - mind you I never said that Kennedy was going to make the Ram line devasting - but a guy of that talent level (versus a guy who many - including everyone on this board who followed the draft, had ranked as a second or third rounder) combined with PRO BOWL DEs in Little and Wistrom as well as a proven Defensive Coordinator in Lubbie Smith, instills more confidence in me than our 1st round pick(and a dubious one at that - noted earlier) teaming with our rag tag group of guys who got the least amount of sacks in the enitre league last year which will be continued to be coached by Mean Joe Greene who has never shown the ability to make anyone better and overall under the tutelage of a defensive coordinator who's defenses have annually been in the bottom 20 percent of the league just doesn't compare to the Rams situation.
Are you honestly gonna tell me you think our D-line is comparable to the Rams?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Pass Rush!
<p>From my one question, you got that I was saying our D-line is as good as the Rams? I just asked a simple question and one that I'll ask of any dark-sider. Why is it that all of the Cardinals rookies need a year or 2 of seasoning before they can contribute, but all of our opponents are going to get immediate help from their draft picks? I have seen numerous replys on this board about how much the Lions, Bengals, etc. have improved because of their draft (not necessarly from you Cheesy) and how they will beat the Cards this year because of that. It's baloney!!! No one knows how these new guys will react to any type of coaching, so the Cards have as good a chance as anyone, including the Rams, of getting immediate help from their draftees. All the analyzing of the coaching staff and player personnel are only a means of trying to back up an argument that no-one can win until we are well into the season. <p>It's that I just have a problem with always looking at the bleak side of things and never looking at the positive side. If you are always expecting things to go wrong, they usually do.<p>BTW, Chike Okefor is damaged goods. That's why the Cards didn't try to sign him.
Last edited:
Re: Re: Re: Re: Pass Rush!
<p>ajcardfan---Where did you get me saying that our pass rush will be the second best?
JeffGollin
ASFN Icon
Why is it that all of the Cardinals rookies need a year or 2 of seasoning before they can contribute, but all of our opponents are going to get immediate help from their draft picks?
Because, in most instances, the other teams' rooks are being added to already viable WR, DL and LB units.
Our newbies are coming into unsettled situations on the DL, at WR (and, to some degree) LB.
That makes them more unknown entities which (as Nidan pointed out) doesn't mean that they are "bad."
My gut tells me that Pace, Boldin, Johnson, Hayes etc. will do just fine - but I'd just as soon wait a while before betting the store on this.
Because, in most instances, the other teams' rooks are being added to already viable WR, DL and LB units.
Our newbies are coming into unsettled situations on the DL, at WR (and, to some degree) LB.
That makes them more unknown entities which (as Nidan pointed out) doesn't mean that they are "bad."
My gut tells me that Pace, Boldin, Johnson, Hayes etc. will do just fine - but I'd just as soon wait a while before betting the store on this.
Redrage
Hall of Famer
What do the naive and the cynical have in common? Both have to employ the same set of logical fallacies (chiefly the false dilemma fallacy) to reach their conclusions. The same suspension of critical thinking occurs in both instances. The cynic will tell you that he's a realist. Never mind that the cynic will often deliberately ignore any argument that fails to bolster his case. I'm not certain as to whether the practice is intentional or reflexive, just that I see it happening. Always assuming the inevitability of the worst case scenerio is just as fool hardy as constantly predicting sunny skies. Who is this dude, Murphy, anyway? Why should I respect his laws?
Certainly experience tells us that the Cards will probably suck this year. However, I for one believe that the only thing we can learn from history is that history is a series of surprises and by studying history we simply learn how to continue to be surprised (loosely quoting Vonnegutt.) The NFL seems to be a perfect test environment for chaos theory. So many independant variables are at play that one has a hard time predicting the outcome of a season. So many teams are an injury or suspension away from being ineffectual. A couple of breaks go the Cardinals way (pun intended) and the season could be a good one. Of course they could just as easily go 5-11 again.
My own personal theory is that they will win between 5 and 7 games. Of course, anything can happen and anything typicaly does happen. I try not be overly positive or pessimistic, but take a "wait and see" attitude. Believe it or not, you can be just as passionate a fan without jetisonning your cognitive faculties.
Oh.
One last time for good measure, "YOU STILL SUCK JAKE!!!!!!!!"
Certainly experience tells us that the Cards will probably suck this year. However, I for one believe that the only thing we can learn from history is that history is a series of surprises and by studying history we simply learn how to continue to be surprised (loosely quoting Vonnegutt.) The NFL seems to be a perfect test environment for chaos theory. So many independant variables are at play that one has a hard time predicting the outcome of a season. So many teams are an injury or suspension away from being ineffectual. A couple of breaks go the Cardinals way (pun intended) and the season could be a good one. Of course they could just as easily go 5-11 again.
My own personal theory is that they will win between 5 and 7 games. Of course, anything can happen and anything typicaly does happen. I try not be overly positive or pessimistic, but take a "wait and see" attitude. Believe it or not, you can be just as passionate a fan without jetisonning your cognitive faculties.
Oh.
One last time for good measure, "YOU STILL SUCK JAKE!!!!!!!!"
- Joined
- May 13, 2002
- Posts
- 37,909
- Reaction score
- 23,887
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Pass Rush!
You didn't, RugbyMuffin did. But it sure looks like I thought you said it from my post. Sorry!
You didn't, RugbyMuffin did. But it sure looks like I thought you said it from my post. Sorry!
HoodieBets
Formerly azcardsfan1616
When did i say they were bad, i just said it is unwise to put all your hopes and dreams into these WR's when the are unproven, young and have no experience. My exact words were that we should not expect them to produce the first couple of games. If you are telling me that they are going to be reliable go to guys the first couple games this year you are crazy. WE dont even know the starters yet people are rushing to say that all of them will be good NFL WR's and none will flop. BAMB!
I dont believe anyone said pace was not as good as kennedy but obviously kennedy goes into the better situation. He actually goes into a line that is set and everyone knows where they stand. They dont have a pass rush by commitee like the cardinals. Pace will not be sure when he will be in the game or for how long. Everyone in the west has a pretty much set line excpet for the cards. I kno i am repeating most of what cheese said bc i agree with him. A lot of you guys put too much stock into rookies. Wait a year or two then you maybe can rely consistantly on them but for now you can only hope for the best.
My comment was not directed at any specific post.
It's just a lot of people have been implying that becase we have some unproven players that we don't have a good *insert position here*, when in fact we don't know if the player in question will be good, bad or indifferent.
I for one see several players who have the possibility" to have a break out year. Of course it thay could also have a broken year instead.
It's just that unproven is no synonomous with bad as some are trying to imply.
It's just a lot of people have been implying that becase we have some unproven players that we don't have a good *insert position here*, when in fact we don't know if the player in question will be good, bad or indifferent.
I for one see several players who have the possibility" to have a break out year. Of course it thay could also have a broken year instead.
It's just that unproven is no synonomous with bad as some are trying to imply.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Murray
Good post Redrage...
Krang and Redrage, the other brother tandem!
<p>Jeff, that can work for you or against you. When rookies get to step in and take someone elses job without earning that job, it creates hard feelings. Or maybe they're replacing a veteran who was let go because of the salary cap. Won't the remaining part of that team be resentful that their buddy was let go and now you have an overpaid, unproven youngster trying to replace him. Human nature sometimes overshadows the team concept and rivalries form with-in a team rather than against an opponent. Thusly, having a group of veterans teaching a rookie doesn't always work to the teams' advantage. That's why teams coaching positions are so important. <p>On the other hand, all jobs on the Cards team (with a few exceptions) are available and up for grabs. An undrafted FA can come in and grab a starting lineup position, so while you have internal rivalry, you aren't also fighting against a veteran losing his spot to you.<p>I guess where I'm trying to go with this is that there are arguments for both sides and both are valid arguments. You can guess at the future all you want, but until it becomes history, everyone is right.
JeffGollin
ASFN Icon
guess where I'm trying to go with this is that there are arguments for both sides and both are valid
My point is that I come down on neither side - particularly when the advocates state things so positively as to make you think they "really know." (T'were it that simple, everyone would be a genius, we'd all be GM's of football teams and we'd all take our teams to the Super Bowl).
Whether or not a rookie makes the team as a result of coming into an established or wide-open situation on a roster wasn't the issue.
The issue raised was why rookies on the Cards are considered "unknowns" for a couple of years whereas rookies on other teams are sometimes expected to step right in and start.
My point was that, on established teams, it's a lot easier to absorb one or even two guys into a set-roster because you know what you're getting. But when things are as fluxy as they've been on the Cardinals for the past several years, it's hard to know how the new guy will fit in (because the team often can't answer the question: "fit into what?")
My point is that I come down on neither side - particularly when the advocates state things so positively as to make you think they "really know." (T'were it that simple, everyone would be a genius, we'd all be GM's of football teams and we'd all take our teams to the Super Bowl).
Whether or not a rookie makes the team as a result of coming into an established or wide-open situation on a roster wasn't the issue.
The issue raised was why rookies on the Cards are considered "unknowns" for a couple of years whereas rookies on other teams are sometimes expected to step right in and start.
My point was that, on established teams, it's a lot easier to absorb one or even two guys into a set-roster because you know what you're getting. But when things are as fluxy as they've been on the Cardinals for the past several years, it's hard to know how the new guy will fit in (because the team often can't answer the question: "fit into what?")
OP
OP
Cbus cardsfan
Back to Back ASFN FFL Champion
- Joined
- May 14, 2002
- Posts
- 21,311
- Reaction score
- 7,108
Jeff,what post did you read?Where are the "certainties"you are talking about.I said Pace and Bryant COULD be potentially good or potential busts.I said i like Leftwich better than Manning.How is that anointing him a savior for the Cards? I said Blake is a mediocre,at best,QB in the league.Show me how that is a falsity. I'll agree with one statement you made.It's that we'eve wound up being disappointed when we pin our hopes on getting one player.The reason for that is,we never get the player we want.We always get a 2nd or 3rd choice.Starks/Jones are the closest players i can think of that we have gotten that fill a need. I also did say that i though in 2-3 years that the Cards would be challenging for the NFC.
Similar threads
Staff online
-
Dback JonKiller Snail -
DevilmaycareNerd Supreme -
ShaneComin for you! -
ajcardfanI see you.