i miss marion.

[pokerface]

As for "great rebounder for his size", I hate those types of arguments. Should we give Marion a medal or a cookie because he was a good rebounder "for his size"? I just want a good rebounder, size be damned.

Well uhh...I watched Marion his whole career and I always thought he was a very good rebounder...I'm glad you set me straight on that one....didn't realize it was a weakness of his. I guess Garnett is the only good rebounder in the league...everyone else stinks.


Man you must really hate Amares guts for his pukey rebounding huh?

 

[Covert Rain]

As for "great rebounder for his size", I hate those types of arguments. Should we give Marion a medal or a cookie because he was a good rebounder "for his size"? I just want a good rebounder, size be damned.

He was. Marion's worst season in a Suns uniform (since his rookie season) was 9.3 RPG. He averaged almost 9.9 RPG in a Suns uniform and that is his current career average. You don't need to say "great" as a SF at all IMO to call Marion a great rebounder.

To put that into perspective, let's look at this seasons rebounding leaders (qualified - 70 games or 800 rebounds):

Howard - 14.0
Lee - 12.1
Murphy - 11.9
Biedrens - 11.5
Duncan - 10.7
Okafer - 10.3
Ming - 9.6
Bosch - 9.5
Gasol - 9.4

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/stati...rder=true&league=nba&avg=pg&qual=true&pos=all

That would put Marion in 7th this year if he was still getting his average this year. Marion is #1 at the SF position this year despite being off his average. Marion was toward the top of the league every single year in rebounding. If your top 10 or top 15 in anything in this league that is great.

You might not like the SF argument but you can't discount it either considering the company he was in (Centers & Power Forwards). That just shows you what a sick athlete Marion is (or was in a Suns uniform). The Rebounding leader list (like above) year in and year out is always populated with Centers and True Power Forwards. I don't see how you cannot mention that as part of the Marion rebounding discussion.

Here is Marion's last few full years:

Qualified Leaders

2006-2007 (Marion #8)
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/stati...league=nba&sort=totreb&order=true&season=2007

2005-2006 (Marion #3)
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/stati...league=nba&sort=totreb&order=true&season=2006

2004-2005 (Marion #3)
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/stati...league=nba&sort=totreb&order=true&season=2005


Marion was a great rebounder by any estimation. Adding the SF argument not only boosts what an accomplishment he has managed over the years but would be short sited to ignore that part of the discussion.

I only had 1 problem with Marion and that was he was overpaid IMO. He was never a max contract player. I think what he has done since leaving the Suns proved that. I always felt that some of the crap people used to spew at Marion was ridiculous. Now that seeing how the team still has some of the same problems now that he is gone even makes some of the hate crap even more hilarious now.

If Marion was not a max contract player and could keep his mouth shut, I would still love to have him on this team.

 

[pokerface]

Back to your old anklebiting I see...

Anklebiting?

A fan comes in and said he misses Marion and right away comes a chorus of haters looking to diss anything they can about the guy. I try to interject what I think is some balance and say Marion had a lot more positives than negatives only to receive some rediculous comments and more hate. Why arn't some fans allowed to miss Marion without hearing a bunch of BS about it??


Anklebiting? Someone needs to check themsleves me thinks.

 

[pokerface]

Any team could easily shut down Marion to 5ppg in the playoffs by simply putting ANY defender on his toes.

Don't miss him, Barnes is currently producing better numbers than Marion did since the Suns are running hard.

Its funny how any team could have stopped Marion and chose not to all these years. Amazing...

Barnes? When is his first allstar game?

 

[green machine]

He was. Marion's worst season in a Suns uniform (since his rookie season) was 9.3 RPG. He averaged almost 9.9 RPG in a Suns uniform and that is his current career average. You don't need to say "great" as a SF at all IMO to call Marion a great rebounder.

To put that into perspective, let's look at this seasons rebounding leaders (qualified - 70 games or 800 rebounds):

Howard - 14.0
Lee - 12.1
Murphy - 11.9
Biedrens - 11.5
Duncan - 10.7
Okafer - 10.3
Ming - 9.6
Bosch - 9.5
Gasol - 9.4

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/stati...rder=true&league=nba&avg=pg&qual=true&pos=all

That would put Marion in 7th this year if he was still getting his average this year. Marion is #1 at the SF position this year despite being off his average. Marion was toward the top of the league every single year in rebounding. If your top 10 or top 15 in anything in this league that is great.

You might not like the SF argument but you can't discount it either considering the company he was in (Centers & Power Forwards). That just shows you what a sick athlete Marion is (or was in a Suns uniform). The Rebounding leader list (like above) year in and year out is always populated with Centers and True Power Forwards. I don't see how you cannot mention that as part of the Marion rebounding discussion.

Here is Marion's last few full years:

Qualified Leaders

2006-2007 (Marion #8)
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/stati...league=nba&sort=totreb&order=true&season=2007

2005-2006 (Marion #3)
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/stati...league=nba&sort=totreb&order=true&season=2006

2004-2005 (Marion #3)
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/stati...league=nba&sort=totreb&order=true&season=2005


Marion was a great rebounder by any estimation. Adding the SF argument not only boosts what an accomplishment he has managed over the years but would be short sited to ignore that part of the discussion.

I only had 1 problem with Marion and that was he was overpaid IMO. He was never a max contract player. I think what he has done since leaving the Suns proved that. I always felt that some of the crap people used to spew at Marion was ridiculous. Now that seeing how the team still has some of the same problems now that he is gone even makes some of the hate crap even more hilarious now.

If Marion was not a max contract player and could keep his mouth shut, I would still love to have him on this team.

I never said Marion couldn't rebound. I said he was an opportunistic rebounder and that his boards weren't really impactful.

Notice the rebounding improved last year after dealing Marion. If his boards had such a profound impact, why did that happen?

Also, what I meant was I don't give anyone any extra credit for being "better than they should be" with any size limitations or whatever. Makes no difference to me. I just want production.

 

[arwillan]

I miss his play, not his Marion-ness off the court.

 

[AceP]

Marion is the GREATEST SF rebounder in the league. NOT ONE OF THEM. That is unarguable. And in my opinion, he is still one of the best perimeter defender.

It is also unarguable that Barnes is playing very well for this team right now. We can't directly compare them, different teams, different system, they are not same type of player either.

I don't think we will lose both Hill and Barnes next season, FO will do whatever to keep at least one of them. And Dudley is a very solid young guy. So it is pretty much nonsense to miss Marion.

Give it a second thought, Marion might be a good fit to play PF alongside Shaq. His rebounding rate is good enough, he can defend legit PFs well, maybe not Duncan, but most of others, he can handle. We won't require him to shoot 3 or create shots at 4. But, that's too far away. The chance to keep Shaq is slim.

 

[pokerface]

I dont understand why any hate on Marion. Of course he seeked the most money he could get....most players would. Was Marion the perfect player?..no. Was he a very good all around player?...absolutely. Would the Suns want him back for the right price?...of course. So what is this discussion all about?

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

I dont understand why any hate on Marion. Of course he seeked the most money he could get....most players would. Was Marion the perfect player?..no. Was he a very good all around player?...absolutely. Would the Suns want him back for the right price?...of course. So what is this discussion all about?

(sought)

100% false. Uh, he didnt seek the most money he could get, he sought an unreasonable amount of money from the team that valued him the most and an insane amount of money when factoring in market value. In fact, he sought so much money the most reasonable option for the franchise was to kick him out! And his performance over the last two seasons is 100% indicative of how wrong he was! He wasn't even close to seeking max money, he was seeking laughable at best and insulting at worst money!

Why do you take such a radical approach to the general consensus? No one takes you seriously. I can't fathom how you can enjoy being wrong just to get a rise out of people. You make no point by going to the opposite extreme of the discussion. How is that not obvious? Oh it is, you're just up to your old tricks...

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

 

[pokerface]

(sought)



Why do you take such a radical approach to the general consensus? No one takes you seriously. I can't fathom how you can enjoy being wrong just to get a rise out of people. You make no point by going to the opposite extreme of the discussion. How is that not obvious? Oh it is, you're just up to your old tricks...

What is extreme or contrary about my position on Marion? I'm actually agreeing with the OP because there are things I miss about Marion also. It started as a pro-Marion thread if you hadn't noticed...anyone coming in downing Marion are the ones stirring things up. I'm extreme because I like and appreciate Marions game??

 

[dodie53]

i miss Marion too.

but not his attitude.

 

[AceP]

Seriously, I would really love to see how Marion performs as starting PF in Seven Seconds Or Shaq. Nash + filler for Calderon + Marion (sign & trade, a reasonable contract size) sounds fesiable.

But, will Marion consider the idea to return to Phoenix?

 

[lou_skywalker]

Seriously, I would really love to see how Marion performs as starting PF in Seven Seconds Or Shaq. Nash + filler for Calderon + Marion (sign & trade, a reasonable contract size) sounds fesiable.

But, will Marion consider the idea to return to Phoenix?

I think he would, if the raptors keep sucking, but kerr would definitely reject a comeback.

 

[Shzm13]

You must be registered for see images

 

[PoolBoy]

(sought)(sentence fragment:consider revising)

100% false. Uh, he didn(')t seek the most money he could get, he sought an unreasonable amount of money from the team that valued him the most (run on sentence) and an insane amount of money when factoring in market value. In fact, he sought so much money the most reasonable option for the franchise was to kick him out! And his performance over the last two seasons is 100% indicative of how wrong he was! He wasn't even close to seeking max money, he was seeking laughable at best and insulting at worst money! (Sentence structure needs work)

Why do you take such a radical approach to the general consensus? No one takes you seriously. I can't fathom how you can enjoy being wrong just to get a rise out of people. You make no point by going to the opposite extreme of the discussion. How is that not obvious? Oh it is, you're just up to your old tricks...

See how ridiculous it is to belittle a person's post by talking about their word choice?

 

[Bufalay]

(sought)

100% false. Uh, he didnt seek the most money he could get, he sought an unreasonable amount of money from the team that valued him the most and an insane amount of money when factoring in market value. In fact, he sought so much money the most reasonable option for the franchise was to kick him out! And his performance over the last two seasons is 100% indicative of how wrong he was! He wasn't even close to seeking max money, he was seeking laughable at best and insulting at worst money!

Why do you take such a radical approach to the general consensus? No one takes you seriously. I can't fathom how you can enjoy being wrong just to get a rise out of people. You make no point by going to the opposite extreme of the discussion. How is that not obvious? Oh it is, you're just up to your old tricks...

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Cool it with the obnoxious photos.

 

[Covert Rain]

I never said Marion couldn't rebound. I said he was an opportunistic rebounder and that his boards weren't really impactful.

That's ridiculous. Anybody who gets 9 rebounds per game impacts the game. Also, I don't buy the opportunistic rebounds. A player doesn't have the time to pick and choose rebounding while playing a fast paced game. These guys react on instincts.

Notice the rebounding improved last year after dealing Marion. If his boards had such a profound impact, why did that happen?

Because you added one of the most dominate paint players in the NBA. Adding Shaq had more to do with anything else. If Marion had been traded for crap, this team would be dead last in rebounding in the NBA.

Also, what I meant was I don't give anyone any extra credit for being "better than they should be" with any size limitations or whatever. Makes no difference to me. I just want production.

Well you should. He is going to do gown as one of the best rebounding SF in NBA history.

 

[PHX04]

anyone know if Marion is still asking for Max contract?

 

[green machine]

That's ridiculous. Anybody who gets 9 rebounds per game impacts the game. Also, I don't buy the opportunistic rebounds. A player doesn't have the time to pick and choose rebounding while playing a fast paced game. These guys react on instincts.

Shawn got those rebounds because he was quick to the ball and a quick leaper. Not because he was boxing out and in position to get a rebound. And, for being such a great rebounder, the team was always getting murdered on the glass. Which leads me to...

Because you added one of the most dominate paint players in the NBA. Adding Shaq had more to do with anything else. If Marion had been traded for crap, this team would be dead last in rebounding in the NBA.

Right, and Shaq boxes out, either getting the rebound himself or walling off at least one defender from getting it themselves. Marion didn't do that. If Marion didn't get it, his guy was free to roam and maybe get it himself.

Basically you are proving my point here. Shaq, while one of the more dominant paint players, has not been a great rebounder the last few years. Hell, he only averaged what, 8 a game last year? His 8-9 boards mean more for the team than Shawn's totals of the same, because with Shaq the Suns don't get abused on the boards anymore. Why is that? Why are one guys 8 rebounds better than another's? Because Shaq boxes out.

Well you should. He is going to do gown as one of the best rebounding SF in NBA history.

Marion was playing the PF in D'Antoni's system, so I don't know if those numbers should count to a SF's total. But, to each his own I guess. I'll take the same rebounds from a 7 foot SF and not think twice. Because, when all is said and done (and the D'Antoni Suns started this trend), it won't be about SF's or PF's or anything of the like. It will be about the five players on the court, regardless of "position".

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

See how ridiculous it is to belittle a person's post by talking about their word choice?

He made up a freaking word and I corrected him without even incorporating it into my actual response. In fact, my correction was parenthetical and not even related to my retort! Did I rub it in? Did I call him out on it? Did I flip out? I bolded a pseudo-word and gave the correct word directly below it. Please show me how I belittled his response.

What you did was petty, pompous and excessive. Not to mention udderly ridiculous. Don't confuse the two.

Cool it with the obnoxious photos.

Bufalay is now the obnoxious police? I'm dumbfounded.


Cool it? Like im on a rabid streak of photo spamming? 3 pictures in a row and the only 3 this month requires a mandate of cooling it from the most sarcastic man on the board? The guy who seeks andrew out to express his frustration with every one of his comments? WTF dude?



I've not had beef with either one of you, don't come hounding me because I won't tolerate pokerface's shock value. He has a track record of trolling and baiting people into tangential arguments, and is very successful at it. Have you both missed this all these years?

 

[Bufalay]

Bufalay is now the obnoxious police? I'm dumbfounded.


Cool it? Like im on a rabid streak of photo spamming? 3 pictures in a row and the only 3 this month requires a mandate of cooling it from the most sarcastic man on the board? The guy who seeks andrew out to express his frustration with every one of his comments? WTF dude?



I've not had beef with either one of you, don't come hounding me because I won't tolerate pokerface's shock value. He has a track record of trolling and baiting people into tangential arguments, and is very successful at it. Have you both missed this all these years?

I didn't really have a problem with what you said, I just couldn't come up with a nice way of saying that I don't think those pictures are very funny. It seems like you post of lot of them.

 

[pokerface]

I've not had beef with either one of you, don't come hounding me because I won't tolerate pokerface's shock value. He has a track record of trolling and baiting people into tangential arguments, and is very successful at it. Have you both missed this all these years?

Yeah I really trolled by defending Marion...a multiple allstar who many fans would STILL want on thier team. For that you get into personal attacks on me and throw in some phony & sickening "better than thou" attitude. You say another poster is acting like a cop when thats all you've done on this thread yourself. Why dont you stick with the issue and talk about players and basketball instead of going down some low road. The only one anklebiting is YOU. You're the last poster that should be lecturing about board behavior.


And yes, your pictures are pointless, obnoxious, and junk up the thread. Instead of fighting people about it why dont you show an ounce of common sense and knock it off. We dont care about how many times you havnt done it but the fact that you're doing it now. What was the point of those pics anyway...more attacking?

 

[Mainstreet]

Even if the Suns move in a new direction, I don't understand why some fans have to disparage what was good. Marion had a great career here in Phoenix. DA brought Phoenix four years of winning and playoff basketball. Now it seems many fans are ready to toss two time MVP Steve Nash in the dumpster as well. I can understand sometimes things need to change, but I believe those who have given much to the Suns should be respected.

 

[Covert Rain]

Shawn got those rebounds because he was quick to the ball and a quick leaper. Not because he was boxing out and in position to get a rebound. And, for being such a great rebounder, the team was always getting murdered on the glass. Which leads me to...

The ability to rebound makes you a great rebounder...not the technique IMO. The other team still doesn't get the rebound regardless of how you managed to do it. Also, your suggesting that this team is more dominate in the rebounding department since Marion left. This team is almost identical to last years in the rebounding department.

2007-2008 (Rebounding)
41.5 Per game (#18)
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/08/1/reb/1-1

2008-2009
41.2 Per Game (#17)
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/09/1/reb/1-1

The team was in the bottom half last year and the bottom half this year. Now if Amare had stepped up his game along side Shaq, we would probably be a much better rebounding team because having 2 big front court guys that hit the boards would be huge. Amare just has been to inconsistent like usual.

 

[green machine]

The ability to rebound makes you a great rebounder...not the technique IMO. The other team still doesn't get the rebound regardless of how you managed to do it. Also, your suggesting that this team is more dominate in the rebounding department since Marion left. This team is almost identical to last years in the rebounding department.

2007-2008 (Rebounding)
41.5 Per game (#18)
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/08/1/reb/1-1

2008-2009
41.2 Per Game (#17)
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/09/1/reb/1-1

The team was in the bottom half last year and the bottom half this year. Now if Amare had stepped up his game along side Shaq, we would probably be a much better rebounding team because having 2 big front court guys that hit the boards would be huge. Amare just has been to inconsistent like usual.

The pure numbers may support your argument, but the fact that the Suns outrebound their opponents this year totally blows it out of the water.