I Miss this Guy

[Mainstreet]

As there is no definitive answer regarding the Diaw versus Joe Johnson comparison, I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and a good argument can be made for each player.

IMO, however, I would not trade Diaw for Joe Johnson straight up. Anyway, this is how I feel. Generally, quality bigs are more valuable than quality smalls. JJ is best playing the 2-3 position, but Diaw is best playing the 4-5 position. Also Diaw is an awesome passer and I believe has more upside.

There does not need to be a winner in this debate as Phoenix got what they wanted in the Atlanta trade and Atlanta got exactly what they wanted.

I do give the edge in the trade to Phoenix because they still own two additional first round picks obtained in this trade.

 

[F-Dog]

Suns obviously won the trade--they got two years of Diaw dirt cheap, while the Hawks are paying through the nose for Joe J. The two picks are just frosting.

That doesn't mean that Joe wouldn't look mighty nice in a Suns uni right now.

 

[Mainstreet]

Suns obviously won the trade--they got two years of Diaw dirt cheap, while the Hawks are paying through the nose for Joe J. The two picks are just frosting.

That doesn't mean that Joe wouldn't look mighty nice in a Suns uni right now.

Agreed. Although I would gag over the upfront money he received. Also the Suns might not have Diaw.

 

[JS22]

Looking at the numbers, Boris averaged 24ppg, 9rpg, 6apg in the conference finals. That is just insane! When it's all said and done, I think Boris will finish as the better player.

 

[JS22]

Without getting into the decision-making process last year, Joe Johnson would be a perfect addition to the current Suns team.

Put him on the roster in place of James Jones, and the Suns barely even need a ninth man. Their eight-man rotation would be best in the league by far.

You'd have to get rid of Diaw, not James Jones.

 

[NastyOne]

Why do you guys keep talking about Diaw playing center?

Just cause he played it doesnt mean hes good at it.

Yeah hes good on the offensive side of the ball playing F/C(Who wouldnt be with slow bigmen guarding them?), but he couldnt guard the Brand's,Dirk's or any other bigman with meat on him.(Kaman,Brown & Diop was flinging him around killing us getting offensive boards)

People look at his game versus the Rockets when he D'd up Ming and thinks he can defend centers, even though we had to double Ming everytime he touched the ball.

Hes 220lbs at most, thats not strong enough to defend the post.

If hes forced to play center, we'll be in the same situation that had Amare asking for someone else to come in and deal with teams centers.

There is a reason why we couldnt stop teams from killing us on the boards in the playoffs when Diaw was defending the post.

Our best lineup was when Tim Thomas came in at center and Diaw moved to SF.

And our best lineup this upcoming season will be Thomas or another bigman at center,Amare at PF and Marion at SF.This way Diaw can come off the bench and sub for any position and still get his 30+mpg.

Then when we trade Marion in 07/08, Diaw can play his natural position which is SF.

 

[F-Dog]

You'd have to get rid of Diaw, not James Jones.

You didn't read the first part of my post.

 

[F-Dog]

Our best lineup was when Tim Thomas came in at center and Diaw moved to SF.

That definitely wasn't the team's best lineup on defense, which is what we're concerned with. TT was an enormous liability away from the ball.

I don't have any problem with Amare and Diaw as the team's PF and C long-term. I do have a problem with Diaw at SF, which is that he doesn't shoot well enough at that spot to keep the team's spacing where it needs to be.

 

[NastyOne]

That definitely wasn't the team's best lineup on defense, which is what we're concerned with. TT was an enormous liability away from the ball.

Yes it was, cause TT atleast could keep bigmen from backing him down.

Hell, he was our best defender on Dirk and Brand.(Even though thats not saying much)

I don't have any problem with Amare and Diaw as the team's PF and C long-term. I do have a problem with Diaw at SF, which is that he doesn't shoot well enough at that spot to keep the team's spacing where it needs to be.

Diaw's shot is good enough to play SF, and it keeps getting better.

Plus hes longer than most SF's so he can post them up, but still quick enough to play facing the basket and go around them.

If Amare has no problem playing center and defending centers, then yes Diaw would also do good at PowerForward, but he would need to hit the weight room to stop them from murdering him in the post.

 

[F-Dog]

Yes it was, cause TT atleast could keep bigmen from backing him down.

TT just sat there and waited for help--aside from purpose fouls, he didn't make any effort to challenge anybody's shot.

Of course, when TT was defending the ball, the help that arrived was timely and effective, which was definitely not the case when Diaw was guarding the ball and TT was the help defender. Maybe that's the difference you noticed.

Diaw's shot is good enough to play SF, and it keeps getting better.

Diaw's shot wasn't even good enough to play center against Dallas. His post defense is miles ahead of his shooting at this point.

 

[NastyOne]

TT just sat there and waited for help--aside from purpose fouls, he didn't make any effort to challenge anybody's shot.

Of course, when TT was defending the ball, the help that arrived was timely and effective, which was definitely not the case when Diaw was guarding the ball and TT was the help defender. Maybe that's the difference you noticed.

Most of the time we doubled Dirk and Brand, it was Nash or another guard who came to help.

But when Diaw did leave Diop every once in awhile to help, Diop got an easy dunk or put himself in perfect position to get the offensive rebound.Same with Kaman in the LAC series.

Diaw's shot wasn't even good enough to play center against Dallas. His post defense is miles ahead of his shooting at this point.

Thats the reason Dampier couldnt even get in the game?

Diaw exploded on Dallas on offense, cause he either was hitting the jumper or blowing by Dampier and Dirk, Diop was the only one that could slow him down a bit.

But on the other side of the court he was nonexistent.

 

[CaptainInsano]

The simple fact was 2004-2005 was a magical year..

..Because of Nash and Amare with some Marion in the mix.

Nobody even noticed JJ until he went down against dallas, and even then barely that many people remembered or even thought it would make a difference. Even the sportswriters credited JJ with such credentials as "he plays almost 40 minutes a game" or "suns lost someone who played many minutes" etc. To them he was basically a minute vacuole. Good riddance to him and his ridiculous, utterly ridiculous, 70 million contract.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Good riddance to him and his ridiculous, utterly ridiculous, 70 million contract.

It isn't ridiculous. It was ridiculous for the Suns to pay that, but he is definitely earning that contract

 

[Wally]

It isn't ridiculous. It was ridiculous for the Suns to pay that, but he is definitely earning that contract

Everything is relative.....Some guys actually get paid to just watch the games


I forget the exact details but I don't fault the Suns management for JJ wanting to leave for the BIG $$ and to be THE MAN instead of the 4th option. I don't remember the amount of $ difference in the initial contract negations but it wasn't much. JJ was inconsistent playing well on the road and poor at home JJ and Sarver told him "Play well this next year & you'll get a lot more". JJ had a hugh confidence problem that the Suns worked with him on when many others doubted if he would ever solve that problem. We'll, JJ did play well the next year and HE made the decision the HE wanted to be THE MAN. I rank JJ's decision making right along McDice's. Both snubbed an organization that helped them become one who others wanted.

I think that the $ amount players are getting is ridiculous and it won't be long before the average fan will need to take a 2nd mortgage on their home to get season tickets. JJ's just part of that process.

I don't miss him.

 

[Covert Rain]

People are making some great points. I mean if your talking pure defense then I prefer Joe. If your talking offense, then it depends. I think you can replace a jump shooter like Joe much easier then a good post up player like Diaw. Joe every once in a while would drive but again, I think you can get a guy who will drive or jump shoot. However, good post up players don't come along that often.

Diaw proved, especially in the playoffs that he is a really good post up player no matter who is covering him. So for me, the question is, would I rather have the old lineup with Joe or a new lineup with KT, Diaw and Bell being new pieces? It's a no brainer. I would much rather have the new lineup.

Because not only did we replace Joe's defense at the SG spot, I think Bell is a better defender. Not to mention that allowed us to add Kurt (again more defense and rebounding). Then we found Diaw(good post up player).

No doubt this team is better off as a result of losing Joe. We have more defense and rebounding. Not to mention we don't miss his outside shooting with they way Bell shoots.

 

[sunsfn]

People are making some great points. I mean if your talking pure defense then I prefer Joe. If your talking offense, then it depends. I think you can replace a jump shooter like Joe much easier then a good post up player like Diaw. Joe every once in a while would drive but again, I think you can get a guy who will drive or jump shoot. However, good post up players don't come along that often.

Diaw proved, especially in the playoffs that he is a really good post up player no matter who is covering him. So for me, the question is, would I rather have the old lineup with Joe or a new lineup with KT, Diaw and Bell being new pieces? It's a no brainer. I would much rather have the new lineup.

Because not only did we replace Joe's defense at the SG spot, I think Bell is a better defender. Not to mention that allowed us to add Kurt (again more defense and rebounding). Then we found Diaw(good post up player).

No doubt this team is better off as a result of losing Joe. We have more defense and rebounding. Not to mention we don't miss his outside shooting with they way Bell shoots.

The Suns signed Bell with the plan to keep Joe Johnson.
They traded Q for Thomas with the plans to keep Joe Johnson.

 

[Covert Rain]

The Suns signed Bell with the plan to keep Joe Johnson.
They traded Q for Thomas with the plans to keep Joe Johnson.

Don't know the exacts of the salary structure but know we are up against the cap. However, I would imagine if we had given Joe the contract that Atlanta did, something would have given and some pieces would be different. Not to mention we would not have gotten Diaw.

I say we are better off without him.

 

[sunsfn]

Don't know the exacts of the salary structure but know we are up against the cap. However, I would imagine if we had given Joe the contract that Atlanta did, something would have given and some pieces would be different. Not to mention we would not have gotten Diaw.

I say we are better off without him.

The salary structure would been in trouble if we gave Joe Johnson 70 mil.
Giving him 50 mil would have caused the suns to make some changes.

I mentioned the signing of Bell and trade for Thomas because they were done with the idea of improving the team and keeping JJ, not with the idea of trading him.

 

[NastyOne]

Wishful thinking, but the best thing that could've happend was us resigning JJ to $50 the year before, still sign Bell and trade for Kurt Thomas in the offseason, then trade something small like a 2nd rounder for Diaw.

Remember Diaw had no value and the Hawks probably would've considered dumping him.He was just a throw in when we traded Johnson.

Man that would have been a sweet team

Wonder if Sarver would've dished out the money to keep those guys together... Amare,Nash,Johnson,Marion,Diaw,Bell and Barbosa.(Kurt Thomas for a year)

Thats not just a contender, thats a dynasty.

 

[Silverbullet]

If the suns were to write down there needs for a back court addition it would have jj writen all over it. He is axactly what we need Back up nash, play D on the bigger guards, and knock down shots.

I do like what Diaw brings to the front court and 24/9/6 in the wcf is just sick. I dont want to get into this whos better debate you all have very solid points . I think Phx did well in the Atl deal and would not change a thing. Boris will not command 70m and we still have 2 picks next year not bad at all.

 

[sunsfn]

If the suns were to write down there needs for a back court addition it would have jj writen all over it. He is axactly what we need Back up nash, play D on the bigger guards, and knock down shots.

I do like what Diaw brings to the front court and 24/9/6 in the wcf is just sick. I dont want to get into this whos better debate you all have very solid points . I think Phx did well in the Atl deal and would not change a thing. Boris will not command 70m and we still have 2 picks next year not bad at all.

I think that is why they wanted Salmons, they see a lot of JJ in him. Size and defense and he will get better offensively as he plays more.

 

[SunsRising]

You must be registered for see images

That picture is funny/stunning in a way. He's still got quite a height to travel before he reaches the basket but he already has the ball in a downward facing grip - it doesn't even look like he's holding the ball - it seems like he has the ball ready to drop into the hoop. I guess that just shows the speed at which these guys fly to the hoop....he's milliseconds from dunking it.
Unbelievable!

He was pulling down a rebound.

 

[F-Dog]

But when Diaw did leave Diop every once in awhile to help, Diop got an easy dunk or put himself in perfect position to get the offensive rebound.Same with Kaman in the LAC series.

You have to move a little closer to your point here. I can't tell what you're trying to argue.

Thats the reason Dampier couldnt even get in the game?

Dampier couldn't keep Diaw away from the basket or guard the P&R. Diop could, which meant Diaw was forced to shoot, and he couldn't do it well enough to keep the Suns competitive.

 

[sunsfn]

You must be registered for see images

He was pulling down a rebound.

No he is not.
There are no other players than the one running toward the hoop. It is a long pass to him for a dunk and he is just starting his jump from running down the court.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

You must be registered for see images

He was pulling down a rebound.

Rebound?

He is definitely dunking from a fast break opportunity.