I say Pass on Thomas!

[vinnymac]

Here is a fact, this discussion is about Russ Grimm's effect on the OL, the FACT is in his history as an OL coach the pass blocking has been sub-par. Another fact, the Cardinals current collection of OL are not at the level of what he is used to coaching and yet another fact saying we want to be a run oriented team and actually being one are 2 completely different things. Just because a coach comes here doesn't change the fact that historically the Cardinals don't have success running the ball. How about another fact...3 of our 4 best offensive players are in the passing offense (Fitz, Leinart and Boldin).

W/L aren't a direct reflection of the OL coach, twist it anyway you can. I never said Grimm was a bad coach but for anyone to believe he will immediately make our team better in pass protection is wishful thinking. You don't think that maybe the Steelers got to the playoffs because of a superior running game, good defense and good special teams? Was Grimm responsible for all that too?

Your arguments are complete nonsense...in just about everything you argue.

Maybe that is why the cardinals went out and signed Gandy and Johnson. Two offensive players who are known for there run blocking. That is what teams do to improve themselves. They look at their weakness and bring people in who they think can fix the weakness. The cardinals main weakness is running the ball. The cardinals have proved they can't win by just passing the ball.

You are telling me that every GM, Coach, and anyone who knows anything about football that games are not won in the trenches. Offensive line coaches are responible for the play of the offensive line. If their offensive line plays bad they get fired. So yes Russ Grimm had a big role in the Steelers super bowl win.

I know that Russ Grimm can get the Cardinals offensive line to play better in all phases of the offensive line. It is not going to take much. Espeacially when the cardinals offensive line is considered one of the worst in the league. By the way that is Grimm job to take what he has and make them the best. That is what is expected of him and that what the fans should expect of him.

I can say that your agruement is nonsense. Thinking that a superbowl winning OL coach, superbowl winning o-lineman, and someone who specializes in the offensive line can't improve one of the worst offensive line in the league. So stick to your stats and numbers and I will stick to what i see on the field. W/L records don't lie.

 

[kerouac9]

Again, stats don't tell the whole story. How many of those sacks were Roethlisberger holding the ball too long?

You mean more than Matt Leinart, the rookie with no running game to support him?

Man, the excuses really start to run thin when the logical argument starts to run out. This is the best stat that these guys have come up with. They account for the times that Roethlisberger has held onto the ball, as well as the times that Leinart did.

 

[Zeno]

So Pittsburgh went 15-1 one season and then won the Super Bowl the next in spite of the o-line? Is that the case you are trying to make?

No the case I am trying to make, to those too ignorant to understand, is that Russ Grimm's OL were not all that special. They weren't terrible but they weren't anywhere close to the best in the league. To think that him being here automatically makes the OL better is ignorant. I don't think the OL will get any worse under him, I think the run blocking will get better but I don't think he will make any signficant improvement to the passing game.

 

[Renz]

No the case I am trying to make, to those too ignorant to understand, is that Russ Grimm's OL were not all that special. They weren't terrible but they weren't anywhere close to the best in the league. To think that him being here automatically makes the OL better is ignorant. I don't think the OL will get any worse under him, I think the run blocking will get better but I don't think he will make any signficant improvement to the passing game.

Sorry, I guess Whis and Grimm are also too "ignorant" to understand your point. Seriously, you and k9 need to get your resumes into the Cardinal front office NOW!

 

[Zeno]

Sorry, I guess Whis and Grimm are also too "ignorant" to understand your point. Seriously, you and k9 need to get your resumes into the Cardinal front office NOW!

Ahh, the last resort of a baseless argument... "if you can do it better..."

 

[Renz]

Ahh, the last resort of a baseless argument... "if you can do it better..."

Good job with the labeling. When someone disagrees with k9 they are an "apologist", with you they must be "ignorant".

 

[kerouac9]

Ahh, the last resort of a baseless argument... "if you can do it better..."

No, you are!

 

[kerouac9]

If a person is just going to have faith in Grimm/Graves/ Whis, I'm not really sure why they'd bother posting on these threads. Faith runs counter to logical argument. These people don't have a logical argument, because their faith runs counter to the evidence.

Thus, they just sit there saying, "Well, if you're so smart, how come you're posting on a message board," or "Well, Grimm is regarded as one of the finest OL coaches in the NFL," conveniently forgetting that the same thing was said about Loney and Wiley before him.

I swear that some people here are like beaten dogs. Keep coming back and hoping for different results. Graves still controls the roster.

 

[Zeno]

Good job with the labeling. When someone disagrees with k9 they are an "apologist", with you they must be "ignorant".

Hey if you can show me one player that came in and became a better pass blocker under Grimm or how his OL showed that they were above average in pass blocking then you can shed your ignorant label.

I'll admit when I am wrong, I've done it before. Nobody has yet to show me the proof that Grimm will make a signficant improvement on our OL based on his coaching. Again i never said he was a bad coach...ever, not by any stretch, my whole point, again for those who fail to comprehend, is that just because Grimm is coaching the OL does not immediately equal upgrade. Everything anyone has brought up to argue my point has no substance.

Another point...just because you are part of a Super Bowl staff does not make you one of the best coaches in the game. Buddy Ryan had a Super Bowl ring and I believe Dennis Green did too as part of the 49er staff...

But I am sure you'll come back with "if your so smart maybe you should be coaching" blah blah blah

 

[vinnymac]

Hey if you can show me one player that came in and became a better pass blocker under Grimm or how his OL showed that they were above average in pass blocking then you can shed your ignorant label.

I'll admit when I am wrong, I've done it before. Nobody has yet to show me the proof that Grimm will make a signficant improvement on our OL based on his coaching. Again i never said he was a bad coach...ever, not by any stretch, my whole point, again for those who fail to comprehend, is that just because Grimm is coaching the OL does not immediately equal upgrade. Everything anyone has brought up to argue my point has no substance.

Another point...just because you are part of a Super Bowl staff does not make you one of the best coaches in the game. Buddy Ryan had a Super Bowl ring and I believe Dennis Green did too as part of the 49er staff...

But I am sure you'll come back with "if your so smart maybe you should be coaching" blah blah blah

You used the wrong people for your agruement.

Buddy Ryan for his time was considered one of the best defensive cordinator. He was responsible for one of the greatess defensive unit in NFL history. Ryan help revolutize how defenes play.

Green and Ryan have winning records as head coaches.

So yes they are considered some of the best coaches. Not the greatess coaches in the nfl, but some of the best for there time. They just didn't do good for the cardinals.

Yes winning the superbowl does make you one of the better coaches. Grimm has been around superbowls his whole career. He been a superbowl champion as player and as a coach. So that tells everyone that Coach Grimm knows how to win and knows what it takes to get to the superbowl as a player and a coach. He knows how to get the best out of his players.

 

[Pariah]

You used the wrong people for your agruement.

Buddy Ryan for his time was considered one of the best defensive cordinator. He was responsible for one of the greatess defensive unit in NFL history. Ryan help revolutize how defenes play.

Green and Ryan have winning records as head coaches.

So yes they are considered some of the best coaches. Not the greatess coaches in the nfl, but some of the best for there time. They just didn't do good for the cardinals.

Somewhere BIM's head just exploded.

 

[Renz]

You used the wrong people for your agruement.

Buddy Ryan for his time was considered one of the best defensive cordinator. He was responsible for one of the greatess defensive unit in NFL history. Ryan help revolutize how defenes play.

Green and Ryan have winning records as head coaches.

So yes they are considered some of the best coaches. Not the greatess coaches in the nfl, but some of the best for there time. They just didn't do good for the cardinals.

Yes winning the superbowl does make you one of the better coaches. Grimm has been around superbowls his whole career. He been a superbowl champion as player and as a coach. So that tells everyone that Coach Grimm knows how to win and knows what it takes to get to the superbowl as a player and a coach. He knows how to get the best out of his players.

Maybe Zero thinks Grimm is our head coach.

 

[Zeno]

Maybe Zero thinks Grimm is our head coach.

Well you seem to think he was the head coach of the Steelers because since he was the OL coach he was responsible for the W/L record. Where I seem to think Grimm is responsible for the play of his OL and not the teams W/L record.

Just like I don't blame Grimm or Whisenhunt for defensive or special teams break downs on the Steelers I don't give them credit for those same things.

The only way to measure an OL is by what they did compared to the rest of the NFL...show me another way, please, I am begging you. Make me believe that Grimm will come in and by his mere presence and coaching prowess will make our OL significantly better.

Being a member of a Super Bowl winning staff does not automatically mean you are the best coach at your position in the NFL. It seems like people here bring that up as the reason that Grimm is guaranteed success in Arizona.

 

[Renz]

Make me believe that Grimm will come in and by his mere presence and coaching prowess will make our OL significantly better.

Being a member of a Super Bowl winning staff does not automatically mean you are the best coach at your position in the NFL. It seems like people here bring that up as the reason that Grimm is guaranteed success in Arizona.

Well, I never made either of those claims, so you are asking the wrong person. I merely stated that statistics don't tell the whole story, but apparently that line of thinking is "ignorance".

 

[BullheadCardFan]

About Grimm ....

One thing I do remember during the Steelers super bowl run was that the Oline went something like 10 or 11 games in row without a penalty which helped them make the playoffs .... I think a few of them were playoff games ... that is saying something ..

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Coaches, in general, get upgraded by people because they coached on a Super Bowl winner. I think that is only natural but i also think it's a mistake. Two coaches who benefitted geatly from being on Super Bowl winning staffs were Charlie Weis and Romeo Crennel. Belichick ran that defense and everyone knows it. Crennel, it was hoped, could brings Belichick's winning ways to Cleveland but that obviously hasn't happened and NE's defense hasn't really missed a beat. As for Weis, i think Brady made him more than he made Brady. I don't think Brady has missed a beat either since Weis is gone.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

As for Weis, i think Brady made him more than he made Brady. I don't think Brady has missed a beat either since Weis is gone.

Where did Weis go .. ?? isn't he still at ND .. ??

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Where did Weis go .. ?? isn't he still at ND .. ??

Yes, he's still at ND. But, my point was that i think he's overrated.Of course everything about ND is but that's another story. He's probably gotten too much credit because of the success that Tom Brady has had and he parlayed that into being a "savior" at ND when his career there, so far, is following closely to Ty Willingham's who was run out of town. Do you ever notice that when there is a story about Weis he's always showing off his Super Bowl rings? Tom Brady would probably have been successful with Dick Jameison being the OC and Weis greatly parlayed that into "genius" status.

 

[SuperSpck]

Somewhere BIM's head just exploded.

 

[redheat]

I changed my mind, I say take Thomas. Everyone can disregard this thread

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Yes, he's still at ND. But, my point was that i think he's overrated.Of course everything about ND is but that's another story. He's probably gotten too much credit because of the success that Tom Brady has had and he parlayed that into being a "savior" at ND when his career there, so far, is following closely to Ty Willingham's who was run out of town. Do you ever notice that when there is a story about Weis he's always showing off his Super Bowl rings? Tom Brady would probably have been successful with Dick Jameison being the OC and Weis greatly parlayed that into "genius" status.

Lets see what big Charlie does now without Quinn and with his own players .. he has been riding on Ty's coat tails with the players he had .. but he did coach them up ...

I'm surprised he didn't make the jump to the NFL this year .. I know ND has a poison pill in his contract, but if teams like Atlanta are willing to give BP that kind of money I'm sure they would be willing to buy out a contract ...

Would Weis be successful at the NFL level as HC .. ?? that is the big question ..

 

[Skkorpion]

For the record, Weis is going with a two TE, two back set with big FB and 2 different power inside runners this year. The QB front runner is soph Demetrius Jones, a fast and mobile athlete who is a better runner than passer.

ND will run, run and run some more.

Weis says Brady Quinn will be a top three NFL QB within three years. I'll have a Brady Quinn article up by next Monday.

 

[Shogun]

The QB front runner is soph Demetrius Jones, a fast and mobile athlete who is a better runner than passer.

Which is saying a lot, because DJ can be filthy when it comes to passing. He's the best QB on that roster.