I see alot of people putting Minny over us...

[Goldfield]

IMO they are not a better team that the Suns. Although I do like what they have done alot!


PG: Marbury > Cassell Advantage- SUNS
SG: Penny/JJ > Wally (Just my opnion) Advantage- SUNS
SF: Marion/Zarko > Spree (I dont know their backups) Advantage- SUNS
PF: Amare < Garnett (Amare is damn good, but he is no KG yet) Advantage- Wolves
C:Jake < Candyman (Big Jake may beable to defend him) Advantage- Wolves


I dont know, I think we have a better team overall. But it will be fun to watch!


I feel we have better defense. Better Scorers. And better Rebounders. Although it could be alot of homerism

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by BEERZ
IMO they are not a better team that the Suns. Although I do like what they have done alot!


PG: Marbury > Cassell Advantage- SUNS
SG: Penny/JJ > Wally (Just my opnion) Advantage- SUNS
SF: Marion/Zarko > Spree (I dont know their backups) Advantage- SUNS
PF: Amare < Garnett (Amare is damn good, but he is no KG yet) Advantage- Wolves
C:Jake < Candyman (Big Jake may beable to defend him) Advantage- Wolves


I dont know, I think we have a better team overall. But it will be fun to watch!


I feel we have better defense. Better Scorers. And better Rebounders. Although it could be alot of homerism

PG: Marbury/Barbosa/JJ vs. Cassell/Hudson Adv: Suns
SG: JJ/Penny/CJ vs. Spreewell/Wally. Adv: Wolves
SF: Marion/Zarko vs. Wally/KG Adv: Wolves
PF: Amare/Outlaw vs. KG/Jackson Adv: Wolves
C: Tskladis/Voskuhl vs. Kandi/Jackson Adv: Wash...or Wolves

 

[boisesuns]

minnesota looks great on paper, but it will be intersting to see how they gel on the court. garnett is used to having the ball a lot, so is cassel and spree. if they can mix ego's and ball time, i think they will do well. we will do fine against them. they have more experience, but we will answer with talent and quickness.

 

[Chaplin]

Re: Re: I see alot of people putting Minny over us...

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
PG: Marbury/Barbosa/JJ vs. Cassell/Hudson Adv: Suns
SG: JJ/Penny/CJ vs. Spreewell/Wally. Adv: Wolves
SF: Marion/Zarko vs. Wally/KG Adv: Wolves
PF: Amare/Outlaw vs. KG/Jackson Adv: Wolves
C: Tskladis/Voskuhl vs. Kandi/Jackson Adv: Wash...or Wolves

You need to put players into one position. You can't have it both ways. KG either needs to be a SF or PF. On that team, he is a PF, so in comparing, you shouldn't put him in two positions because that is physically impossible. Wally is the Wolves' starting SF.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Re: Re: Re: I see alot of people putting Minny over us...

Originally posted by Chaplin
You need to put players into one position. You can't have it both ways. KG either needs to be a SF or PF. On that team, he is a PF, so in comparing, you shouldn't put him in two positions because that is physically impossible. Wally is the Wolves' starting SF.

I know, but I but Garnett doesn't really have a position.

But my point remains the same: The Wolves are better.

 

[Joe Mama]

Re: Re: Re: Re: I see alot of people putting Minny over us...

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
I know, but I but Garnett doesn't really have a position.

But my point remains the same: The Wolves are better.

It should also be pointed out that comparing position by position is not a very good way to compare two teams. Take the San Antonio Spurs or the Lakers. Many teams would have the advantage at three positions and maybe even four positions (San Antonio), but that doesn't mean the other team is necessarily better.

I would have had Minnesota ahead of us even before this latest blockbuster trade. They are a good team.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

Re: Re: Re: Re: I see alot of people putting Minny over us...

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
I know, but I but Garnett doesn't really have a position.

But my point remains the same: The Wolves are better.

But then, wouldn't you put JJ as a SF, Marbury as a SG, and Zarko and Amare as C's?

It has to go both ways.

With our draft picks, I don't think Minnesota is better because I actually think our bench is really improved, and Minne, like the Lakers, doesn't have a bench.

 

[elindholm]

I'm sorry, but I don't see how any objective fan of the league can put the Suns over the Wolves next season. Sure, as a Suns fan, I think it would be great if Phoenix did better than Minnesota next year. But I'll be really surprised if it happens.

Whenever an opposing fan says, "So-and-so's players will need time to gel," they're inventing a reason for why they hope the team won't do well. "Gelling" takes maybe a month, and a team that hasn't "gelled" might give up one or two wins in the time that it takes to make the adjustment. Talent dominates.

PG: Edge to Phoenix.

SG: I think Sprewell is good, but not as good as he used to be. If Hardaway is healthy and Johnson gets a little less shy, this is a wash.

SF: Marion is a better rebounder, but Szczerbiak is a better shooter. Neither is suited to be a primary option. Wash.

PF: Stoudemire will be better, but Garnett is an MVP candidate. Edge to Minnesota.

C: Edge to Minnesota. Olowokandi isn't that good, but Suns fans can only dream about having a center as "mediocre" as Olowokandi.

Team defense: Edge to Minnesota. They are just as quick as the Suns, longer, and more physical on the perimeter, thanks to Sprewell and/or the quirky zone that has Garnett up top.

Bench: Both benches are pretty weak. Edge to Phoenix if Cabarkapa takes quickly to the NBA (and isn't in the starting lineup, heh).

Coaching/Leadership: Edge to Minnesota. Saunders is a better coach than Johnson, and Garnett is a better on-court leader than Marbury.

 

[Chaplin]

Couple things:

Originally posted by elindholm
SF: Marion is a better rebounder, but Szczerbiak is a better shooter. Neither is suited to be a primary option. Wash.

Wally may be a better shooter, but Marion is EASILY a better scorer. How that can be a wash is beyond me. That makes no sense. You're saying that Marion is just as good as Wally Szcerbiak? Seriously??

Coaching/Leadership: ...Garnett is a better on-court leader than Marbury.

Interesting, but I'd like to see or hear your proof of this.

 

[SweetD]

Originally posted by elindholm
Marbury. [/B]

And you would do some articles for the suns board?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Sorry but Minnesota is primed to blow up.

Let's see....Cassell....bad attitude

Spree....bad attitude

Olawakandi....bad attitude

Garnett and Wally hate each other...

Just watch...this team totally implodes.

 

[sunsfn]

elindholm said,
----------------------------
C: Edge to Minnesota. Olowokandi isn't that good, but Suns fans can only dream about having a center as "mediocre" as Olowokandi.
-------------------------------------------
At the start of the season Big Jake and Olowakandi played against each other and unless you have forgotten, Olowakandi could not do anything against big Jake. Jake held him out of the middle and Olowakandi passed after missing his first 2-3 shots. The clipper coach took him out and he did not play any more that game. Big Jake made him look real bad.

I do not think Minnesota will be better than the suns.

 

[elindholm]

Chaplin:

Wally may be a better shooter, but Marion is EASILY a better scorer.

Hmm. Marion scores more, but I'm not sure if that makes him a "better" scorer. Let me explain: on every team, there are some points or rebounds that anyone on the team can get, and it doesn't really matter who. For scoring, it's who shoots technical free throws, or who tends to be the finisher on the break. Right now, Marion is the designated technical shooter and he's (probably) the leading break scorer. If Marion were unavailable, would those points still get scored? Sure, just by somebody else.

As Stoudemire develops, Marion's scoring average will go down. That's almost guarateed. That won't mean that Marion is a worse player, but he won't be putting up the same points. Marion already lost some rebounds to Stoudemire last season, and I think points are next.

I don't know whether Marion or Szczerbiak is a better "scorer," but I do think Szczerbiak is a better shooter.

Interesting, but I'd like to see or hear your proof of (the belief that Garnett is a better leader than Marbury).

Obviously I can't "prove" it, any more than I can prove that vanilla is a better flavor than chocolate. I do think Garnett is a better player than Marbury, and that he has more ways to help his team win.

sunsfn:

At the start of the season Big Jake and Olowakandi played against each other and unless you have forgotten, Olowakandi could not do anything against big Jake.

The Suns and Wolves will not play each other 82 times next season. They play against the rest of the league. Obviously Olowokandi does better against the rest of the league than Tsakalidis does.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by elindholm
Chaplin:

Wally may be a better shooter, but Marion is EASILY a better scorer.

Hmm. Marion scores more, but I'm not sure if that makes him a "better" scorer. Let me explain: on every team, there are some points or rebounds that anyone on the team can get, and it doesn't really matter who. For scoring, it's who shoots technical free throws, or who tends to be the finisher on the break. Right now, Marion is the designated technical shooter and he's (probably) the leading break scorer. If Marion were unavailable, would those points still get scored? Sure, just by somebody else.

As Stoudemire develops, Marion's scoring average will go down. That's almost guarateed. That won't mean that Marion is a worse player, but he won't be putting up the same points. Marion already lost some rebounds to Stoudemire last season, and I think points are next.

I don't know whether Marion or Szczerbiak is a better "scorer," but I do think Szczerbiak is a better shooter.

Hmm, Steve Kerr is a better shooter than Shawn Marion--I'm just wondering about your comparisons here. YOu say it's a wash based on the fact that Wally is a better shooter. You see the conondrum?

 

[elindholm]

YOu say it's a wash based on the fact that Wally is a better shooter. You see the conondrum?

Okay. I think Szczerbiak helps the Wolves as much as Marion helps the Suns. Or, very nearly as much. Let's leave it at that.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by elindholm
YOu say it's a wash based on the fact that Wally is a better shooter. You see the conondrum?

Okay. I think Szczerbiak helps the Wolves as much as Marion helps the Suns. Or, very nearly as much. Let's leave it at that.

Well, gee, Eric, didn't mean to impose on you.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Originally posted by elindholm



Hmm. Marion scores more, but I'm not sure if that makes him a "better" scorer. Let me explain: on every team, there are some points or rebounds that anyone on the team can get, and it doesn't really matter who. For scoring, it's who shoots technical free throws, or who tends to be the finisher on the break. Right now, Marion is the designated technical shooter and he's (probably) the leading break scorer. If Marion were unavailable, would those points still get scored? Sure, just by somebody else.
.

I appreciate the honest effort at being objective, but Marion is better, period.

He is a better scorer, close as a shooter, a better rebounder, and a much better defender.

McHale: Hello?

BC: It Bryan Colangelo, I was calling to see if you have interest in a trade.

KM: What ya got?

BC: Well, I was thinking--straight up--Wally for Shaw. . . .

KM: DONE! (click)

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Isn't Troy Hudson still with the Wolves?

He turned it on in the Playoffs.

 

[Billythekid]

I have to agree. I would take Marion over Wally in a heart beat!

Marion is one of the most versatile guys in the league almost a 20 10 guy at the SF position. His outside shooting has come on, he still slashes, great touch in and around the hoop, and can finish with the best of them. And can play far better D then Wally.

Just compare the numbers and Marion wins hands down.


Marion

PPG 21.2
RPG 9.5
APG 2.4
SPG 2.28
BPG 1.17
FG% .452
FT% .851
3P% .387
MPG 41.6


Wally

PPG 17.6
RPG 4.6
APG 2.6
SPG .85
BPG .42
FG% .481
FT% .867
3P% .421
MPG 35.3

 

[NDSunsfan]

Sportsradio in Minneapolis..........

is kind of cautiously excited about the pick-ups. They're happy management is finally doing something, but realize that probably both ET and turtleneck have seen better days. Still, they are definitely an upgrade, although THud did have some huge playoff games. But they might have the worst bench in the league (didn't someone already point that out around here?). And getting rid of Marc Jackson, although it sounds like he was a bit of a malcontent, makes them even thinner up front.

Surprisingly, they seem most excited about the Kandi man. I heard an interview with Flip and they asked if mgmt was worried about Kandi's up and down play and what that can be attributed to. He was hilarious, because he just said, "We attributed it to him being on the Clippers." Classic.

I think on paper they seem to have made a big upgrade, but Spree, Sam, and Wally--they might have better battles than the WWE. And it seems pretty well known that KG and Rasho didn't like each other too much, so we'll see how long it takes KG to get on Kandi for not producing.........

I'd still take the Suns over the T'Pups. They were still the only team to beat the Spurs 5 times last season. That must mean they were the second best team, right?

Brad

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Originally posted by elindholm
YOu say it's a wash based on the fact that Wally is a better shooter. You see the conondrum?

Okay. I think Szczerbiak helps the Wolves as much as Marion helps the Suns. Or, very nearly as much. Let's leave it at that.

Not to nitpick eric, but it seemed that the objective was the directly compare the players, and not compare their worth. By that standpoint, I don't think anyone could seriously argue that Wally is a better player.

 

[Goldfield]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I see alot of people putting Minny over us...

Originally posted by Chaplin
But then, wouldn't you put JJ as a SF, Marbury as a SG, and Zarko and Amare as C's?

It has to go both ways.

With our draft picks, I don't think Minnesota is better because I actually think our bench is really improved, and Minne, like the Lakers, doesn't have a bench.

Thats how I feel...

 

[schutd]

Maybe I'm a simpleton, but werent the WOlves better than us last year?

And didn't they add three well known FA's this offseason?

WHo did we add?

I think we will be improved as a team, but not enough to to compensate for the additions that Minny made.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by schutd
Maybe I'm a simpleton, but werent the WOlves better than us last year?

And didn't they add three well known FA's this offseason?

WHo did we add?

I think we will be improved as a team, but not enough to to compensate for the additions that Minny made.

Again, the makeup of the second units, to me, is what makes us a better team.

 

[elindholm]

Maybe I'm a simpleton...

You and me both.