Kevin Garnett?

[elindholm]

I don't think that is true. Correct me if I am wrong but we traded the rights to our Cleveland pick a few years back. We never got the pick because it was protected and every year it was potentially ours but Cleveland couldn't get out of the seller. However, we traded away that pick during another deal. As far as I know you are allowed to trade away potential picks unless that rule has changed.

Yes, the Suns traded away the rights to a pick that was theirs. The Hawks can't trade away the rights to a pick that (potentially) isn't theirs. That's why they'd have to use the language I put in quotation marks (or something like it). They can't trade a specific pick that they don't have the full rights to.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

3 is huge?

Um yes. You are talking about 25% difference.

 

[Covert Rain]

Um yes. You are talking about 25% difference.

So using that reasoning...by the end of the season it will average out to around 11% (with a 1.3 rebound difference). WOW. That's huge with a 4 inch height advantage.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That's huge with a 4 inch height advantage.

this is the thing you keep repeating that makes me laugh the most. It's like your sayign that Marion's a better rebounder because of his size... but guess what - MARION AIN'T GONNA GROW ANYMORE, thus who cares how tall they are? Garnett still gets more rebounds and that doesn't change, so who cares if there's a 4 inch difference? I mean, I could see how that makes a difference in guarding guys like Duncan or Dirk (which it does), but what the hell does it have to do with the rebounding discussion?

Oh - and as far as Marion's D guarding those swings, he's doing another bang up job on the Carters/T-Macs/Kobes and Redds of the world tonight.

 

[hsandhu]

Oh - and as far as Marion's D guarding those swings, he's doing another bang up job on the Carters/T-Macs/Kobes and Redds of the world tonight.

That's what pisses me off. At the end of the game there were a couple possesions on redd where he looked like the defensive player EVER. The one possesion where he got up in his face, didn't let him shoot, then redd goes by with his quick first step, but marion is quick enough to recover and swat the ball back in his face.

WHY THE HELL CAN'T HE DO THAT MOST OF THE GAME. The rest of the game, Marion's defense on redd was nothing short of humiliating.

 

[pokerface]

So using that reasoning...by the end of the season it will average out to around 11% (with a 1.3 rebound difference). WOW. That's huge with a 4 inch height advantage.

Duuuuuuude...KG is averaging 3 boards more a game....Whats this end of the season stuff about?

 

[cly2tw]

That's what pisses me off. At the end of the game there were a couple possesions on redd where he looked like the defensive player EVER. The one possesion where he got up in his face, didn't let him shoot, then redd goes by with his quick first step, but marion is quick enough to recover and swat the ball back in his face.

WHY THE HELL CAN'T HE DO THAT MOST OF THE GAME. The rest of the game, Marion's defense on redd was nothing short of humiliating.

I only saw the last 4 min of the game and was in awe of Marion's defense on Redd, so much so that I'd step down from my incumbent 'Marion-hater' position on this board once for all.

He did the same thing to TMac last game. He definitely has improved a lot about his perimeter defense, now much more patient with his moves. 2-3 years ago, when he was still guarding the 3s, he'd never be able to recover after stepping forward to deny the jump shot. Well, why can't he do that the whole game long? Maybe he needs to be mentally settling down into the focused defensive mindset first. Maybe Redd and TMac were a bit slower in the second halves. But we won this game because we made defensive stops in the end, and we lost many games precisely for the same reason, like the ones vs. Utah, Dallas, and LAL.

 

[Covert Rain]

this is the thing you keep repeating that makes me laugh the most. It's like your sayign that Marion's a better rebounder because of his size... but guess what - MARION AIN'T GONNA GROW ANYMORE, thus who cares how tall they are? Garnett still gets more rebounds and that doesn't change, so who cares if there's a 4 inch difference? I mean, I could see how that makes a difference in guarding guys like Duncan or Dirk (which it does), but what the hell does it have to do with the rebounding discussion?

Oh - and as far as Marion's D guarding those swings, he's doing another bang up job on the Carters/T-Macs/Kobes and Redds of the world tonight.

The reason the height matters is because Marion over achieves in my opinion for his height where KG should much more dominating with his. That is why it matters.

Oh and like KG could guard the carters/T-Macs/Kobes? There is a reason Marion is playing those guys versus Bell. So remove Marion and who is going to guard those guys?

Duuuuuuude...KG is averaging 3 boards more a game....Whats this end of the season stuff about?

Poker to you understand the term Career Average? Meaning that through the season their numbers will go up and down. Meaning that by season end they will be around their career average numbers. He could average 18 rebounds a game right now. It does'nt mean that's where he will end up by seasons end averaging that much. It will equal out. The career average number is a better indicator of how good a person is at a particular are of his game.

That's what pisses me off. At the end of the game there were a couple possesions on redd where he looked like the defensive player EVER. The one possesion where he got up in his face, didn't let him shoot, then redd goes by with his quick first step, but marion is quick enough to recover and swat the ball back in his face.

WHY THE HELL CAN'T HE DO THAT MOST OF THE GAME. The rest of the game, Marion's defense on redd was nothing short of humiliating.

Because Marion was NOT matched up with him the entire game. The Suns play a rotating defense and went into zone several times. Redd got lots of points off the switch. How many times did you see Bell or Barbosa get burned by Redd and score? Several. So how is the defensive scheme Marions fault exactly?

 

[sunsfn]

Steeldog said,
---------------------------------------------------------
Because Marion was NOT matched up with him the entire game. The Suns play a rotating defense and went into zone several times. Redd got lots of points off the switch. How many times did you see Bell or Barbosa get burned by Redd and score? Several. So how is the defensive scheme Marions fault exactly?
-----------------------------------------

I agree!
During the games with the Lakers, D'Antoni said that Marion did not want to switch off Odom because when he did Odom would score on the other player and Marion would get blamed for it. Odom is a tough one for Marion to defend, but he does a great job against a taller very athletic player.

Marion has been doing a great job on defense for years now, I think many of you have just missed realizing that. He gets switched off during the course of a game as others do, but the player he is guarding does not do well at that time.

The other thing is that we are expecting 20 points from Marion every game also. He is quite often guarding their best offensive player and has to concentrate on that as well as very quickly switching to offense once the shot goes up. I think it is amazing how many times he is playing solid defense on someone like Redd and after the player shoots, Marion is the first down and gets a dunk. MARION IS A HELL OF A PLAYER!!

 

[jbeecham]

Don't forget that Marion also guards PGs & Sgs when asked to and KG would never be able to do that. Also, KG gets 13 rebs per game right now, but who else plays on Minny to compete with him? We've got Marion, Amare & KT all capable of getting double digit rebs every game. For a 6'7 guy to be among the league leaders in rebs every year plus guard any position on the court and score 20pts/game is very impressive and I don't think KG will be as effective here as Marion is.

 

[slinslin]

He would because he does everything better than Marion. He is a better defender too. Ok so you dont play Garnett to defend PGs, instead you have a much better interior presence to protect the rim. I take that anytime and Garnett isn't getting his rebounds like Marion, Garnett actually blocks out his man and gets position. He is also 10 times the passer Marion is and 10 times the shooter.

 

[slinslin]

Poker to you understand the term Career Average? Meaning that through the season their numbers will go up and down. Meaning that by season end they will be around their career average numbers. He could average 18 rebounds a game right now. It does'nt mean that's where he will end up by seasons end averaging that much. It will equal out. The career average number is a better indicator of how good a person is at a particular are of his game.

Do you even know how stupid that sounds? Garnett came into the league out of highschool , his career averages of course aren't nearly as good as his season stats in the last 6 years.

Career averages mean absolutey NOTHING.

 

[jbeecham]

The next highest rebounder in Minny gets 5.7 rebs/game......no wonder KG gets 13. If Marion was on that team, he'd probably average 13 too. Except I just checked the Twolves stats and KG only averages 11.8 rebs/game over the 1st 15 games, not 13.

For comparison, Amare averages 7.9 (brought down by games early in the season & his poor game against the Hornets), KT averages 6.5 because his playing time has been limited with Amare back. Marion's sitting at 9.4 rebs/game. Their Block & Steal stats are almost identical. Marion averages 1 less assist per game, but also has 1 less turnover per game. KG's getting 2.6 more pts per game.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The reason the height matters is because Marion over achieves in my opinion for his height where KG should much more dominating with his. That is why it matters.

great - he overachieves... does it ultimately get him more rebounds? NO. That's why it DOESN'T matter.

Oh and like KG could guard the carters/T-Macs/Kobes? There is a reason Marion is playing those guys versus Bell. So remove Marion and who is going to guard those guys?

and again - Marion DOESN'T guard KOBE - Bell does and when Marion does, like in Game 6 or the last regular season game against the Lakers last year, Kobe drops 45 or 55 on his ass. And again, T-Mac and Carter aren't an issue and we can have anyone out there guarding Redd if we want him dropping 37. But what Marion CAN'T do is guard Dirk or Duncan, which what Garnett CAN. But again - you seem to just completely ignore the fact that Marion has nothing to do with Kobe and that he's a matchup liability against the bigs in the West.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The next highest rebounder in Minny gets 5.7 rebs/game......no wonder KG gets 13. If Marion was on that team, he'd probably average 13 too. Except I just checked the Twolves stats and KG only averages 11.8 rebs/game over the 1st 15 games, not 13.

For comparison, Amare averages 7.9 (brought down by games early in the season & his poor game against the Hornets), KT averages 6.5 because his playing time has been limited with Amare back. Marion's sitting at 9.4 rebs/game. Their Block & Steal stats are almost identical. Marion averages 1 less assist per game, but also has 1 less turnover per game. KG's getting 2.6 more pts per game.

 

[Ronin]

and again - Marion DOESN'T guard KOBE - Bell does and when Marion does, like in Game 6 or the last regular season game against the Lakers last year, Kobe drops 45 or 55 on his ass.

I don't mean to be jumping on anybody, but to be fair to Marion he wanst the only one guarding Kobe Bryant in Game Six. Shawn was also guarding Lamar Odom, and Kobe Bryant has scored fifty on Raja Bell also.

Another sequence that i think is worth mentioning
Game 4 of the Lakers series in overtime, Kobe takes the final jumpshot over Raja bell.....Ball game. Lakers lead series 3-1

Game 6 of Lakers series in regulation, Kobe takes a heavily contested jumpshot over Marion....overtime, and Suns go onto win that game

 

[elindholm]

I really don't understand this debate. If you want to know whether Garnett is better than Marion, just watch them play. If that doesn't make the answer clear, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I really don't understand this debate. If you want to know whether Garnett is better than Marion, just watch them play. If that doesn't make the answer clear, I don't know what to tell you.

LOL thank you Eric!

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't mean to be jumping on anybody, but to be fair to Marion he wanst the only one guarding Kobe Bryant in Game Six. Shawn was also guarding Lamar Odom, and Kobe Bryant has scored fifty on Raja Bell also.

Another sequence that i think is worth mentioning
Game 4 of the Lakers series in overtime, Kobe takes the final jumpshot over Raja bell.....Ball game. Lakers lead series 3-1

Game 6 of Lakers series in regulation, Kobe takes a heavily contested jumpshot over Marion....overtime, and Suns go onto win that game

bottom line - Shawn DOESN'T cover Kobe, and even when Kobe goes nuts, we still win, as we do most of the time against perimeter players who go nuts on us. Our problem isn't on the perimeter - it's Shawn having to be matched up against the likes of Duncan and Dirk, who punish us down low and on the boards.

 

[slinslin]

Trying to argue that Shawn Marion is equal to Kevin Garnett based on stats is like saying Joe Johnson is equal to Kobe Bryant. Kevin Garnett is simply better than Marion in every aspect. That's why Garnett gets more recognition, that's why Garnett gets those individual honors that Shawn Marion will never get..

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

That's why Garnett gets more recognition, that's why Garnett gets those individual honors that Shawn Marion will never get..

And why every single team would take Garnett over Marion. Even with Garnett making 6 million more

 

[zett]

Is this the same Garnett that held Amare to 50 points, This is the one that guard duncan? good and bad games come and go, The only real difference in there games is garnett can create a shot for himself better and marion gets out on the break better, The rest of the differences are minimal. ( KG is probably more clutch)

 

[Cheesebeef]

Is this the same Garnett that held Amare to 50 points,

nothing like throwing a gross exaggeration out there to try and make your point. What game exactly was it that Amare hung 50 on Garnett? The only thing better than exaggerating during a rational discussion is...

The only real difference in there games is garnett can create a shot for himself better and marion gets out on the break better, The rest of the differences are minimal. ( KG is probably more clutch)

...follwing that exaggerations with a gross understatement as well. I guess the MUTLIPLE All 1st and 2nd Defensive Team awards that Garnett has recieved don't differentiate him at all from a guy who's NEVER Made EITHER 1st and 2nd team, right?

 

[zett]

I believe it was his rookie year or possibly 2nd year, It is possible that it was 40 and not 50 my memery is not that good right now. But I do know at the time it was a career high for stat. in either case amare took him too the cleaners, my whole point is anyones capable of getting abused on any givin night, the way some of you are bashing Marion for giving up huge games to big time scorer's, it happens. first team and second teams are voted on it's as much about team as individual reputation and the suns rep for D rightfully sucks!

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

It was 38. A very good game, especially considering Amare was a rookie - but it is far from a huge scoring outburst game.

Was Garnett even guarding Amare very much that game?