If Belichick Was Calling The Shots

[GoldGloveschmidt]

big difference.. we're fans of the cards, he's an employee of the cards. not that he doesn't want to win, but don't you think the shareholders of your company wish you'd work for a fraction of what you do now?

I don't see that as a valid comparison. I'm not on the last leg of my career, chasing a super bowl ring, under a strict salary cap. My pay doesn't affect my company's ability to field a competitive team. (I EARN the company money and they keep most of it anyway, they don't actually pay me).

Palmer has said multiple times that he's not playing for the money. He could have retired after Cinci. If that's the case and he's truly just interested in the ring then he shouldn't have one of the biggest cap hits in the NFL. Brady understands it.

 

[Mitch]

I don't see that as a valid comparison. I'm not on the last leg of my career, chasing a super bowl ring, under a strict salary cap. My pay doesn't affect my company's ability to field a competitive team.

Palmer has said multiple times that he's not playing for the money. He could have retired after Cinci. If that's the case and he's truly just interested in the ring then he shouldn't have one of the biggest cap hits in the NFL. Brady understands it.

Boy for a QB who is supposedly not playing for the money, his salary is going to eat up 1/7 of the team's 2017 salary cap. You said it, GoldGloveschmidt, Brady understands it...why can't Palmer?

 

[unseenaz]

I don't see that as a valid comparison. I'm not on the last leg of my career, chasing a super bowl ring, under a strict salary cap. My pay doesn't affect my company's ability to field a competitive team. (I EARN the company money and they keep most of it anyway, they don't actually pay me).

Palmer has said multiple times that he's not playing for the money. He could have retired after Cinci. If that's the case and he's truly just interested in the ring then he shouldn't have one of the biggest cap hits in the NFL. Brady understands it.

He didn't demand that contract keim gave it to him. You really expect palmer to head into cards HQ and volunteer 9 million bucks?

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

He didn't demand that contract keim gave it to him. You really expect palmer to head into cards HQ and volunteer 9 million bucks?

If he truly wants to win a chamionship, yes. Or at least offer to Keim hey, if you think you can sign some badass o-line or WR, but need more cap space, I might be flexible. Maybe he has said that. Who knows.

I agree it's not all on Palmer. Keim should not have paid him so much,

In the theme of the thread, BB would have never given Palmer this cap-killing contract.

 

[unseenaz]

If he truly wants to win a chamionship, yes.

I agree it's not all on Palmer. Keim should not have paid him so much,

In the theme of the thread, BB would have never given Palmer this cap-killing contract.

True

 

[Mitch]

He didn't demand that contract keim gave it to him. You really expect palmer to head into cards HQ and volunteer 9 million bucks?

Palmer can make up all kinds of salary through commercial deals---that's what Brady does. If CP really wants a ring---then throw some money back into the FA pool---it could mean the Cardinals are able to sign RG Kevin Zeitler (6-4, 309, 6, CIN) to make the o-line potentially great---do it.

 

[Cardiac]

He didn't demand that contract keim gave it to him. You really expect palmer to head into cards HQ and volunteer 9 million bucks?

I'm sure Palmers agent negotiated that contract and Keim didn't suddenly decide to "make it rain" so Palmer would take more clothes off.

I agree with Goldschmidt that Palmer should lower his CAP hit and not just by kicking the can farther down the road.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

That is pretty accurate. That is what Belichek would do, IMO. Well, all except re-sign Frostee Rucker. He would never sign a player that old, even for the vet min. Oh, and he would make Bethel take a pay cut, what did Bethel do this year in special teams that made him stand out ? Nothing. Belichek is a stickler for doing your job, and Bethel didn't.

I will say this. It would be interesting to see what Belichek would be able to do without Brady as his QB.

 

[az240zz]

I will say this. It would be interesting to see what Belichek would be able to do without Brady as his QB.

My guess he would still win but not as much as. 9-7,10-6,

 

[cardpa]

I'm sure Palmers agent negotiated that contract and Keim didn't suddenly decide to "make it rain" so Palmer would take more clothes off.

I agree with Goldschmidt that Palmer should lower his CAP hit and not just by kicking the can farther down the road.

I'm not sure you can lower his cap and not kick the can down the road. I think the only way you lower his cap is by converting salary into bonus which means you have to pay it down the road. You can probably extend the contract and spread out the bonus money over more years with the salary being a vets minimum. Either way you have to pay him at some point all that is due to him.

 

[Mitch]

I'm not sure you can lower his cap and not kick the can down the road. I think the only way you lower his cap is by converting salary into bonus which means you have to pay it down the road. You can probably extend the contract and spread out the bonus money over more years with the salary being a vets minimum. Either way you have to pay him at some point all that is due to him.

Palmer can accept a pay cut which would lower his $9.5M base salary. The guaranteed money he signed for is not going to change, but the base salary can.

 

[ajcardfan]

If 'ifs and buts' were candy and nuts, this party would be a lot better.

 

[Cardiac]

I'm not sure you can lower his cap and not kick the can down the road. I think the only way you lower his cap is by converting salary into bonus which means you have to pay it down the road. You can probably extend the contract and spread out the bonus money over more years with the salary being a vets minimum. Either way you have to pay him at some point all that is due to him.

What Mitch posted and yeah I don't see it happening but Palmer should consider it IMHO.

 

[cardpa]

If 'ifs and buts' were candy and nuts, this party would be a lot better.

If the "if" and "buts" were beer and shots it would be even better than nuts and candy.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Did anyone else notice that BA adjusted his offense the 2nd half of the season to a short/intermediate passing game because of injuries & the hits Palmer was taking? The offense became better & they hit some big pass plays as well. They played much better that 2nd half as well. It could be a new philosophy going forward.

Mitch is right JG excels in that style of passing game, plus he's game ready unlike these rooks you guys are wanting to invest in. IMO he's worth the gamble along with McCarron. People forget Garropalo broke all of Romos records in college & is a very similar QB as him, which isn't a bad thing.

Did he? Or did CP just start taking what the defense was giving him? I think it was a latter, simply because none of the blocking schemes were/looked any different, none of the alignments looked any different, and from what I could see there were still deep looks on every pass play.

 

[WisconsinCard]

If Palmer would lower his cap hit to 15m like Brady that would be huge. 24 million is ridiculous. That extra 9 million for Keim to work with would give him a lot more juice to fill holes on this roster. If Palmer is truly going all in on winning a championship then that's what he needs to be willing to give up for the sake of the team.

The reason Brady's cap number is so small is because it is spread over more years. So the only way for CP to lower his cap number would be to extend his current deal. Which means he either plays longer or you take a major cap hit the year he retires. I think it's a simple case of that is the going rate for QB's these days and what happens when you don't "groom" your own QB. You take a proven QB and you're going to have to pay for it.

 

[Russ Smith]

In all fairness Mitch this is basically a list of what you think we should do but you're suggesting BB would do it.

the very first item on the list is not BB at all, he's the guy that swindles some other team into trading for Garappolo not the guy that trades for him.

 

[ajcardfan]

In all fairness Mitch this is basically a list of what you think we should do but you're suggesting BB would do it.

It is an acceptable pastime for English teachers to write fantasy stories.

 

[Mitch]

In all fairness Mitch this is basically a list of what you think we should do but you're suggesting BB would do it.

the very first item on the list is not BB at all, he's the guy that swindles some other team into trading for Garappolo not the guy that trades for him.

What would BB do without Brady? I think that he would trade for Garoppolo rather than go after Mike Glennon or another one of the so-so UFA QBs this year, because Garoppolo is a system fit and he knows the offense.

I do not think that BB would see Palmer as the right kind of QB for his system. He's not what one would call a quick trigger QB. That's what BB likes.

Remember, Russ, BB is trading Garoppolo because Brady is going to play another 3-4 years. They want value in return for players they aren't going to be able to re-sign---like Chandler Jones and Jamie Collins.

Jones and Collins are good players---but they were going to be too expensive for BB's liking---so they want draft picks in return in order to re-fill the cupboard.

Russ, BB has shown he will give up good draft picks to get players he likes---Wes Welker, Martellus Bennett, Randy Moss, etc.

I am not 100% sure I like all the moves that i think BB would make---but I thought it would be interesting to speculate on them.

 

[Mitch]

It is an acceptable pastime for English teachers to write fantasy stories.

Haha, AJ! This absolutely was a fantasy story---but i was hoping it would raise some interesting discussions and thoughts about organizational philosophies.

 

[Russ Smith]

What would BB do without Brady? I think that he would trade for Garoppolo rather than go after Mike Glennon or another one of the so-so UFA QBs this year, because Garoppolo is a system fit and he knows the offense.

I do not think that BB would see Palmer as the right kind of QB for his system. He's not what one would call a quick trigger QB. That's what BB likes.

Remember, Russ, BB is trading Garoppolo because Brady is going to play another 3-4 years. They want value in return for players they aren't going to be able to re-sign---like Chandler Jones and Jamie Collins.

Jones and Collins are good players---but they were going to be too expensive for BB's liking---so they want draft picks in return in order to re-fill the cupboard.

Russ, BB has shown he will give up good draft picks to get players he likes---Wes Welker, Martellus Bennett, Randy Moss, etc.

I am not 100% sure I like all the moves that i think BB would make---but I thought it would be interesting to speculate on them.

Well how did BB get in charge of the Cardinals though?

If we're going to completely change the entire system

What would BB do without Brady? I think that he would trade for Garoppolo rather than go after Mike Glennon or another one of the so-so UFA QBs this year, because Garoppolo is a system fit and he knows the offense.

I do not think that BB would see Palmer as the right kind of QB for his system. He's not what one would call a quick trigger QB. That's what BB likes.

Remember, Russ, BB is trading Garoppolo because Brady is going to play another 3-4 years. They want value in return for players they aren't going to be able to re-sign---like Chandler Jones and Jamie Collins.

Jones and Collins are good players---but they were going to be too expensive for BB's liking---so they want draft picks in return in order to re-fill the cupboard.

Russ, BB has shown he will give up good draft picks to get players he likes---Wes Welker, Martellus Bennett, Randy Moss, etc.

I am not 100% sure I like all the moves that i think BB would make---but I thought it would be interesting to speculate on them.

That confuses me because you said this is what BB would do if he became the Cards coach and GM. Why would he trade a 2nd and 3rd rounder for a QB he only used a 2nd round pick on himself a few years ago? Especially if said QB is a system QB but in a system his new team does NOT run and if they're going to run it requires an overhaul of other positions too.

If he became the Cards Gm and coach I agree he wouldn't commit to Palmer long term, but neither are the Cards. I submit that he would look at the offense and determine the future is David Johnson, we need to upgrade the defense in a few key spots, identify a backup RB so we don't kill DJ with too much workload(might be Kerwynn might be a back somewhere else) and fix the ST.

I don't think he'd go out and trade for a QB that doesn't push the ball downfield and then have to acquire a bunch of Wr's that fit that, get 2 TE's since he loves the 2 TE set etc. I think he has the system he has because Brady was so good at it it made sense. I think if he came to the Cards he'd figure out what pieces are there and then build around those.

 

[cardncubfan]

I'll leave this here. It has a couple of articles on the Cards. One being QB ranking by pay. Palmer is at a 21 mil per year average while Tom Brady is at 20.5 mil per year.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...kings-cardinals-patriots-packers-z/488332001/

 

[BigRedRage]

so many patriot threads....

 

[Jetstream Green]

Living three miles from Gilette Stadium for the past 16 years, I have spent a good deal of time trying to understand Bill Belichick and his football philosophies. It has come to the point where the moves he makes can be readily predicted.

Thus I thought it would be interesting to predict what Belichick would do if suddenly he was the HC/GM of the Arizona Cardinals.

Moves:

1. Trade for QB Jimmy Garoppolo---give up a 2017 2nd rounder and a 2018 3rd rounder. JG fits BB's QB profile because of his high FBI and his ability to make quick throws into the seams and up the middle on an array of "option" routes---the slot WR or TE will read where the leverage is in coverage and run opposite of where the leverage is. This requires the QB to make the same reads that the slot WR and TE does. In BB's offense they never throw to spots---they read, react and throw---and if the initial reads aren't clear, the QB then looks for the RB who slips open underneath the intermediate coverage.

2. Release or trade QBs Carson Palmer and Drew Stanton. BB does not believe in using millions of dollars in cap space to keep a veteran backup QB. He believes in drafting and grooming a young QB behind the starter.

3. Trade T Jared Veldheer for a 4th or 5th round pick. BB believes in getting some value for veterans whose skills and overall play are somewhat on the decline. BB would also see that D.J. Humphries looked good at LT and that John Wetzel looked promising at RT. BB would put him in competition with a draft pick T and Ulrich John.

4. Talk WR Larry Fitzgerald into staying---and in essence, he will mean to the Cardinals' offense what Gronk means to the NE offense.

5. Release or trade DB Tyvon Branch and DT Cory Peters to gain $5.8M on the cap.

6. BB would retain CB Justin Bethel who would be his STs captain a la All-Pro STs player Matthew Slater, but also BB would want to coach up Bethel big-time because of Bethel's physical abilities. Now---Bethel would immediately have a better chance in BB's defense because BB does the opposite of what the Cardinals do. BB puts the #2 CB on the opponents' best WR but bracket him with a safety so that he can be aggressive and know he has help. The #1 CB is isolated on the opponents' 2nd best receiver.

Note: BB is also very high on CB Brandon Williams---whom he brought in to Foxboro for a pre-draft workout. There is no better coach in the NFL at developing CBs and DBs than BB.

7. BB would sign the following UFA's:

* WR Pierre Garcon (WAS)---can play equally well wide or in the slot and BB wants great receivers in the slot.
* DE Lawrence Guy (BAL)---in the base 34, he slides in at DE opposite Josh Mauro (whom BB would love)
* CB Logan Ryan (NE)---thrives in BB's system.
* FB James Develin (NE)---has been BB's FB and STs stalwart in NE.
* S Duron Harmon (NE)---plays safety and nickel CB and STs
* TE Luke Willson (SEA)---has the speed and hands to become a breakout player in BB's offense
* OLB/DE John Simon (HOU)---classic BB type 34 edge banger

8. BB Re-signing Cardinals' UFA's???:

* Chandler Jones---will put f-tag on him but will trade him for a 2nd round pick plus a 2018 4th.
* Calais Campbell---no.
* D.J. Swearinger---yes.
* Tony Jefferson---no.
* Jermaine Gresham---no.
* Darren Fells---no.
* A.Q. Shipley---no.
* Earl Watford---no.
* Frostee Rucker---yes.
* Kevin Minter---no.
* Sio Moore---yes.

The common denominator here is that BB will not overpay for Jones, Campbell, Jefferson and Gresham. He would re-sign Swearinger if the figures are reasonable. If not BB would probably try to sign FS/ST/CB Michael Thomas (MIA). Rucker, Fells and Moore would all sign affordable contracts slightly above the minimum.

9. BB's 2017 Draft:

Trade #13 to Green Bay for picks #24 and #88.

1. RB/WR/PR Christian McCaffrey, Stanford. The quintessential BB playmaker. Made to order.
2. (Chandler Jones trade) QB Pat Mahomes, Texas Tech.
3. Ryan Anderson, OLB, Alabama
3. (Green Bay trade) WR Cooper Kupp, Eastern Washington
4. Forest Lamp, T/G, Western Kentucky
5. John Johnson, FS/CB, Boston College
5. (Veldheer trade) Ben Boulware, LB Clemson
5. (comp pick) Trayvon Hester, DT, Toldeo
6. Isaac Asiata, G/C, Utah
7. Jacob Hollister, TE, Wyoming

Interestingly, The Cardinals have a BB advocate as their VP of Player Personnel in Terry McDonough and there have been some hints of similar philosophies in SK and TMcD.

You left out the part where the crowd would have to endure Bon Jovi on the stereo system during each commercial lol

 

[WildBB]

I'll leave this here. It has a couple of articles on the Cards. One being QB ranking by pay. Palmer is at a 21 mil per year average while Tom Brady is at 20.5 mil per year.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...kings-cardinals-patriots-packers-z/488332001/

Yes it's still concerning. They're trying for One Last Gasp Run for the Lombardi. That's how they drafted this time out, and are positioned for next off season stockpiling picks.

The Cardinals have the 27th best QB situation in the NFL, according to rotoworld.com's Patrick Daugherty.

Daugherty writes: "An injury risk in irreversible decline, Carson Palmer is a ticking time bomb under center. Behind him are mega-bust Blaine Gabbert and journeyman Drew Stanton. Stanton was not up to the challenge when Palmer missed 10 games with injury in 2014. Few teams in football were in more dire need of adding a young quarterback this offseason, but the Cardinals passed. They’re using duct tape and glue to keep Palmer together for his age-37 campaign, going as far as to eliminate his spring throws. Palmer is fully aware the end is near, taking two months to decide his 2017 status. To Palmer’s credit, he stabilized last season after a dreadful start. There are just too many warning signs for the Cardinals to feel comfortable. Palmer is no longer year to year, he’s game to game. Finding his successor is all coach Bruce Arians and GM Steve Keim should be thinking about between now and next spring."