If Kolb fails someone better be held accountable this offseason

[CtCardinals78]

The fans were all sold on Kolb by the coaching staff and FO. Despite red flags about Kolb the Cards went ahead and pulled the trigger to get Kolb. They paid him #1 coin, got rid of a 1st round pick and passed on a number of QBs in the 2011 draft. With the amount invested in this deal, it doesn't take a giant leap to think that a couple of key people's future with this organization should be tied to this deal.

If Kolb fails to win this starting job it should be a clear signal to the Bidwills that a competent GM talent should be brought in. I'm not in favor for firing Graves, I like him and think he's doing a much better job structuring contracts. Someone needs to come in and focus on getting talent and let Graves do contracts and let Whisenhunt coach.

There is something broken and dysfunctional with this team if they fail to have any sort of success while gambling so much on Kolb.

I don't think Whisenhunt should be fired, but if this team ends with miserable record and Kolb's a backup his seat better be getting very warm. A lot was sold to us with this Kolb deal and a lot of accountability better be held to these people who sold us on this deal.

The Cardinals better do all they can to keep Ray Horton with this organization, they may need him badly in 2014.

 

[BigRedRage]

Someone needs to come in and focus on getting talent and let Graves do contracts and let Whisenhunt coach.

This has already been done. Keim handles scouting, graves handles negotations, some account guy shows graves how to add. happened this offseason.

 

[CtCardinals78]

This has already been done. Keim handles scouting, graves handles negotations, some account guy shows graves how to add. happened this offseason.

I forgot about that. Is he considered a full time GM though, with final say in all personnel matters?

 

[BigRedRage]

so but he is considered mostly what you were asking for.

 

[kerouac9]

I forgot about that. Is he considered a full time GM though, with final say in all personnel matters?

That's the crux of the problem. No one person has final say in all personnel matters. It's a process of consensus, and if you're looking to build consensus, then you're working in an environment where top-line players are compromises like Daryn College and Adam Snyder, and the guys who get sponsorship from the staff are people like Brandon Keith.

You'll hit a lot more singles and doubles, but if no one can stake their reputation or job on a guy, it's difficult to hit grand slams. Mac and Keim swung hard on Anquan Boldin, and it was a home run. Green put everything into Larry Fitzgerald.

There was a lack of consensus on Adrian Peterson, so we settled on Levi Brown.

To the OP, I think that the results of the season matter. If Kolb fails but we got 8-8 against what I consider a difficult schedule, then it's a learning experience. If Kolb fails and we go 5-11, I think it should cost someone their job.

But who are you going to fire? Whis? Grimm? We fired the QB coach last year. Graves? IMO, Mike Bidwill probably was the ultimate decider on the Kolb deal. Maybe he holds the main guy talking in his ear responsible.

 

[earthsci]

Maybe he holds the main guy talking in his ear responsible.

Larry Fitzgerald?

 

[Goldfield]

I disagree. The Cards needed a qb and they gambled on the hottest young name available. You can't blame the organization for trying. It was an epic fail.

Orton would of been much better and cost much less. Oh well.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Larry Fitzgerald?

 

[az jam]

I disagree. The Cards needed a qb and they gambled on the hottest young name available. You can't blame the organization for trying. It was an epic fail.

Orton would of been much better and cost much less. Oh well.

That is the reality of the situation. Bidwill, Keim, Graves & Whiz all were in agreement on the Kolb deal.

 

[kerouac9]

That is the reality of the situation. Bidwill, Keim, Graves & Whiz all were in agreement on the Kolb deal.

And you have this on whose authority? If that's the case, and all were 110% dedicated to Kevin Kolb being a successful quarterback for the Arizona Cardinals, then fire all of them.

I just have a hard time believing that you could get thee and a half professional football people to fully commit enthusiastically over such a limited prospect (even at the time). Everyone might have agreed that he was the best option available at the moment, but they took the best option available at the moment and committed to him in a way that suggested at they thought he'd be the best available option for five or six years.

 

[Dayman]

I agree with the OP. Someone will get canned over this Kolb disaster.

The Bidwills have done an amazing job opening their wallet lately, but they still can't be happy sinking over $20 million into a guy who can't even beat out the QB with the second lowest completion percentage in the league last season. It's simply bad business.

I thought Whis would be the one to go when the team was 1-6 last season. Now I think the focus is squarely on Mr. Graves. No matter what the structure, GMs are ultimately responsible for personnel decisions, and this personnel decision was a job killer.

 

[BigRedRage]

And you have this on whose authority? If that's the case, and all were 110% dedicated to Kevin Kolb being a successful quarterback for the Arizona Cardinals, then fire all of them.

I just have a hard time believing that you could get thee and a half professional football people to fully commit enthusiastically over such a limited prospect (even at the time). Everyone might have agreed that he was the best option available at the moment, but they took the best option available at the moment and committed to him in a way that suggested at they thought he'd be the best available option for five or six years.

thats what it took to get the best at the moment, so be it. They pulled the trigger and took a shot and failed. There werent many other routes to go.

Although, I had 3 other QBs i wanted over kolb. Thats ok tho. Here we are.

 

[NashDishesDimes]

As dissapoonting as it is i give the fromt pffice a lot pf credit for confidently going after someone with an open wallet and doing what it takes to win.

 

[CtCardinals78]

As dissapoonting as it is i give the fromt pffice a lot pf credit for confidently going after someone with an open wallet and doing what it takes to win.

As do I, but they should have done their homework better. If fans could see all the flags with Kolb surely the professionals should have seen them.

 

[az jam]

And you have this on whose authority? If that's the case, and all were 110% dedicated to Kevin Kolb being a successful quarterback for the Arizona Cardinals, then fire all of them.

I just have a hard time believing that you could get thee and a half professional football people to fully commit enthusiastically over such a limited prospect (even at the time). Everyone might have agreed that he was the best option available at the moment, but they took the best option available at the moment and committed to him in a way that suggested at they thought he'd be the best available option for five or six years.

K-9, we are both saying the same thing. He was the guy they targeted and went after. There was never any hint of dissent. I believe that they all thought they had their qb of the future in Kolb. That is why they gave him the big contract. I don't have any inside information but they certainly had a positive team approach on the signing. We know that things certainly have changed.

 

[Phrazbit]

thats what it took to get the best at the moment, so be it. They pulled the trigger and took a shot and failed. There werent many other routes to go.

Although, I had 3 other QBs i wanted over kolb. Thats ok tho. Here we are.

If you find yourself hungry but you're in the bathroom, you dont eat the soap because its the best option available. You go looking for something better, even if it means you have to wait a bit.

They backed themselves into a corner because of previous QB mistakes and because they ignored the problem in the 2011 draft (according to some because they had already stupidly committed to trading for Kolb). I cant give them a pat on the back and a "good effort", for making the worst of a bad situation... that they put themselves in.

 

[Phrazbit]

As do I, but they should have done their homework better. If fans could see all the flags with Kolb surely the professionals should have seen them.

I think a lot of professionals did see the flaws. There was almost no market for Kolb's services outside of Arizona. And I'd assume that people in our organization had their reservations too, but the big wigs in the FO were either too blind or too desperate to heed caution.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

I'm beginning to think Whiz has no idea how to analyze QB prospects accurately -- the writing was all over every other wall in the NFL that Kolb wasn't worth anything relatively close to what the Cards gave up, as well as the contract he was given. The cards bid against themselves in the deal (no one else was pursuing Kolb), they gave him a huge contract for no apparent reason, handed over the starting position with no try-out, and now no one will be held accountable because they can use the excuse that "at least we tried". Whisenhunt hand-picked Kolb, and he ended up being one of the worst starting QB's in the NFL -- not the type of talent evaluation you want out of a season HC...

 

[kerouac9]

K-9, we are both saying the same thing. He was the guy they targeted and went after. There was never any hint of dissent. I believe that they all thought they had their qb of the future in Kolb. That is why they gave him the big contract. I don't have any inside information but they certainly had a positive team approach on the signing. We know that things certainly have changed.

Maybe, but what was going to happen the day that the signing occurred? Go back to 2010, and you have Whis out there praising the signing of Derek Anderson while at the same time he's quietly begging the front office to get their hooks in Marc Bulger (allegedly).

The people who are leaking out to the media reports like Kolb isn't completely committed to football, that Skelton has the lead in the starting job, that the locker room favors John Skelton are the individuals either letting their initial lack of enthusiasm known or practicing some real CYA with his possible implosion on the horizon.

If Kolb ends up getting cut (a scenario I have a difficult time imagining, but there's still three weeks to come, and it wasn't until the end of August we started hearing these things about Leinart), someone should lose their job. If Kolb just spends a season holding a clip board and gets 150 attempts scattered over the course of an otherwise successful season (I think 8-8 against this schedule would be a success), then just part ways and own up to the mistake.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

The fans were all sold on Kolb by the coaching staff and FO. Despite red flags about Kolb the Cards went ahead and pulled the trigger to get Kolb. They paid him #1 coin, got rid of a 1st round pick and passed on a number of QBs in the 2011 draft. With the amount invested in this deal, it doesn't take a giant leap to think that a couple of key people's future with this organization should be tied to this deal.

If Kolb fails to win this starting job it should be a clear signal to the Bidwills that a competent GM talent should be brought in. I'm not in favor for firing Graves, I like him and think he's doing a much better job structuring contracts. Someone needs to come in and focus on getting talent and let Graves do contracts and let Whisenhunt coach.

There is something broken and dysfunctional with this team if they fail to have any sort of success while gambling so much on Kolb.

I don't think Whisenhunt should be fired, but if this team ends with miserable record and Kolb's a backup his seat better be getting very warm. A lot was sold to us with this Kolb deal and a lot of accountability better be held to these people who sold us on this deal.

The Cardinals better do all they can to keep Ray Horton with this organization, they may need him badly in 2014.

As much as I respect this post, I personally don't agree with it.

I think the Cardinals did what they thought was best. Finding a QB is not that easy. Teams like the Colts, and the Packers are rarities in which you follow up a NFL quality QB with another. Again, it happens Montana to Young, but then it doesn't happen, Marino to .............................

Plus I can sit here and say they should have signed Matt Hasselbeck or Marc Bulger, like I thought we should have, but would either of those two done any better ? I dunno.

Getting a QB for an NFL franchise seems very hard. Again, not to say that I expect the Cardinals front office, and coaching staff to be able to accomplish this feat but on the other hand, many teams stuggle with it.

The one thing I can say against the Cardinals ? I think Whiz and his offense, and his "system" are flawed. Can't seem to find a QB who can understand and run his system, and that seems to have been going for Whiz's entire coaching career. Can't seem to find an offensive line that can understand the system either.

So while there is blame to be had, I don't know for sure who much you can slam any NFL organization for not finding a quality QB.

 

[oaken1]

I have never been a fan of wiz...or of him being the HC...but I think he does a heck of a lot of PR rah rah for his superiors and the organization as a whole regardless of what his personal opinion may be.

Before I would fire wiz or graves....I would fire Grimm and Miller... the majority of this teams issues occur within three seconds of the snap....either the line fails, or the QB freaks and runs out of the pocket(while taking his eyes off his targets no less) those issues need to be addressed and they are too continous to be anything other than coaching IMO.

 

[BigRedRage]

If you find yourself hungry but you're in the bathroom, you dont eat the soap because its the best option available. You go looking for something better, even if it means you have to wait a bit.

They backed themselves into a corner because of previous QB mistakes and because they ignored the problem in the 2011 draft (according to some because they had already stupidly committed to trading for Kolb). I cant give them a pat on the back and a "good effort", for making the worst of a bad situation... that they put themselves in.

terrible analogy. So they should have went DA/skelton/hall again?

If you think he is the top QB and you need a qb you sign a qb. Armchair QB captain hindsight is ********.

the whole comment of how they would have drafted without kolb and etc is a joke too.

You dont know what they would have done with anything. They thought he was gonna be awesome and snatched him up because they thought so. they thought wrong.

Its pretty simple.

They didnt eat soap because there was no other food.

and yes, if you are dying and locked in a bathroom you will eat soap after a few days.

 

[kerouac9]

I'm beginning to think Whiz has no idea how to analyze QB prospects accurately -- the writing was all over every other wall in the NFL that Kolb wasn't worth anything relatively close to what the Cards gave up, as well as the contract he was given. The cards bid against themselves in the deal (no one else was pursuing Kolb), they gave him a huge contract for no apparent reason, handed over the starting position with no try-out, and now no one will be held accountable because they can use the excuse that "at least we tried". Whisenhunt hand-picked Kolb, and he ended up being one of the worst starting QB's in the NFL -- not the type of talent evaluation you want out of a season HC...

Two items I think of fair comment on this:

1) It's not perfectly clear that Whis hand-picked Kolb. I'm not saying that he didn't; I'm saying that it's possible that Graves, Keim, and/or Mike Bidwill fell in love with the guy and Whis figured that he could do something with him.

2) Hand picked him from options of what? Alex Smith (who was being actively courted by his own head coach), Kyle Orton, Carson Palmer's retirement, and then three or four possible rookies in Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick, or Ryan Mallett? Would any of those young guys have helped us win more games than Patrick Peterson did?

The Cards completely dug their own grave on the 2011 quarterback situation. The upside for the way the Cards' front office does business is that it's difficult to hang any albatross around one specific person's neck.

 

[Phrazbit]

terrible analogy. So they should have went DA/skelton/hall again?

If you think he is the top QB and you need a qb you sign a qb. Armchair QB captain hindsight is ********.

the whole comment of how they would have drafted without kolb and etc is a joke too.

You dont know what they would have done with anything. They thought he was gonna be awesome and snatched him up because they thought so. they thought wrong.

Its pretty simple.

They didnt eat soap because there was no other food.

and yes, if you are dying and locked in a bathroom you will eat soap after a few days.

No, they should have addressed the problem earlier. They put themselves in an awful spot by ignoring the QB position. Derek Anderson? Max Hall? A 5th round pick? Not taking a QB in the 2011 draft, especially when Mallet slipped to the 3rd was inexcusable.

This isnt hindsight, they had absolutely backed themselves into a corner coming out of the lock out and everyone knew it. And even then Kolb was not necessarily the best, or even a good, solution. If the "top QB on the market" (which was debatable even at the time), does not qualify as a top... 15... 20 QB in the league then should you pretend he is? NO! They went and got a mediocre QB (at best) and paid him like a pro-bowler, gave up a lot of good trade value.

It was the worst thing they could have done. They went and made a big time commitment to a bad player. After this year, when he gets inevitably cut, we will be entering our 4th off season since Warner retired and they still will have not brought in a realistic solution at QB. Its pathetic. I dont care if they "tired" and selected the best turd on a platter at one point.

 

[Reddog]

As do I, but they should have done their homework better. If fans could see all the flags with Kolb surely the professionals should have seen them.

I see the issue going back to missing so badly on Lienart. If KW recognized he wasn't the guy he should have not waited so long to jettison him. He should have made contingency plans with a developmental guy. As a result of this and Warner retiring we were in a bind which enabled Kolb to get a Kings ransom from the Cards. Kolb should have been had for Matt Flynn money and we wouldn't feel beholden to keep giving him chances. Th 7M bonus just further exasperated things. Good money after bad. We need to spend our 2013 1st round pick on a QB if one is available regardless of how Skelton does.