IF the "best case" happened

[slinslin]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
And then you are thinking that it would be nicer if they took Howard Eiseley as well?

Joe Mama [/B]

Of course it would be nicer. That is why I said in the best case they would take Eisley as well.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Originally posted by SirChaz
Thanks for the details.

Seems to me they spent 10 years building that team. Our best player (potentialy) is a second year player right now.

No problem...I followed the Pistons during those years.... It was interesting to see how everything unfolded.... They advanced into the play-offs in '84 and lost to the Knicks in the 1st round (if I remember the details correctly)...During that period, besides
Isiah, Laimbeer, and Johnson they had Kelly Tripucka, Kent Benson, John Long, and a few other core veterans on their squad, but they couldnt get over the hump....

As I mentioned earlier, they draft Dumars, Rodman, and Salley circa '85 and '86 and within a year theyre in the Eastern Conference Finals, but lose both times to the Celtics (including that infamous inbounds Isiah pass that got intercepted by Bird as time was winding down).....

The Pistons then finally got past the Celtics in '88 (I despise the Celtics, but thought it was very classy of McHale to shake hands and offer his congrats to the Pistons after the deciding game and wishing them the best against the Lakers)....The Pistons should have won the Finals in '88, but Rodman had a meltdown in Game 6 and then the Pistons ultimately lost Game 7.... But once they added Aguirre, that made a tremendous difference... Of course we all know how they won back-2-back against the Lakers and Trailblazers respectively...

Similar to how it took awhile for the Pistons to shake off the Celtics, it took the Bulls several years to pass the Pistons and the rest is obviously history....

I was posting the following in response to ASUCHRIS's message, but accidentally closed the window...

The reason why the NBA has gone downhill is the salary/luxury cap BS...

Has it really enabed true competitive balance? No...Since the same teams keep on winning w/out any subtractions in the process..... That afforded teams like the Pistons, Bulls, and others to remain patient in establishing a nucleus and gradually building on it.....

What I posed on another thread is something that should be pondered further....

Was last season a complete aberration? Did they peak too soon?

They have a potential of a decent nucleus with Marion, Amare, JJ, Lampe, Barbosa, Zarko, and Vujanik....

Where does CJ and Jake factor in? As I've been saying for awhile now, I wouldnt be shocked if Jake is traded before the start of next season (packaged with someone) since he does have some redeemable value and probably wont get much playing time next season.....

CJ will always be just a "role-player" who shouldnt have been selected in the middle 1st round.... With Vujanic on the squad next season (and perhaps a FA guard), how will CJ get any
minutes?

And back to the Pistons again....Isiah was the only true "super-star" player they had....You need complimentary players who could give a team depth.... So, yes...acquiring just Kobe (as we discussed on another thread) wouldnt automatically put them into play-off contention.... I'd rather sign 2-3 mid-tier level players than vest so much into just one elite caliber player..

The Suns just need a direction and must settle on it.. I think last year really delusioned everyone.....

 

[SweetD]

IMO the NBA has also dropped baddly becouse of High School kids and early intries into the draft. Many teams just can't pass on a what if. This leads to an underdevloped player that will not hit his peak until 3-4 years right when his contract is up. Thus you have to pay a max contract to that player or close to it and pass on a player that will help now and take your team into the playoffs/Championship and make the team more money... eeeerrrrrr I need a few days to get over all this mess..

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by SweetD
Spurs all their picks all their Vets. only one or two role players.

Well, when we are able to draft a guy as good as Tim Duncan, then maybe our chances will be better. Until then, it ain't going to happen.

 

[JS22]

screw needing time. its time to make that one big free agent splash, or trade to get us back to the barkley years.

The suns are basically one dominate player away from being a championship contender. I would LOVE to see them go after Tmac in a sign and trade with Marion.

Barbosa
T-Mac
Johnson
Amare
Mcdyess (yes, mcdyess)

Seriously, throw in the #1-5 draft pick and this team will be very, very solid.

I can keep dreaming now..

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Originally posted by SweetD
IMO the NBA has also dropped baddly becouse of High School kids and early intries into the draft. Many teams just can't pass on a what if. This leads to an underdevloped player that will not hit his peak until 3-4 years right when his contract is up. Thus you have to pay a max contract to that player or close to it and pass on a player that will help now and take your team into the playoffs/Championship and make the team more money... eeeerrrrrr I need a few days to get over all this mess..

That's why the NBA has been focusing on the European players...
They seem to be more fundamentally sound compared to the players coming out of the Highschool and College ranks in the USA.....

 

[SweetD]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Well, when we are able to draft a guy as good as Tim Duncan, then maybe our chances will be better. Until then, it ain't going to happen.

Ya but I answered your question.... All I have hope for is that there is one guy in the draft next year that will be the superstar we need. I mean it has been many times PHX has had a lotto pick.... Marion and Amare have turned out very well for us. Every year there is a star and next will not be different.

 

[Chaz]

Originally posted by WastedFate
screw needing time. its time to make that one big free agent splash, or trade to get us back to the barkley years.

Seriously?


The Suns were in the Western Conference Finals the season before they got Barkley.

This team is just a bit short of that level right now.

 

[Chaplin]

And could those Detroit Pistons win an NBA Championship in today's NBA?

No way in hell. Not a chance.

 

[SweetD]

Originally posted by SirChaz
Seriously?


The Suns were in the Western Conference Finals the season before they got Barkley.

This team is just a bit short of that level right now.

I wouldn't go that far we had vets and role players. Right now we have talent that is not ready. IMO we are were the Clips were a last year. A lot of undeveloped tallent.

 

[SweetD]

Originally posted by Chaplin
And could those Detroit Pistons win an NBA Championship in today's NBA?

No way in hell. Not a chance.

Could these kids today win a championship then HELL NO! Players knew their roles and played as a team. Today it is me me me only.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by SirChaz
Seriously?


The Suns were in the Western Conference Finals the season before they got Barkley.

This team is just a bit short of that level right now.

I just can't believe you're satisfied. Either you have too much trust in the Colangelo's or you don't know too much about today's NBA...

My guess is that you trust the C's too much.

 

[SweetD]

Originally posted by KingLouieLouie
That's why the NBA has been focusing on the European players...
They seem to be more fundamentally sound compared to the players coming out of the Highschool and College ranks in the USA.....

I think that wail is getting dry, know you are picking players that don't have everything it takes to be the best players. The Dirks, Yao's, Paja's, are running out.

 

[Chaz]

Originally posted by SirChaz
Seriously?


The Suns were in the Western Conference Finals the season before they got Barkley.

This team is just a bit short of that level right now.

Whoops


The Suns went to the WC Semifinals not the WC finals in 91-92.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Originally posted by Chaplin
And could those Detroit Pistons win an NBA Championship in today's NBA?

No way in hell. Not a chance.

You can't really compare teams from different eras.... The Pistons were actually one of the 1st defense oriented teams to win the finals...If memory serves me correctly, they didnt have one single player average 20 ppg during their 2 title runs.....

Prior to that, teams were averaging about 110 ppg quite easily without so many pathetic rules that have gone into effect since then that has detracted away from the game considerably.....

 

[SweetD]

I hate zone Def.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by KingLouieLouie
You can't really compare teams from different eras.... The Pistons were actually one of the 1st defense oriented teams to win the finals...If memory serves me correctly, they didnt have one single player average 20 ppg during their 2 title runs.....

Prior to that, teams were averaging about 110 ppg quite easily without so many pathetic rules that have gone into effect since then that has detracted away from the game considerably.....

That's not the point though. The point is whether or not a team today can win the championship with the same players for many years. I submit that it isn't possible in today's NBA, especially with the players we have now.

 

[Chaz]

Originally posted by Chaplin
I just can't believe you're satisfied. Either you have too much trust in the Colangelo's or you don't know too much about today's NBA...

My guess is that you trust the C's too much.

I think this core has a good chance to be very, very good. Sure a championship is the ultimate goal but they do run a business down there and as a fan all I really expect is to be entertained along with some reasonable expectation they are trying to improve the team

I don't know that I trust the C's but in reality it is their team. I don't know what predictions of doom will do to help me feel better about the team or help the team to improve.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by SirChaz
I think this core has a good chance to be very, very good. Sure a championship is the ultimate goal but they do run a business down there and as a fan all I really expect is to be entertained along with some reasonable expectation they are trying to improve the team

I don't know that I trust the C's but in reality it is their team. I don't know what predictions of doom will do to help me feel better about the team or help the team to improve.

I guess it's about you seeing something (I can't figure out what) in this group of players that would make them "very, very good". They have a chance to be decent, and in no way doormats of the league, but there is no way on God's green earth that this team wins a championship--at any time.

 

[SirStefan32]

Re: Re: Re: IF the "best case" happened

Originally posted by George O'Brien

Butler's stats this season are: 7.4 ppg 33.8% from the field, 9.5% beyond the arc, 3.8 rpg, 1.7 assists per game in 28.9 minutes. Butler was the #10 pick in the draft.

If it is premature to decide that Butler is bust, then it iis unreasonable to dismiss Jacobsen just yet.

Hold on now. Butler is coming back from a major surgery. Give guy a break. Jacobsen will never be 40% of what Butler is.

 

[Chaz]

Originally posted by Chaplin
I guess it's about you seeing something (I can't figure out what) in this group of players that would make them "very, very good". They have a chance to be decent, and in no way doormats of the league, but there is no way on God's green earth that this team wins a championship--at any time.

This twelve players no. The top 3 or 4 with some good trades / drafts along the way? Absolutely I think they could compete for a title down the road.

The problem is Amare should be a College sophmore right now and JJ should be a rookie.

You were talking about the luck of drafting Duncan. Duncan was polished as a rookie because he stayed in school for 4 years and was a mature player.

I think Amare can be as good as Duncan at somepoint in the future. He has the talent but it will not happen overnight or without a lot of work.

It is like seeing the sclupture in the brick of unfinished marble I guess.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Originally posted by Chaplin
That's not the point though. The point is whether or not a team today can win the championship with the same players for many years. I submit that it isn't possible in today's NBA, especially with the players we have now.

Okay, it appears I took your post prior to thist last one out of context, however, the point I made regarding how the salary/luxury caps have affected the game actually supports your assertion....

Obviously, a team that perennially finishes in the lottery usually selects top-notch talent in the draft.... During that span they assemble some form of nucleus for albeit a brief period, but once their rookie contracts expire the franchises cant afford to keep many or if at all those players because of the salary cap ramifications or the fact that they're a small-market team to begin with, so they're revert back to the same cycle for what is like an eternity.....

That's the case in every sport expect baseball that doesnt have a salary cap, but there isnt truly a full competitive balance which is another argument altogether....

 

[slinslin]

Did anyone see the similiar thread "Dream Offseason" on phxsuns.net?

Man Steve Nash would be horrible just horrible.

How could anyone want to sign Steve Nash over a young exciting top5 player in this league, one of the biggest draws and allstar starter every year?

I have come to the conclusion that the Suns don't need Okafor at all especially if it means trading a little down and getting capspace for Eisley we could sign Okur and draft Josh Smith because he would be insurance at the 2/3 in case Kobe and JJ don't work out at the 2/3.

There is no other way we can get rid off Eisley. Jahidi will most likely go to the Bobcats along with Clevelands pick.

So no way any of this could happen.

I also figure that if we get Kobe it would most likely be a sign and trade for Marion.

The key to any dream offseason for the Suns has to include getting Kobe especially in a sign and trade for Marion so we can still pursue other FAs and getting lucky in the lottery.

Those are the keys to the suns offseason.

 

[Chaplin]

Yeah, it was posted by the guy that sold me my truck!!

 

[George O'Brien]

The Nash to Phoenix rumor must be coming from his agent. I have yet to hear a Suns fan endorse it.