IF the Cardinals go OL in the 1st Rd.

If Cardinals would go OL who would you prefer?


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Chopper0080

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LOL How about the Arizona Cardinals? Our run defenses used to get absolutely shredded when we didn't have a good NT. Since you seem to think good NTs are a dime a dozen, why didn't we get one back then?

*Mike Drop*

We have ran the 3-4 for the past 6 seasons, and 5 of those with Dan Williams on the roster. We have been in the top 10 in rush yards allowed per game once (2013). Obviously he did not make the impact you believe he did. Drop that mic.

Coincidentally, the one year the Cardinals had two athletic and competent ILBs was also the year they ranked #1 vs the run. If you are looking for a correlation, there is a slight one there.

2012 with Dan Williams, Daryl Washington, Paris Lenon - not top 10.
2013 with Dan Williams, Daryl Washington, Karlos Dansby - top 10.
2014 with Dan Williams, Larry Foote, Kevin MInter/S - not top 10.
 
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kerouac9

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I read it. Start and play well for a number of years = instantly makes the team better. Not sure how you don't see that. A solid contributor instantly makes the team better. Doesnt' mean they are a huge impact player or a pro-bowler, but when you draft a player and that player is a starter and plays well, you see the results...well, instantly.

It didn't say "rotational player that will split snaps for a career but might blossom into a starter down the road."

And to ensure your semantics argument is fundamentally sound, you need to be using my words, not yours.

Sounds pretty much exactly how Buc was described by the article..oh, and by you as well.

If you are going to argue against my position, you should not try to restate it in a manner that fits your own definition.

I'm not sure how contributing to depth at 4 positions isn't "instantly making the team better" either. Bucannon was a depth player from Day 1; if Washington hadn't smoked some grass, it's doubtful Bucannon would've seen the field much at all. I don't think that playing because you're less bad than other options is that big a deal. :shrug:

I didn't want to start a firestorm on this thread, but I'll say it now: I don't mind drafting a developmental OT because I think it's very likely Cooper isn't good at football (anymore). The fact of the matter is that this isn't a 5-11 team desperate for talent anymore. This is an 11-5 team looking to begin making waves in the postseason.

There aren't a lot of guys available in the last 10 picks in the first round who are immediately going to upgrade an 11-win team. So you're better off taking a player who's going to improve your team beyond Year One. The only argument for a guy who will immediately step in and make waves is Erving (whom I like more than the likely tackles available) or Gurley (whom I don't because I think that RBs in the first and second round are terrible value).

You're moving the goal posts here. This was my point of view on a potential OL pick:

A likely scenario is that he competes in camp, plays with the second team for the first quarter to half of the season, then comes in as an injury substitute at four OL positions during the year. Not a bad result for a late-first round pick.​

If you're upgrading from Bradley Sowell or Earl Watford potentially starting to a guy you had a first-round grade on, I think that's pretty impactful. Particularly if he's going to protect you from having to depend on Jonathan Cooper learning how to walk and chew gum at the same time.
 

kerouac9

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We have ran the 3-4 for the past 6 seasons, and 5 of those with Dan Williams on the roster. We have been in the top 10 in rush yards allowed per game once (2013). Obviously he did not make the impact you believe he did. Drop that mic.

Coincidentally, the one year the Cardinals had two athletic and competent ILBs was also the year they ranked #1 vs the run. If you are looking for a correlation, there is a slight one there.

2012 with Dan Williams, Daryl Washington, Paris Lenon - not top 10.
2013 with Dan Williams, Daryl Washington, Karlos Dansby - top 10.
2014 with Dan Williams, Larry Foote, Kevin MInter/S - not top 10.

That's not fair. We've been a 3-4 defense for at least 8 seasons--starting when Whisenhunt came into town in 2007. And our 2014 run defense was top 10 by DVOA. I think that Williams was injured in 2012.

On the Dan Williams question, Bill Barnwell and Robert Mays were talking about Williams on the Grantland NFL Podcast last week. Mays is particularly friendly to/with Steve Keim, and he made the observation that Williams has been playing next two some very good DTs during his time here, including a top 5 3-4 end in Calais Campbell.

Mays statement was that it was pretty easy to look like a foundational run stopper when you're playing next to those tackles. We'll see when Williams is playing for Oakland next year.
 

Chopper0080

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That's not fair. We've been a 3-4 defense for at least 8 seasons--starting when Whisenhunt came into town in 2007. And our 2014 run defense was top 10 by DVOA. I think that Williams was injured in 2012.

On the Dan Williams question, Bill Barnwell and Robert Mays were talking about Williams on the Grantland NFL Podcast last week. Mays is particularly friendly to/with Steve Keim, and he made the observation that Williams has been playing next two some very good DTs during his time here, including a top 5 3-4 end in Calais Campbell.

Mays statement was that it was pretty easy to look like a foundational run stopper when you're playing next to those tackles. We'll see when Williams is playing for Oakland next year.

I agree that there is more to the story, but that is not the arguement that is being made. The argument was stated "How about the Arizona Cardinals? Our run defenses used to get absolutely shredded when we didn't have a good NT. Since you seem to think good NTs are a dime a dozen, why didn't we get one back then?" My point was that our run defense has been shredded WITH Dan Williams in the lineup, and it has more to do than just one guy. Also, when Whis was hired, we ran a hybrid base defense under Penderghast, and didn't convert to a traditional 3-4 base defense until Bill Davis took over as DC (2009).
 

Cardiac

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I like Dumpster Dan but he ain't the next coming of Wilfork.

We have almost zero talent depth at OT, Sowell is a gamer but has limited talent. Getting insurance/depth at OT is very important IMO. After last years injury debacle to many positions I would like to avoid an OT shortage. Palmer can take us to the promised land if he isn't crushed constantly on injured.

Deep draft for RB's so yes, let's wait until rd3 to get one.

Feed the trenches, feed them!
 
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