If the draft was today, I would still take Fitzgerald over Roy Williams.

[Russ Smith]

this is all nonsense. First - you bag on McCown on EVERY other thread but here it's not really that much of a factor why Fitz's number aren't better? That's a joke first off.

And second - let's take a look at Mr. Williams number shall we - His first game - he had 69 yards - boy - he sure won that game for the Lions. His second game - he had 73 yards and 2 TDs - okay - he definitely had an impact there. His third game - I don't really remember him making all that much of an impact as the Lions got down 21-0 from the start and then had to throw the ball all day long. I mean 135 yrds and two TDs is nice - if only it didn't come in a game where the Lions LOST 30-13. Then he sure did help them win their next game with a sterling 3 for 18 performance that put him on the sidelines with an injury (something that nagged him during college). And then yesterday - he had 67 yards and a Touchdown.

Averaging 70 yards ain't all that K9. The guy is a stud without a doubt - but his YPC is only 1 yard higher than Fitz and his yards per game are only 10 yards more than Fitz. This is all with a better QB. Up till this point - Josh has been one of the WORST QBS IN FOOTBALL and you can't just take that out of the equation.

.

In the first half of that Eagles game Roy had 6 catches for 78 yards and a TD, it wasn't his fault they fell behind, he was the only reason it wasn't worse, ask the Eagles players if they were impressed, they were comparing him to Terrell Owens. He had only 3 catches in the 2nd half of that game his stats weren't the result of stat padding, the Eagles were doubling him the whole 2nd half he just made that highlight reel catch bounce off or break tackles for a TD play that got everyone's attention.

I do find it funny you act like 69 yards is a non factor, knowing Fitz is averaging 61.83 yards per game himself. And Roy didn't start that first game was the #3WR until the injury to Rogers. Just as Clayton went from #4WR to #1 due to injuries and great play.

They're both going to be very good players.

 

[Cheesebeef]

In the first half of that Eagles game Roy had 6 catches for 78 yards and a TD, it wasn't his fault they fell behind, he was the only reason it wasn't worse, ask the Eagles players if they were impressed, they were comparing him to Terrell Owens. He had only 3 catches in the 2nd half of that game his stats weren't the result of stat padding, the Eagles were doubling him the whole 2nd half he just made that highlight reel catch bounce off or break tackles for a TD play that got everyone's attention.

I do find it funny you act like 69 yards is a non factor, knowing Fitz is averaging 61.83 yards per game himself. And Roy didn't start that first game was the #3WR until the injury to Rogers. Just as Clayton went from #4WR to #1 due to injuries and great play.

They're both going to be very good players.

I'm not saying RW is a non-factor - but K9 makes it out like he's the second coming of Jesus - I was merely pointing out Roy's yards [er game BECAUSE they were similar to Fitz's. They're both studs - plain and simple - and to argue otherwise or even come clsoe and say that Fitz hasn't separated himself from the like of Nate Freaking Poole is just flat out stupid - and I don't care if K9 said he took it back - because he's said it over and over again and I think it just shows to reek of his bias against him.

I also seem to remember K9 saying how great Andre Johnsons was last year and how he's gonna be better than Q and lah-dee-dah - well - that doesn't entirely support that theory of yours K9 considering everyone pretty much universally agreed that Q was THE stud rookie WR last year heads and shoulders above everyone else - but I guess you'll use your own theories to your own purposes.

I'm with ya on a lot of thing K9 - but I think your argument here is an absolute joke.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm not saying RW is a non-factor - but K9 makes it out like he's the second coming of Jesus - I was merely pointing out Roy's yards [er game BECAUSE they were similar to Fitz's. They're both studs - plain and simple - and to argue otherwise or even come clsoe and say that Fitz hasn't separated himself from the like of Nate Freaking Poole is just flat out stupid - and I don't care if K9 said he took it back - because he's said it over and over again and I think it just shows to reek of his bias against him.

I also seem to remember K9 saying how great Andre Johnsons was last year and how he's gonna be better than Q and lah-dee-dah - well - that doesn't entirely support that theory of yours K9 considering everyone pretty much universally agreed that Q was THE stud rookie WR last year heads and shoulders above everyone else - but I guess you'll use your own theories to your own purposes.

I'm with ya on a lot of thing K9 - but I think your argument here is an absolute joke.

Understood, the Poole stuff is out of line, Fitz is clearly a much better player. But I do think when you look at what say Clayton has done with 3 different QB's and completely thrown into the first after spending camp playing a different spot in the offense than he is now, it's hard to argue what Fitz is doing is "special." If Fitz gets 134 yards next week he'll tie Clayton's performance after 7 games, and Clayton has only started 4 games. I think that's the comparison everyone should be making with Fitz, the 3rd pick in the draft vs Clayton and the production is virtually identical, with a slight edge for Clayton when you factor in playing time.

The thing with Roy Williams is Detroit is not exactly a media darling either but everyone is on his bandwagon because he just looks SO good. The argument about Atlanta's record with and without Vick, is applicable to Detroit and RW, when he didn't play they couldn't move the ball a lick, against a terrible defense, now they light up the Giants.

Fitz will get better, he already is, but he's never going to run like Roy Williams can before or after the catch. I don't dislike Fitz but I do disagree with Holian that if the draft was done over we should still take Fitz. Frankly I think we should take Ben because if the draft was today, QUan would be coming back this weekend.

 

[kerouac9]

I also seem to remember K9 saying how great Andre Johnsons was last year and how he's gonna be better than Q and lah-dee-dah - well - that doesn't entirely support that theory of yours K9 considering everyone pretty much universally agreed that Q was THE stud rookie WR last year heads and shoulders above everyone else - but I guess you'll use your own theories to your own purposes.

I'm with ya on a lot of thing K9 - but I think your argument here is an absolute joke.

Quan was the stud rookie WR last year. That's why he won OROY. My arguement was that Andre Johnson has the greater long-term upside as a Randy Moss-type player that's a big threat before the catch, and a player that's going to keep DCs up at night. The result (though Quan isn't playing): Andre Johnson is #4 in the league in recieving, #1 in the AFC. He has the largest YPC average (17.9) among all players with at least 30 catches, and 2nd among all players with at least 20. His performance is the primary reason that David Carr is the fifth-rated passer in the NFL.

I don't know why you don't like looking at the FootballOutsider's analysis, or just ignore them because they hurt your argument, but they bear me out on Anquan. Again, he had a great, great season playing for a bad, bad team, but he had a 15th-ranked DPAR (which is really good, but not elite) and a surprising 37th-ranked DVOA, only 3.7% better than a replacement-level player at the position (Andre Johnson was 30 and 32, BTW). My point was that for all the numbers Anquan put up, a lot of them were junk, and Anquan didn't do much of anything in the games that the Cardinals won. The numbers bear that out.

Just put it out there, Cheese: Would you really rather have Fitz than Roy Williams right now? Really? I think that Fitz is going to be fine, I think that he'll be a good player, but I think we missed in choosing him instead of Roy, and maybe him instead of Ben R., as well. Hopefully, this discussion in three years will be like parsing who was better between Shaun Alexander and Jamal Lewis. That's kind of what I expect, but to say that Roy Williams isn't doing anything that Larry Fitzgerald isn't just strikes me as impossibly homerish.

 

[chickenhead]

I didn't know that receivers' total careers can be quantified by week 8 of their rookie year. Does that mean the Eagles won the Super Bowl yesterday, too? Lots of time left - I'm happy Fitzgerald is on our team, and I have total respect for what RW is doing, too. Keep in mind that the Cards also have a horrible draft history, and frankly I'm glad they didn't trade down for players that make no impact.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I am satisfied with Fitzgerald, which is more than I can say with nearly all of our first round draft picks over the past decade. Cheese, just ignore Kerouac. His preference for flashy players completely clouds his judgment to the point there it is nonsensical to argue with him. This is the same guy who said he would not draft Cris Carter, a first ballot Hall of Famer, #3 overall in the draft because he has a limited upside and only averages 12 YPC.

Kerouac is often right in some regards, such as the mediocrity of Marcel Shipp and the awfulness of McCown, but he's way off in this case. Flashiness doesn't crap to any NFL GM or coach, production does and the numbers between Legend and Fitzgerald speak for themselves: that we'd be happy with either of them.

 

[kerouac9]

This is the same guy who said he would not draft Cris Carter, a first ballot Hall of Famer, #3 overall in the draft because he has a limited upside and only averages 12 YPC.

Was Cris Carter undrafted? I was trying to look up where he was taken, but his name wasn't on drafthistory.com. It doesn't look like anyone else wanted to draft Cris Cater at #3 overall, either.

 

[Southpaw]

Agreed, your position is ridiculous K9. I wasn't too high on Fitz, but it is quite clear; any time the team gets around the 20, and there is the possibility that Fitz has one on one coverage, throw the damn ball up, and let him catch it. The scary thing is, with Anquan, you'll have two guys who are absolute ballhawks on the same offense, I can't wait!

and if Charles Rogers ever gets healthy and back on the field, how scarey will that duo be? Fitz is doing it without Boldin, while Roy Williams is doing it without Charles Rogers.

I'll take two burners with great hands over 2 posession receivers with great hands.

 

[kerouac9]

I'll take two burners with great hands over 2 posession receivers with great hands.

And this is my point.

 

[Southpaw]

Was Cris Carter undrafted? I was trying to look up where he was taken, but his name wasn't on drafthistory.com. It doesn't look like anyone else wanted to draft Cris Cater at #3 overall, either.

April 5: In the 1987 supplemental draft, the Eagles spent their only pick on wide receiver Cris Carter.

The Eagles took Ohio State WR Cris Carter in the fourth round of the '87 Supplemental Draft.

 

[kerouac9]

April 5: In the 1987 supplemental draft, the Eagles spent their only pick on wide receiver Cris Carter.

The Eagles took Ohio State WR Cris Carter in the fourth round of the '87 Supplemental Draft.

Thank you.

 

[Skkorpion]

Roy Williams is fabulous. So is Fitzgerald. They are unique in their own ways. I suggest we wait 8 years or so to judge their relative merits and just enjoy their play.

Interesting that both have been hampered by ankle sprains and lost their more experienced complimentary receivers.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

and if Charles Rogers ever gets healthy and back on the field, how scarey will that duo be? Fitz is doing it without Boldin, while Roy Williams is doing it without Charles Rogers.

I'll take two burners with great hands over 2 posession receivers with great hands.

That's a huge if......Rogers has played 5 games in the last two games, and even worse, has had the same injury twice. He is a season ending injury waiting to happen.

 

[Joe Moore]

Well we meet them this year. So will get to see RW up close and personal. I think right now RW has more flare and his team relies on him more. But I am very happy to have Fitz. Once he and a Qb (Not sure about McCown) start hooking up. Watch out. P.S. are the lions trying to run as much as we are.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Well we meet them this year. So will get to see RW up close and personal. I think right now RW has more flare and his team relies on him more. But I am very happy to have Fitz. Once he and a Qb (Not sure about McCown) start hooking up. Watch out. P.S. are the lions trying to run as much as we are.

Man, I can't believe we play detroit again there.....strange to have that with a non-division opponent two years in a row....

 

[BACH]

Man, I can't believe we play detroit again there.....strange to have that with a non-division opponent two years in a row....

Two games every year are based on on last year's record. We play Detroit because both teams have been bad two years in a row.

 

[kerouac9]

I also seem to remember K9 saying how great Andre Johnsons was last year and how he's gonna be better than Q and lah-dee-dah - well - that doesn't entirely support that theory of yours K9 considering everyone pretty much universally agreed that Q was THE stud rookie WR last year heads and shoulders above everyone else - but I guess you'll use your own theories to your own purposes.

I guess that I'm not the only one that thinks that Andre Johnson is a special player. Randy Mueller has him as one of the 15 Scariest Talents in the NFL:

15. Andre Johnson: His being on this list may surprise some but the guys who try and cover him. He's already one of the most feared in the league. He has great speed and athleticism to outrun any coverage or any ball thrown his way. His size makes him a combination T.O./Moss in the making. Now that's scary.

 

[Russ Smith]

Well we meet them this year. So will get to see RW up close and personal. I think right now RW has more flare and his team relies on him more. But I am very happy to have Fitz. Once he and a Qb (Not sure about McCown) start hooking up. Watch out. P.S. are the lions trying to run as much as we are.

I was watching ESPN last night and the one guy asked the other "which Detroit teams shows up the one last week that was so good, or the one the week before?" The reply "is Roy Williams playing? "

he's that good already, he's their only consistent threat.

It is weird we play them again, and there again. Their defense seems vastly improved too.

 

[Southpaw]

I'm a HOMER

 

[Pariah]

If the draft were today, I'd take Ben Rothlisberger (still). If he was gone, I'd take Roy Williams.

EDIT: Which doesn't mean I'm unhappy with Fitz, I just think these guys are and are going to be better.

 

[red desert]

Fitz sure doesn't look as good as Williams catching passes from Harrington....

Oh wait....Fitz has MCCOWN at Qb. This isn't ceteris paribus here. If I had to choose between Harrington (and his better offensive line as well) or McCown, I take Harrington ANY DAY of the week...

Fitz hasn't had equal Qb play. McCown is the the achilles heel of this offense right now (along with lack of speed at RB)...

Good point.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Honestyly - I'm just happpy it looks like the third pick int he draft ISN'T GOING TO BE A BUST - To be honest - I do think Roy Williams is awesome and a complete stud and I do like that his speed is better than Fitz's, but I have zero problem watching Fitz and I believe he is going to be awesome as well - seeing as our track record has us consistently botching top five picks - it seems like people are just quibbling - to quibble.

 

[Russ Smith]

Good point.

True but look at Joey's numbers and really the only reason they're higher is Roy Williams. 5 of his 10 td's went to Roy, take Roy out of the equation and his numbers are essentially the same as Fitz. If Roy had Fitz' stats Harrington would have 7 TD's and 3 picks and less yards passing than Josh has.

Not saying he's not better, he is, there's a reason he was drafted first and he's played a LOT more, but Harrington isn't making Roy look good, Roy is making Harrington look good.

 

[red desert]

Now, with the Q coming back, I think we're going to see a lot more downfield stuff opening up, and it's going to be Josh's final exam in this offense.

I like that.

 

[Russ Smith]

Honestyly - I'm just happpy it looks like the third pick int he draft ISN'T GOING TO BE A BUST - To be honest - I do think Roy Williams is awesome and a complete stud and I do like that his speed is better than Fitz's, but I have zero problem watching Fitz and I believe he is going to be awesome as well - seeing as our track record has us consistently botching top five picks - it seems like people are just quibbling - to quibble.

Yes even I agree, Fitz wasn't my guy, but my guy is suspended this week for being stupid and getting a DUI so I am quite happy with Fitz.