If this is the roster where do we stand?

[Peter Sheldon]

I don't think so.

When a person or team doesn't realize they can be better, that's when the problems begin.

Perhaps the Suns peaked too soon and forgot the hard work that got them there?

For sure: the Suns peaked too soon and forgot the hard work that got them there.

It's why I am hoping for peaking at the end of the season rather than beginning and middle. And for God's sake try new ideas occasionally that you can utilize later in Playoffs if leading the entire league by 8 games!

 

[JCSunsfan]

If Rajon Rondo has any gas left in the tank, he might be the type of player the Suns need for point guard depth.

OK. I could see that. If there is anything there.

 

[95pro]

OK. I could see that. If there is anything there.

There hasn't been anything there for the last 2 years. We made him unplayable during our Lakers series.

 

[Phrazbit]

Unless Cam Payne ends up in a trade I wouldn't expect anyone of much note to get signed as a point guard.

Any established player isn't going to sign on to play a few scraps of minutes here and there.

 

[Bobster]

That's true. Nobody can say the 1992-93 Suns got anything useful out of Jerrod Mustaf (my dad and I used to laugh at his ineptitude) or Negele Knight or Tim Kempton. Knight may have played a few minutes.

It is obviously much more important to have disciplined and experienced professionals. It amazes me how playoff teams can get away with starting deep bench players and even minor leaguers--if the team is good enough to compensate. Do you remember how many times the Rockets, who were at times mocked for lack of depth, tormented the Suns with obscure minor leaguers who had only one skill (often streak shooting)? And the Bulls dynasties used middling players no casual fan today would have heard of, because they were disciplined enough to get away with it. And the 2010 Suns--my jaw dropped. Starting Jarron Collins in the playoffs was like starting four-and-a-half players.

But they did out of Danny Ainge, Tom Chambers, Cedric Ceballos, Oliver Miller and Frank Johnson

 

[Raindog]

But is Monty good at evaluating talent? Doesn’t seem so

But he is good at evaluating son-in-laws.

 

[Hoop Head]

If Rajon Rondo has any gas left in the tank, he might be the type of player the Suns need for point guard depth.

Rondo and Paul hate each other. No chance Rondo backs up Paul. I wouldn't want the player Rondo has been the last few years either. He's done.

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

1. Warriors

2. Suns

3-4 Mavs or Grizz, either order

 

[95pro]

Teams better than us:
Warriors

Teams even with us:
Grizzlies (JJJ surgery???)
Mavs (Luka reaching new status)
Clippers (pg13 was never going to be enough, but Kawhi will make them better, plus they added another all-star, well coached)

Teams slightly below us:
Pelicans (they take a jump as the playoffs only hardened them, they play well together, well coached)
Nuggets
Timberwolves

Play-in worthy:
Blazers
Kings
Teams not close, in my order:
Jazz
Spurs
Rockets
Thunder

Wildcards: (hard to place)
Lakers (reports are AD is working hard this off season)

 

[Hoop Head]

I'd swap the Clippers and Nuggets. Jamal Murray is set to start the season and he'll help take a ton of pressure off of Jokic.

With the Clippers, on paper they should be contenders but I'll need to see them healthy to believe it. PG-13 and Kawhi work together but I don't think Wall makes them better. He takes the ball out of their hands and that won't help them much. I think Reggie Jackson was fine as their PG. Wall and Jackson are too small to play together for significant stretches.

I can't see their primary players staying healthy either. They miss a ton of games between injuries and load management and that won't help them gain home court for the playoffs, but I do expect they'll make the playoffs.

 

[95pro]

I'd swap the Clippers and Nuggets. Jamal Murray is set to start the season and he'll help take a ton of pressure off of Jokic.

With the Clippers, on paper they should be contenders but I'll need to see them healthy to believe it. PG-13 and Kawhi work together but I don't think Wall makes them better. He takes the ball out of their hands and that won't help them much. I think Reggie Jackson was fine as their PG. Wall and Jackson are too small to play together for significant stretches.

I can't see their primary players staying healthy either. They miss a ton of games between injuries and load management and that won't help them gain home court for the playoffs, but I do expect they'll make the playoffs.

Kawhi impact is greater than Murrays IMO, both are coming off the same injury. Jokic/Murray was an upcoming combo since the bubble, but they have lost some depth whereas the Clippers have only increased theirs. But yes there is only one ball for the clippers. I think Reggie Jackson gets a bit disgruntled over Wall's ball dominance. Injuries...sadly can happen to anyone on any given game.

 

[Covert Rain]

We are not getting past the Warriors, Clippers or Mavs as is IMO.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don’t think Wall is going to have much of an impact with the clips. A speed reliant game doesn’t agree well after 5 years of missing 70% of his games.

 

[Proximo]

We are not getting past the Warriors, Clippers or Mavs as is IMO.

I am really not scared of the Mavs even a little bit.

If you think that series would repeat I highly highly doubt it, not to mention without Brunson I think they are a worse team. Suns were playing their absolute worst of the season, and I'm sure the coaching would improve in a rematch.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I am really not scared of the Mavs even a little bit.

If you think that series would repeat I highly highly doubt it, not to mention without Brunson I think they are a worse team. Suns were playing their absolute worst of the season, and I'm sure the coaching would improve in a rematch.

Same… except for the coaching thing.

But I do think the Mavs got worse losing Brunson. Hardaway Jr. isn’t the player Brunson is, being able to break down defenses and getting to the hole.

And I’m not sure how JaVale doesn’t clog the lane for Luka and hurt their spacing on offense.

 

[Covert Rain]

Same… except for the coaching thing.

But I do think the Mavs got worse losing Brunson. Hardaway Jr. isn’t the player Brunson is, being able to break down defenses and getting to the hole.

And I’m not sure how JaVale doesn’t clog the lane for Luka and hurt their spacing on offense.

Luca is a pretty balanced shooter (60/40) inside to out. He is not a "dunker" or layup guy. Over 51% of his shots come from a set offensive play. When not in a set play, Luka is a hold onto the ball until late in the shot clock shooter. I don't think JaVale is going to be a problem for Luka. They will use him similar to Phoenix when Book had the ball. If it's not a set play they will clear him.

No doubt Brunson hurts. However, the Mavs were the third worst team in the NBA rebounding. They couldn't stop anybody at the rim. Now with the combo of Woods/McGee? It completely changes their FC. Kidd has already commented how they plan on changing things up to be less reliant on jump shooting and more reliant on high percentage shots. They have no choice with Brunson no longer being there.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'd swap the Clippers and Nuggets. Jamal Murray is set to start the season and he'll help take a ton of pressure off of Jokic.

With the Clippers, on paper they should be contenders but I'll need to see them healthy to believe it. PG-13 and Kawhi work together but I don't think Wall makes them better. He takes the ball out of their hands and that won't help them much. I think Reggie Jackson was fine as their PG. Wall and Jackson are too small to play together for significant stretches.

I can't see their primary players staying healthy either. They miss a ton of games between injuries and load management and that won't help them gain home court for the playoffs, but I do expect they'll make the playoffs.

Wall is a strong 6’3. I don’t think he’s too small to play alongside Jackson. And Jackson can play off ball.

 

[95pro]

Wall is a strong 6’3. I don’t think he’s too small to play alongside Jackson. And Jackson can play off ball.

If anything, small ball is the thing these days. Their games were somewhat similar. Jackson before the acl injury was rising in star status on a bad Pistons team. Wall played balls to wall on bad Wizards team. Seems like their a crutch to one another.

 

[Phrazbit]

I feel like I am taking crazy pills.

Are you guys talking about the same John Wall who hasn't been healthy in 5 years, several knee surgeries, a torn achillies and (in his last action a year and a half ago) tore his hamstring...?

I expect John Wall the Clipper to be marginally more impactful than "Tony Parker, Charlotte Hornet"... probably more injured though.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I feel like I am taking crazy pills.

Are you guys talking about the same John Wall who hasn't been healthy in 5 years, several knee surgeries, a torn achillies and (in his last action a year and a half ago) tore his hamstring...?

I expect John Wall the Clipper to be marginally more impactful than "Tony Parker, Charlotte Hornet"... probably more injured though.

No one is saying he’s going to be great. No one.

 

[Covert Rain]

I don't know. I sort of agree with both of you, which is why I think it's splitting hairs.

McGee provided superb backup center play and the team, and fans especially, seemed to like him. He had a real value to the roster last year.

But at the same time he was virtually useless against teams who would force him to defend outside the paint, he just isn't quick enough side to side. We couldn't really play him in the playoffs. He also got gassed quickly and picked up foul like an 'investment savvy' bartender gobbling up NFTs.

He and Biz gave us probably the best "true center" bench situation in the league.

But I think Biz, JOCK, and Saric represent a really strong situation there. If Saric can return to form I would argue that we're probably better than we were, certainly more versatile.



...

...

...

That said...

I think we are going to eventually land Durant and the financials almost certainly will require Saric to be involved.

Not a chance we are better. Even with Saric back. No way Jock and Saric get regular playing time both. We have been playing Cam J at the four at times to get him minutes. With Ayton and Biz, Saric will have to split time at the four and 5. There are only so many minutes unless someone is in foul trouble. Jock is a roster filler. We lost a some of the best depth we have had in a decade when JaVale left. By no means we are the worst in the league in terms of depth but we are weaker IMO.

We need another legit PF on this roster to make up for JaVale’s loss in the FC IMO.

 

[Phrazbit]

Not a chance we are better. Even with Saric back. No way Jock and Saric get regular playing time both. We have been playing Cam J at the four at times to get him minutes. With Ayton and Biz, Saric will have to split time at the four and 5. There are only so many minutes unless someone is in foul trouble. Jock is a roster filler. We lost a some of the best depth we have had in a decade when JaVale left. By no means we are the worst in the league in terms of depth but we are weaker IMO.

We need another legit PF on this roster to make up for JaVale’s loss in the FC IMO.

I think we could be better without Saric being back. Everyone but Crowder and Paul are still expanding their game.

McGee was solid but a role player and someone that once teams game planned for we couldn't even put on the court. I like the guy but I don't view his loss as anything dramatic. Biz can do much of what he did, Cam Johnson will hopefully get more playing time at the 4 (I hope he supplants Crowder as a starter) and if Saric can play close to he did in 2021, I think we're clearly improved.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think we could be better without Saric being back. Everyone but Crowder and Paul are still expanding their game.

McGee was solid but a role player and someone that once teams game planned for we couldn't even put on the court. I like the guy but I don't view his loss as anything dramatic. Biz can do much of what he did, Cam Johnson will hopefully get more playing time at the 4 (I hope he supplants Crowder as a starter) and if Saric can play close to he did in 2021, I think we're clearly improved.

Saric is slow and lumbering and not a great rim defender. JaVale wasn’t lighting quick either but he protected the rim and there are stretches where he just looked great offensively. There is no way we are better replacing JaVale with Saric and Jock. You think Jock is going to see a ton of court time? I don’t. He is going to play the Biz role and only come in when someone is in foul trouble (assuming Saric can play). There isn’t enough minutes for Saric and Jock which means you are replacing Saric for McGee. Clearly there is a defensive difference there.

I think people forget how weak he is on defense and how sometimes he struggles to guard any position on the floor. It was his knock before he got here. He was brought here to be a point forward and stretch the court. Not defend.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Saric is slow and lumbering and not a great rim defender. JaVale wasn’t lighting quick either but he protected the rim and there are stretches where he just looked great offensively. There is no way we are better replacing JaVale with Saric and Jock. You think Jock is going to see a ton of court time? I don’t. He is going to play the Biz role and only come in when someone is in foul trouble (assuming Saric can play). There isn’t enough minutes for Saric and Jock which means you are replacing Saric for McGee. Clearly there is a defensive difference there.

I think people forget how weak he is on defense and how sometimes he struggles to guard any position on the floor. It was his knock before he got here. He was brought here to be a point forward and stretch the court. Not defend.

Saric isn't fleet of foot but calling him "lumbering" is way off IMO. Even fat Saric wasn't lumbering, in shape Saric has acceptable quicknes/speed for a backup 5 but still a little slow for the modern 4 spot.

 

[Covert Rain]

Saric isn't fleet of foot but calling him "lumbering" is way off IMO. Even fat Saric wasn't lumbering, in shape Saric has acceptable quicknes/speed for a backup 5 but still a little slow for the modern 4 spot.

He has never been able to keep guys in front of him. It’s been his knock forever. Even when he was drafted his big weakness called out was lateral quickness. I remember when he was drafted they were saying he isn’t quick enough for most fours, to slow to play the 3 and plays to below the rim to be a true four. Luckily he has good rebounding and shooting nights on occasion. He just struggles with matchups on many nights defensively. Call it what you want. He can have a good night fort you now and then but if we are depending on him night in and night out to play defense? We are screwed.