If this is the roster where do we stand?

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Now who's misinterpreting posts?? A total dismissal -- come on Ouchie, you're better than that.

You want to whine about losing Javale and how losing him makes us so much worse, you go right ahead. We disagree, but to essentially call me a liar and an idiot probably isn't the best way to advance a conversation.

Liar?!? Where did I call you a liar?

 

[elindholm]

Liar?!? Where did I call you a liar?

Are you saying you didn't call him a liar? So he's lying when he says you called him a liar? Sounds like you're calling him a liar.

 

[Phrazbit]

I want to start charting the dates of Chap and Ouchie having nasty arguments when really just splitting hairs.

Is Mercury in retrograde right now?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Are you saying you didn't call him a liar? So he's lying when he says you called him a liar? Sounds like you're calling him a liar.

Lol

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I want to start charting the dates of Chap and Ouchie having nasty arguments when really just splitting hairs.

Is Mercury in retrograde right now?

I have no idea how this turned nasty. I was only pointing out we lost a very good backup center - better than biz. Who knew it would be so contentious?

 

[JerkFace]

Chap: You called me a liar and an idiot.

Liar?!? Where did I call you a liar?

Haha. not sure if that was intentional… but kinda hilarious.

 

[Covert Rain]

It will. The guy is a fouling machine. Guaranteed he won't be playing more than 22 minutes per game because he simply won't be able to. He's a starter on Dallas because they don't have anyone better. Point is, he's not good enough to be a starting center unless he becomes the starter by default, which is what will happen in Dallas.

Even if he isn’t good enough to start he proved in abundance that with limited minutes he can be just as effective as Ayton in limited minutes. I think you are forgetting how bad it got when Ayton went to the bench the season before. The lane was a revolving door. How you can say this roster is only slightly worse when he was the most effective backup we have had in a long time is just surprising.

 

[Phrazbit]

I have no idea how this turned nasty. I was only pointing out we lost a very good backup center - better than biz. Who knew it would be so contentious?

I don't know. I sort of agree with both of you, which is why I think it's splitting hairs.

McGee provided superb backup center play and the team, and fans especially, seemed to like him. He had a real value to the roster last year.

But at the same time he was virtually useless against teams who would force him to defend outside the paint, he just isn't quick enough side to side. We couldn't really play him in the playoffs. He also got gassed quickly and picked up foul like an 'investment savvy' bartender gobbling up NFTs.

He and Biz gave us probably the best "true center" bench situation in the league.

But I think Biz, JOCK, and Saric represent a really strong situation there. If Saric can return to form I would argue that we're probably better than we were, certainly more versatile.



...

...

...

That said...

I think we are going to eventually land Durant and the financials almost certainly will require Saric to be involved.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Chap: You called me a liar and an idiot.



Haha. not sure if that was intentional… but kinda hilarious.

Eh, I think anyone’s argument with anyone else here can be perceived as calling the other person an idiot, so I tend not to address those. “Liar,” on the other hand is another story. That connotes someone purposefully misleading me or the board. I will call someone a liar, but only if they actually lie and I can prove it. And I always do so purposefully. Here I did not intend to call anyone a liar. So if there was something I typed that gave that impression, I apologize to chap.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't know. I sort of agree with both of you, which is why I think it's splitting hairs.

McGee provided superb backup center play and the team, and fans especially, seemed to like him. He had a real value to the roster last year.

But at the same time he was virtually useless against teams who would force him to defend outside the paint, he just isn't quick enough side to side. We couldn't really play him in the playoffs. He also got gassed quickly and picked up foul like an 'investment savvy' bartender gobbling up NFTs.

He and Biz gave us probably the best "true center" bench situation in the league.

But I think Biz, JOCK, and Saric represent a really strong situation there. If Saric can return to form I would argue that we're probably better than we were, certainly more versatile.



...

...

...

That said...

I think we are going to eventually land Durant and the financials almost certainly will require Saric to be involved.

Hopefully you’re right. If not, those three will get eaten alive by big centers.

 

[95pro]

That's sort of like saying that a 91% free-throw shooter isn't good because he's never going to get 100 free throw attempts in a game.

Some guys are more productive in limited minutes versus extended minutes. The longer Javale plays, the more bone headed stuff he'll do. But in limited minutes his productivity is pretty good for what he does.

 

[Chaplin]

Some guys are more productive in limited minutes versus extended minutes. The longer Javale plays, the more bone headed stuff he'll do. But in limited minutes his productivity is pretty good for what he does.

And I’m not arguing against that. But we’re talking about very specific and short blocks of time interspersed amongst several games. And he couldn’t even do that in the playoffs against a big team (NOLA) and a small team (DALLAS). At that point he is no longer a help but dead weight.

 

[Peter Sheldon]

And I’m not arguing against that. But we’re talking about very specific and short blocks of time interspersed amongst several games. And he couldn’t even do that in the playoffs against a big team (NOLA) and a small team (DALLAS). At that point he is no longer a help but dead weight.

good point.
Interesting that we brought in a couple bigs to help us against the Bucks in the hopes of reaching the finals
only to be done in by a smaller, less talented Dallas team with excellent coaching and zero Suns adjustments.

It seems you need a strategy for playoff wins rather than a strategy for regular season wins. Refs allow aggressive defense in the playoffs that they do not allow in regular season.

 

[JCSunsfan]

good point.
Interesting that we brought in a couple bigs to help us against the Bucks in the hopes of reaching the finals
only to be done in by a smaller, less talented Dallas team with excellent coaching and zero Suns adjustments.

It seems you need a strategy for playoff wins rather than a strategy for regular season wins. Refs allow aggressive defense in the playoffs that they do not allow in regular season.

I really felt this team was designed for the playoffs more than the regular season last year. I still cannot understand why the wheels came off for everyone in the Dallas series. If the Covid rumors are true, that could have something to do with it. It sure looked like something completely demoralized them, and it did not seem to be an on the court thing. The hard hard defense against CP3 did have some impact, maybe aggravating an injury.

Anyway. It just almost seems like the Suns are snakebit. It there was any lesson it might be that playoff basketball tends to expose CP3's age and physical fragility. If that is the case, even Durant might not fix the problem.

 

[Peter Sheldon]

I really felt this team was designed for the playoffs more than the regular season last year. I still cannot understand why the wheels came off for everyone in the Dallas series. If the Covid rumors are true, that could have something to do with it. It sure looked like something completely demoralized them, and it did not seem to be an on the court thing. The hard hard defense against CP3 did have some impact, maybe aggravating an injury.

Anyway. It just almost seems like the Suns are snakebit. It there was any lesson it might be that playoff basketball tends to expose CP3's age and physical fragility. If that is the case, even Durant might not fix the problem.

I felt that way going into the playoffs, that the Suns were as deep at all positions as it would ever be. I think the entire team was snake bitten starting a few weeks prior to the playoffs. Probably a whole host of things going on. How can an entire team forget how to shoot? I fear that aggressive defense on CP3 just wipes him out every playoffs. I see no solution to that other than having a couple adequate PG backups. Also think the Suns need a hound-dog defender in the playoffs like PJ Tucker. Suns are a finesse team that is not designed for a deep playoff run unless they get Ayton heavily involved inside on offense early and often and can hang with aggressive teams. Suns brought a knife into a gunfight.

 

[Mainstreet]

I felt that way going into the playoffs, that the Suns were as deep at all positions as it would ever be. I think the entire team was snake bitten starting a few weeks prior to the playoffs. Probably a whole host of things going on. How can an entire team forget how to shoot? I fear that aggressive defense on CP3 just wipes him out every playoffs. I see no solution to that other than having a couple adequate PG backups. Also think the Suns need a hound-dog defender in the playoffs like PJ Tucker. Suns are a finesse team that is not designed for a deep playoff run unless they get Ayton heavily involved inside on offense early and often and can hang with aggressive teams. Suns brought a knife into a gunfight.

If Rajon Rondo has any gas left in the tank, he might be the type of player the Suns need for point guard depth.

 

[elindholm]

Some guys are more productive in limited minutes versus extended minutes. The longer Javale plays, the more bone headed stuff he'll do. But in limited minutes his productivity is pretty good for what he does.

I agree that McGee is not viable as a starting center. When you go to a backup, though, one thing you're hoping for is that you won't lose much of the productivity you got from your starter. During his brief stretches on the floor, McGee made approximately the same contributions that Ayton would have been expected to make over the same stint. That's rare and valuable. McGee's presence in the locker room was also apparently very positive. Losing him is big.

 

[elindholm]

I felt that way going into the playoffs, that the Suns were as deep at all positions as it would ever be.

Hopefully last year's playoff flameout will help convince us once and for all that depth is overrated. You can't point to a single team, probably ever, that went deep in the playoffs because of the quality of the 10th-13th guys on their roster.

 

[Mainstreet]

Hopefully last year's playoff flameout will help convince us once and for all that depth is overrated. You can't point to a single team, probably ever, that went deep in the playoffs because of the quality of the 10th-13th guys on their roster.

I don't think a team can ever have enough depth but it has to be filled with players the coach is willing to play.

Cam Payne was clearly off in the playoffs but Monty didn't have the confidence to play Aaron Holiday more. James Jones needs to find that third point guard Monty is willing to play.

 

[Finito]

I don't think a team can ever have enough depth but it has to be filled with players the coach is willing to play.

Cam Payne was clearly off in the playoffs but Monty didn't have the confidence to play Aaron Holiday more. James Jones needs to find that third point guard Monty is willing to play.

But is Monty good at evaluating talent? Doesn’t seem so

 

[Covert Rain]

I don't think a team can ever have enough depth but it has to be filled with players the coach is willing to play.

Cam Payne was clearly off in the playoffs but Monty didn't have the confidence to play Aaron Holiday more. James Jones needs to find that third point guard Monty is willing to play.

I am not sure it's a matter of finding a point guard he is willing to play. Monty over the past 2 years has shown some stubborn tendencies about usage of his bench no matter who is sitting there. JJ might need a Monty intervention. I thought we completely wasted bench contribution the last 2 seasons because of Monty's tendencies.

 

[somethingshesaid]

Hopefully last year's playoff flameout will help convince us once and for all that depth is overrated. You can't point to a single team, probably ever, that went deep in the playoffs because of the quality of the 10th-13th guys on their roster.

That's true. Nobody can say the 1992-93 Suns got anything useful out of Jerrod Mustaf (my dad and I used to laugh at his ineptitude) or Negele Knight or Tim Kempton. Knight may have played a few minutes.

It is obviously much more important to have disciplined and experienced professionals. It amazes me how playoff teams can get away with starting deep bench players and even minor leaguers--if the team is good enough to compensate. Do you remember how many times the Rockets, who were at times mocked for lack of depth, tormented the Suns with obscure minor leaguers who had only one skill (often streak shooting)? And the Bulls dynasties used middling players no casual fan today would have heard of, because they were disciplined enough to get away with it. And the 2010 Suns--my jaw dropped. Starting Jarron Collins in the playoffs was like starting four-and-a-half players.

 

[Mainstreet]

But is Monty good at evaluating talent? Doesn’t seem so

Either that or he is stubborn who he plays. He needs to be able to make adjustments on the fly. What has worked all season may not work in the playoffs where teams have more time to dissect the opponent.

 

[gimpy]

How quickly you turn.

 

[Mainstreet]

How quickly you turn.

I don't think so.

When a person or team doesn't realize they can be better, that's when the problems begin.

Perhaps the Suns peaked too soon and forgot the hard work that got them there?