I'm afraid that if we are intent on getting a NT, it'll have to be in FA

[spanky1]

As I continue along with my assessment of talent,, I can't find the true NT in this years draft (other than Haloti Ngata and Gabe Watson) who are bound to end up in the 1st round. Rodrique Wright is a potential in the 2nd round, but I wasn't that impressed with him in either the Rose Bowl or the Senior Bowl.....at least not enough to burn our #40 pick on him at the expense of better talent at other positions. Expecting to find the answer in round 3 for immediate impact, is highly doubtful.

Ryan Pickett might have to be the answer in FA (which I'm OK with BTW).

 

[Redrage]

I know that some on this board would be displeased, but Haloti Ngata is a likely pick where the Cards draft.

 

[Redsz]

I know that some on this board would be displeased, but Haloti Ngata is a likely pick where the Cards draft.

Unless Ferguson is on the board, I don't see him dropping past the Bills.

 

[kerouac9]

Rest assured, Spanky, there are plenty of big fat guys that can spell the nose for Russell Davis, and all of them are going to fall a half-round lower than they're predicted. Babatunde Oshinowo (6'2", 320) will definitely be available in the second, and maybe in the third, and Denny loves Stanford guys.

Strengths
This kid is the best interior defensive lineman in this draft. He has really long arms and very long legs, yet he still carries over 300 lbs on his frame and doesn’t look overweight. Babatunde is very quick off the snap and keeps his legs moving all the time. The only way you can block this kid is to double team him or cut-block him. He can be used as a nose tackle in a 3-4 or as a DT in a 4-3. Babatunde in a one-gap system is very disruptive and in a two-gap system, controls the middle. He is the most complete DT that I have seen come out in the draft in a long time.

Needs to Improve
What can I say? He plays in the Pac 10, so he isn’t very well known! They know who he is on the west coast, but on the east coast, he isn’t well known.

Bottom Line
The closer we get to the draft, the more I don’t see how this kid will not be picked in the first round. He will help a team right away and will definitely reinforce your run defense the minute he hits the field. He is very smart, so your defensive playbook is not going to be a problem. He is quick enough to play as a DE or Nose guard in a 3-4. His athleticism is good enough to fall off the line into the passing lanes too. For me personally, I would list Babatunde as the first DT to be taken in this draft. However, as you all know, Rob’s list is the one we go by and because he has an 80% accuracy rating in listing where a player is taken in this draft, then that’s good enough for me. I’ll go by his list. Personally, I think he is a top twenty pick and I think the only reason he’s not being talked about is his name is too long to pronounce. My advice to you is to learn how to pronounce his name and learn it fast because he is a force to be reckoned with. Babatunde (The Force) Oshinowo has the heart to go along with his talent, strength, size and quickness.

Gerald Anderson (6'2", 318) out of Georgia will probably be available in the third:

Strengths: Is a massive two-gap DT/NT that continues to improve with experience. He has great overall size. Continues to improve his technique and strength. Is extremely difficult to move in the running game when he plays with leverage. He has good initial quickness for his size when he's fresh. He seems to play in spurts; if he's rested he can show good quickness, gets into position, will stay low and is a terrific space eater. Also shows some productivity as a bull rusher when he's fresh, stay low and works at it.

Weaknesses: Missed most of his freshman season with a shoulder injury. Weight and stamina are also concerns. Will be a player whose weight will always have to be monitored. At times he will get too big during the season, which leads to him wearing down quickly and becoming sluggish. Still needs to play with more consistent leverage and learn to use his hands better in order to disengage. He does not have great speed, burst or athletic ability and will never be a consistent threat as a pass rusher. Is not much of a penetrating player and does not fit well in a one-gap scheme.

Overall: Anderson received a medical redshirt after suffering a shoulder injury as a true freshman in 2001. He played as a reserve during his redshirt freshman season in 2002. He started all 14 games as a sophomore in 2003, finishing with 55 total tackles, eight tackles for loss and two sacks. As a junior in 2004, Anderson was a fulltime starter at the DT/NT position for the Bulldogs and finished with 31 tackles, seven TFL and a half sack. Anderson is never going to be more than a two-down run stopper in the NFL because of his lack of speed, pass rushing skills and endurance. He also needs to work on his discipline and stamina in order to maximize his NFL potential. However, Anderson fits the mold of a two-gap DT/NT that can hold his ground extremely well versus the run in a two-gap scheme. Anderson is just a mid-round prospect with still much to prove in terms of his consistency and playmaking ability as a senior in 2005. But with so many NFL teams moving to a three-man defensive front, Anderson could benefit from high demand alone, as he is one of a short-list of prospects capable of anchoring the middle of a line at the NT position.

Even a guy like Nebraska's LaKevin Smith (6'2", 305) could sub in for Russell Davis for a time and will be available in the middle rounds. Other guys like Jonny Jolly (Texas A&M), Maniaia Brown (BYU), Titus Adams (Nebraska), and Tim Sandidge (VA Tech) will be available late on the second day or as undrafted free agents.

Re-signing Russell Davis should be a priority. Then we need a wave player or two who we can groom and use to keep Davis fresh next year.

 

[kerouac9]

The Cards don't need an elite player to play the nose for them. Ngata and Watson are going to be higher picks because they can get after the passer better than others. We just need someone that's going to free up blockers for Berry, Dockett, and Okeafor and take 20-40% of the offensive snaps (with another 30-50% going to Russell Davis and the remainder going to Kenny King in pass-rush situations).

 

[spanky1]

k9,

Babatunde Oshinowo has been on my list for much of this off season. He is smaller than advertised (6'1''/307 as per the Senior Bowl weigh in versus the 6'2"/320 previously thought). That's smaller than Langston Moore. He may drop to the 3rd and if he does, he might be worth a look but not at #40 in the 2nd.

We need to make the 2nd rounder a sure fire pick and I'm afraid that rules out the NT wannabes other than Ngata and Watson.

Do we use the 2nd rounder on a ROT? Jeremy Trueblood is falling into the 3rd IMO and Ryan O'Callaghan is beter suited as a OG. The only other RT is McNeill and he won't last until the 2nd.

How about a FS? Ko Simpson might fall into the #40 range but is he a can't miss? I don't think so. Same with Greg Blue and Patrick Watkins. Dan Bullock is a talent but will slide into the third.

I'm not crazy about Omar Jacobs, Brodie Croyle or Charlie Whitehurst (QB's) in the #40 slot anymore.

I don't want to use this pick on a TE either.....I'd rather see Bergen for another year before making this position a pick.

Quite honestly, the 2nd round pick is a delemma for me right now.

 

[football karma]

two guys who dont have the classic NT type build, but play that style, have rankings in the second round:

Jonathan Lewis of Va Tech -- 305 or so, but only 6 ft -- lets him get under pads and and control blocks. high effort guy who can control the line of scrimmage -- also added 4.5 sacks as a bonus

Orien Harris of Miami -- another unheralded middle of the line run stuffer

Second day guy:

Montavious Stanley of Louisville -- 6-2 and 320 lbs. Primarily a run defender

and then my favroite late pick or UDFA:

Steve Fifita of Utah--5-11 and 323 lbs. In the 2005 Fiesta bowl, this guy just continually blew up Pitt's inside running plays--- a line that put Rob Pettiti in the NFL last year and has a first day prospect in Charles Spencer.

 

[kerouac9]

k9,

Babatunde Oshinowo has been on my list for much of this off season. He is smaller than advertised (6'1''/307 as per the Senior Bowl weigh in versus the 6'2"/320 previously thought). That's smaller than Langston Moore. He may drop to the 3rd and if he does, he might be worth a look but not at #40 in the 2nd.

We need to make the 2nd rounder a sure fire pick and I'm afraid that rules out the NT wannabes other than Ngata and Watson.

Do we use the 2nd rounder on a ROT? Jeremy Trueblood is falling into the 3rd IMO and Ryan O'Callaghan is beter suited as a OG. The only other RT is McNeill and he won't last until the 2nd.

How about a FS? Ko Simpson might fall into the #40 range but is he a can't miss? I don't think so. Same with Greg Blue and Patrick Watkins. Dan Bullock is a talent but will slide into the third.

I'm not crazy about Omar Jacobs, Brodie Croyle or Charlie Whitehurst (QB's) in the #40 slot anymore.

I don't want to use this pick on a TE either.....I'd rather see Bergen for another year before making this position a pick.

Quite honestly, the 2nd round pick is a delemma for me right now.

Get it out of your head that being big = being able to stop the run. Remember Barron Tanner and Marcus Bell? Those guys were huge, but they stunk it up.

Russell Davis is listed at 6'4", 306. That's not that much bigger than Baba. Booger McFarland is 6'0", 300. Chris Hovan is 6'2", 298. Tampa managed to control the run.

Your problem is the problem with picking for need instead of picking BPA.

 

[Redrage]

k9,

Babatunde Oshinowo has been on my list for much of this off season. He is smaller than advertised (6'1''/307 as per the Senior Bowl weigh in versus the 6'2"/320 previously thought). That's smaller than Langston Moore. He may drop to the 3rd and if he does, he might be worth a look but not at #40 in the 2nd.

We need to make the 2nd rounder a sure fire pick and I'm afraid that rules out the NT wannabes other than Ngata and Watson.

Do we use the 2nd rounder on a ROT? Jeremy Trueblood is falling into the 3rd IMO and Ryan O'Callaghan is beter suited as a OG. The only other RT is McNeill and he won't last until the 2nd.

How about a FS? Ko Simpson might fall into the #40 range but is he a can't miss? I don't think so. Same with Greg Blue and Patrick Watkins. Dan Bullock is a talent but will slide into the third.

I'm not crazy about Omar Jacobs, Brodie Croyle or Charlie Whitehurst (QB's) in the #40 slot anymore.

I don't want to use this pick on a TE either.....I'd rather see Bergen for another year before making this position a pick.

Quite honestly, the 2nd round pick is a delemma for me right now.

Gamecock homerism aside, Ko Simpson is the real deal. I'd love for us to snatch him in the 2nd but I don't think he'll be there.

 

[overseascardfan]

I am for FA NT's like Pickett or Warren assuming Denver cuts him. But if we had to take a DT in the draft, mine would be Jonathan Lewis of Va Tech. They guy is a really good football player that was 1st team ACC.

 

[sundevil04]

Go

whats wrong with finding a nt in fa, there are plenty. I'd go after kendrick clancey from nyg, he's been credited with the drastic improvement the giants run D saw this season and allowing the ends to get to the passer while taking on blocks. I cant see spending a top 10 pick on a guy who's job is to take on blocks, a top 10 pick is for a difference maker, we already have 3 difference makers on the dl, no need to spend such a valuable pick on another when we could sign a fairly low priced FA to do exactly what we need. I would even want to see a day one pick on a dt unless its a guy that was in free fall and was a huge value pick. this draft is too deep at other positions of need like fs, te and ol, thats perfect for those 2nd and 3rd rounders.
________
Body science

 

[JeffGollin]

Gerald Anderson (6'2", 31 out of Georgia will probably be available in the third:
Nose tackles are different from everyone else. Their role is to eat up space and occupy a couple of blockers to free up the LB's.

Watson and Anderson may not put up gaudy stats, but they can serve the limited purpose carved out for them.

One other thought - Although some say that he'd be wasted playing out of position - Bunkley can play NT. If he were drop into the second or third round, why not draft him as a swing tackle to provide depth behind Dockett and the starting NT (probably Davis)?

(Note - You'd think Ngata could also excel in a limited role as NT, but I question whether he has the necessary quicks to go along with his impressive size and strength. (He looks as though his range is limited to about 1 foot).

 

[football karma]

I like Bunkley alot -- in the second round

official list is 286 lbs, but weighed in at the Senior bowl at 300 or so.

FSU played him on the nose and he was pretty good.


I also agree with K9 that a good run stuffing defense isnt dependent on having a 330 lb guy sitting in the middle. Minnesota has Pat Williams next to Kevin Williams, Green Bay has Grady Jackson and both gave up an identical 4 yards a carry average on defense that the Cards did.

Looking at the upper third (top 11 teams) in rushing defense, you see just as many teams playing two "standard" defensive tackles as you do teams with the big space eater.

 

[ARZCardinals]

Spanky-

note the history of the top DT coming out of college. If you trace back the past 10 years of looking at the 'top' DT's coming out of the game none of them made an impact their rook year. They all take 3 years to develop...why? who knows.

Corey Simon is a perfect example...he's great now, but you look at his rook year....'worthless.'

DT's must be taken in FA.

Dockett has a great motor, yet needs a beef cake next to him.

There a few quality guys and one of the top 3 MUST be had. Hovan would be solid, but we need someone like Adams, even if it's for only1/2 the game.

 

[Chopper0080]

It is hard to say what type of player would be best with our defense, but there is a huge difference between an over tackle used in the 4-3 and a nose tackle used in a 3-4. In a 4-3, you need an over tackle who can PUSH the pocket and command a double team freeing up the ends and the other DT. In a 3-4 the NT is used to HOLD the line of scrimage allowing linebackers to make plays up the field. There is a real fundemental difference between the two even though they sometimes share the same position name of NT. This is why 3-4 teams (steelers) have been able to find great d-linemen for their system late in drafts. The players that they target while being DE's and DT's don't fit as well in a 4-3 as they do in a 3-4.

 

[spanky1]

Spanky-

note the history of the top DT coming out of college. If you trace back the past 10 years of looking at the 'top' DT's coming out of the game none of them made an impact their rook year. They all take 3 years to develop...why? who knows.

Corey Simon is a perfect example...he's great now, but you look at his rook year....'worthless.'

DT's must be taken in FA.

Dockett has a great motor, yet needs a beef cake next to him.

There a few quality guys and one of the top 3 MUST be had. Hovan would be solid, but we need someone like Adams, even if it's for only1/2 the game.

Isn't this what I was saying?

 

[JeffGollin]

note the history of the top DT coming out of college...They all take 3 years to develop...why? who knows.
You may be right, but that if logic keeps you from ever drafting a NT high enough, you'll always be three years away from having a good one.

You have to start sometime.

I just wish we could come into Camp watching 4 or 5 of those beasts lumbering around banging heads on the practice field. You've got to figure that, sooner or later, one or two of them will emerge as dominators.

The problem with looking to free agency is that good available NT's are always in short supply and, therefore, expensive - you invariably watch teams like New England or Chicago steal all the good ones.

 

[duckfallas]

I'd be happy with Watson in round one after a trade down or in round two. I think he's the best NT in the draft, hands down.

 

[JeffGollin]

I'd be happy with Watson in round one after a trade down or in round two. I think he's the best NT in the draft, hands down.
If we could be absolutely sure that Watson would consistently put out at the level he did during Senior Bowl practice, I'd agree with you (maybe even as high as #10 - how about that folks!)

But the problem is that the kid's past MO suggests that he hasn't sustained that effort on every down in every game. It's hard to know what we'd be getting; therefore, the risk.

 

[Evil Ash]

I'd be happy with Watson in round one after a trade down or in round two. I think he's the best NT in the draft, hands down.
If we could be absolutely sure that Watson would consistently put out at the level he did during Senior Bowl practice, I'd agree with you (maybe even as high as #10 - how about that folks!)

But the problem is that the kid's past MO suggests that he hasn't sustained that effort on every down in every game. It's hard to know what we'd be getting; therefore, the risk.

Almost all NTs have the same question marks as it comes to that. Hence why its such a difficult position to accurately judge.

 

[Duckjake]

If the Cards continue to run that slant NT alignment it won't matter who they play there. He won't be effective.

If I were a NT Arizona is the last place I'd want to play.

 

[spanky1]

If the Cards continue to run that slant NT alignment it won't matter who they play there. He won't be effective.

If I were a NT Arizona is the last place I'd want to play.

Remember.....we have a new D-Line coach. Perhaps he agrees with you regarding the "slant" NT and will change it.

 

[kerouac9]

Add another NT prospect to your list of guys to keep an eye on: Montavious Stanley DT Louisville.

Stanley saw time as a reserve in 11 games as a true freshman in 2002 and was bothered by a lingering turf toe injury that season. He started 12 games at the defensive end position and one at defensive tackle in 2003, finishing with 37 tackles, 13 TFL and three sacks. He started 10 games at DT as a junior in 2004, finishing with 30 tackles, 4.5 TFL and four sacks. Stanley started all 11 games he played as a senior in 2005, finishing with 48 tackles, 10 TFL and 5.5 sacks. He tore a muscle in his chest and underwent surgery on December 15, 2005, which prevented him from playing in the Gator Bowl vs. Virginia Tech. Stanley was having the best season of his career prior to the injury. He is a prospect that has continued to add bulk and improve his technique with every passing season. His size also gives him some upside as a potential two-gap DT and/or NT in the NFL. However, Stanley does not have much experience playing in a two-gap technique and he might not possess the athletic ability to play as a one-gap penetrating type of DT in the NFL, which means his learning curve could be steep. Stanley shows enough promise because of his size, strength and short area quickness to warrant early Day 2 consideration in the 2006 draft, but his most recent injury could cause him to slip a bit farther.

 

[Duckjake]

Remember.....we have a new D-Line coach. Perhaps he agrees with you regarding the "slant" NT and will change it.

I hope so. Somebody on the Cards needs to realize that goofy set up only works in a 3-4.

 

[football karma]

I hope so. Somebody on the Cards needs to realize that goofy set up only works in a 3-4.

For what its worth, I have seen Tampa run the same slant NT alignment often. It seems to work for them