In defense of Robert Sarver

[sly fly]

Add me to the group that is appreciative of the Colangelos, but there is a point where the team needed to move on, and while the timing here isn't the greatest, at least it is in a time where the team's popularity is soaring and they are definitely contenders to the title for years to come.

The only thing that really rubs me the wrong way (and sends up warning signals) is the timing of this thing.

IMO, it's extremely classless and tacky to pick up and leave your team half-way through the year. Not to mention that team happens to be in 1st place, and on course for a #2 seed.

What does that say about BC? And, Toronto?

To me, it says that organization is low-rent, scum.

 

[Chaplin]

I guess you have to look at the attraction of Bryan Colangelo as well.

What attracted free agents to Phoenix?

Players
Weather
City
Fans

What attracts free agents to Toronto?

...
...
...

I can't see Bryan Colangelo being the draw for free agents. They have Chris Bosh, but can you EVER see a team constructed in Canada that resembles Detroit, Miami, Phoenix, Dallas, or San Antonio? No doubt, they'll draft better, but how many years will it be before draft picks will produce a legit title contender? Mediocrity is better than what they are now, but I fear that Toronto will go the way Phoenix did for its first 30 years.

 

[Ryanwb]

The only thing that really rubs me the wrong way (and sends up warning signals) is the timing of this thing.

IMO, it's extremely classless and tacky to pick up and leave your team half-way through the year. Not to mention that team happens to be in 1st place, and on course for a #2 seed.

What does that say about BC? And, Toronto?

To me, it says that organization is low-rent, scum.

To his defense, when is a good time to leave? He is staying till the end of the season. What if he left after the season? Would you be saying, "He leaves during Free Agency and leaves the team with no options in working out deals with free agents, how classless"

It was his time to move, there was an open position available now and he had to jump on it. Again, it's just business. The GM doesn't really contribute during the season, it's the off season where he earns his money

 

[Yuma]

Why would you want a guy in a position of trust to serve out a position he's taking with another organization? Not good business.

 

[sly fly]

To his defense, when is a good time to leave? He is staying till the end of the season. What if he left after the season? Would you be saying, "He leaves during Free Agency and leaves the team with no options in working out deals with free agents, how classless"

It was his time to move, there was an open position available now and he had to jump on it. Again, it's just business. The GM doesn't really contribute during the season, it's the off season where he earns his money

Good point.

Just seems kind of odd considering BC's tenure with PHX. I was fooled into believing the Colangeli bled purple and orange.

BC goes from one extreme to the other (literally)... and no longer has ties to an organization in which he partially "owned" and managed.

But, I see what you're getting at.

 

[Bunker]

F-Dog

I don't know where all the hatred comes from. You hate Sarver for a bunch of silly reasons like accounting tricks and you spit on the Colangelos, etc. you need to chill.
We get Amare back and we are going to make a run... Sarver has plenty of abilities to get the job done and so do the Colangelos.

 

[CardsFan88]

all i have is this to say I guess

From what I understand...and it's just from what I've heard, is that sarver isn't exactly the best guy to work for.

I would think some of that rubbed bc the wrong way.

Personally if I was treated or even saw the treatment of that ticket taker or security guard, it would lower the opinion I have for my boss.

That said bc wasn't used to any of it with the suns.

Would another gm be able to handle that type of 'piss poor' management/ownership style. Yes.

But that said, I still have a gut feeling it WAS Sarver that caused this. If he runs business in 'that' way, I can see why people wouldn't be necessarily begging to work for them. The thing is, if it was certain actions that sarver did that rubbed bc the wrong way then it IS sarver's fault. I can see sarver running his business in 'his' way. I said I called it 'piss poor' and from what I've heard, and from the fiascos we've gone through he can still think, I've done nothing wrong. But I'd tend to think he has.

It's obvious if he lets his power position get to him and treat some of the arena workers like he has, then I can see that manifesting in some fashion amongst everyone else. And I can see the same type of x, whatver the word is in every dealing sarver has had.

An owner who lets his ego get in the way is not the type of owner I want. And when that owner lets small $$ relatively speaking make decisions for him...well lets just say I don't like that combo.

Meanwhile bc wasn't used to dealing with either.

I really think the suns are in a lucky position. If sarver had bought a horrible team, I can't see how he could make it good any time soon. But with the suns he'll get a pass. I can only hope that he can make good decisions on who will be the gm. Whoever they get better be good, and better make MORE than bc got right now. (for obvious reasons)]

I love the suns, I love the past couple of years, and I still look forward to the next couple. But I would be lying if I didn't think that with Sarver, once things are solely in his control in the sense of everyone who was there b4 him is gone (players, gm, staff, etc) we'll be looking at a .500 team at best unless we get lucky. That said, hopefully he'll prove me wrong. But the one thing I can't stand is a person in power at the top, using it to hurt people at the bottom. And in this case with him being the owner he's playing the owner card. But when it comes to the decision the owner makes which 'really' impacts his credibility, I've seen nothing but bad things which warrants in my book, no credibility.

At first I thought I was happy because I thought we got an owner that would continue on with the colangelo tradition of running a top notch organization. I've heard of a few cases since sarver took over recently which completely contradict that first impression. And they say that once you make an impression it takes about 10 times to change that impression. Well it's changed which should tell you how I've seen things of late.

Whatever happens, Go SUNS!

 

[slinslin]

But I would be lying if I didn't think that with Sarver, once things are solely in his control in the sense of everyone who was there b4 him is gone (players, gm, staff, etc) we'll be looking at a .500 team at best unless we get lucky.

lol

 

[mribnik]

eh, the suns have a damn good record since Sarver took control. Perhaps it's not because of him, but I think I'll withold criticism until there is something to criticize. We're on a 57 win pace without Amare, that's unfreakingbelievable.

 

[fordronken]

I think the Raptors will be a playoff team in two years. Since their horrendous start, they've been a decent team(and by decent I mean average). If Bosh develops the way I think he ought to, he'll be good enough with even a mediocre supporting cast to get a playoff berth. With a couple of smart signings, decent trades and a good draft, they'll be all right.

 

[George O'Brien]

I think it's time to take the position that Sarver starts with a clean slate. Whatever he did or didn't do when BC was here means nothing. What matters is what he does from now on, because it is his responsibility and only his responsibility.

As for BC's timing, I can't complain. He's leaving after the trade deadline and before the draft evaluation period. If there is a "quiet period", this is it.

Why would he want to go north? Money, control, and $15 million in cap space. He gets a chance to prove he really is that brilliant and not just doing what his dad tells him to do.

BTW, I have at least some empathy for BC. I'm not the easiest guy to manage because I don't suffer fools lightly. I've found that bosses hate to be shown they were wrong - and prefer to pay consultants to hear the same message.

With Sarver, all I'm interested in is how he actually performs.

 

[Chaplin]

I think it's great that so many people on this board personally know the ticket takers, security guards, ball boys, announcers, janitors and training personnel of the Phoenix Suns, otherwise we wouldn't get this very revealing information about Sarver being terrible to work for.

Way to go everybody!

 

[Errntknght]

I have a question for F-Dog or anyone else who knows the answer. How did JC opt out of his deal with Sarver? Or did he just say something to indicate he wasn't giving thought to what the Suns were doing?

 

[VinceBlack]

Someone sounds like someone is a little bitter with other people's financial positions.

 

[CardsFan88]

I think it's great that so many people on this board personally know the ticket takers, security guards, ball boys, announcers, janitors and training personnel of the Phoenix Suns, otherwise we wouldn't get this very revealing information about Sarver being terrible to work for.

Way to go everybody!

Every once in a while one of them frequents a bar I go to. Really great old guy.

But I digress that most of what I've heard (the big things) didn't come from him. But let's just say this guy wasn't impressed by sarver, etc.

Not to mention I always treat everyone with respect from the drive thru guy or anybody that 'works' a service job for me.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Sarver is a smart business man, you aren't successful in business by taking control over everything. You bring in key people to delegate and make the decisions for you. Colangelo had to go, there was no back room dealings, there was no hurt feelings or brused egos. This is a business like the offices we all go to everyday. Sarver will find a basketball mind as his replacement....

besides, this team will not need an elite GM for a few years, the nucleus is here, we just need to resign Diaw....

that's all well and good. but business acumen does not always translate over between industries. people USUALLY fail when they try their hand at something with which they are unfamiliar. now i'm not saying that will DEFINITELY be the case here, i'm just saying that ANYTIME you bring in a new owner the odds are better that the new owner will fail than succeed. especially when comparing that owner to a previous successful owner. what sarver has in his favor is that he's got a really good product to begin with.

 

[F-Dog]

I have a question for F-Dog or anyone else who knows the answer. How did JC opt out of his deal with Sarver? Or did he just say something to indicate he wasn't giving thought to what the Suns were doing?

As far as I can tell, JC stopped doing any work for the Suns after the summer of 2004. He told everybody then that Bryan was taking over the reins, and then volunteered to head the Olympics search committee.

I believe JC is still obligated to help, but I doubt that help is worth anything even beyond the likely conflict of interest. JC probably couldn't tell Rodney Carney from Ronney Brewer at this point, or tell you much about either of them aside from the fact that they aren't good enough (or white enough) to make the Olympics pre-qualifying team.



I heard that when this was blowing up, JC mentioned publicly that Sarver might already be ready to take over basketball operations.

 

[Mainstreet]

As far as I can tell, JC stopped doing any work for the Suns after the summer of 2004. He told everybody then that Bryan was taking over the reins, and then volunteered to head the Olympics search committee.

I believe JC is still obligated to help, but I doubt that help is worth anything even beyond the likely conflict of interest.

IMO, Jerry has always been deeply involved in running the Suns team even with BC as the GM. He is sort of the guru of basketball here since Cotton passed on. I think Jerry learned most of his good basketball knowledge from Cotton.

Besides, Jerry has forgotten more basketball knowledge than 99% of us will ever know.

If I heard correctly on the radio yesterday, someone mentioned (I believe it was Sarver), that he asked Jerry's opinion about bringing in a particular player. I was bouncing from radio station to radio station and I was also trying to hear comments from Weber too (but only got the rehash). However, I remember something to the effect that Sarver hopes Jerry stays on (and he has talked to him) but he knows that family is involved as well.

Sorry if my memory is a little shaky here but I was trying to get us much factual information as possible (not just the talk show hosts opinion).

 

[Diamondback Jay]

I guess you have to look at the attraction of Bryan Colangelo as well.

What attracted free agents to Phoenix?

Players
Weather
City
Fans

What attracts free agents to Toronto?

...
...
...

I can't see Bryan Colangelo being the draw for free agents. They have Chris Bosh, but can you EVER see a team constructed in Canada that resembles Detroit, Miami, Phoenix, Dallas, or San Antonio?

With Bosh a free agent to be, and absolutely ZERO guarantees he's going to re-sign, Colangelo better get his ass in gear and start working the extension wires now, because without Bosh, that team is nothing. Charlie V has upside and so does Graham, but other than those two and perhaps Mike James (another free agent to be who's probably going to bolt town at the first opportunity), noone on that roster really is someone you can get excited over.

No doubt, they'll draft better.

Not neccessarily.. Beyond Nash, Marion and Amare (who a moron would have known to pick at that point), most of BC's draft picks were either traded away or used on less than memorable players. Sadly, the Casey Jacobsons, Big Jakes and Zarkos of the draft were more prevelent than the ones who panned out. To be fair, the Suns were routinely winning however, so the chances of them getting a Tim Duncan at that point were nil.

Mediocrity is better than what they are now, but I fear that Toronto will go the way Phoenix did for its first 30 years.

The question is will Toronto be patient with him? BC was given quite a few free passes on bad moves while in town, and I really doubt he'll be given the same leeway in Toronto.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Up until 2003 the Suns drafting was by far the best in the league. You forgot to add the Finley pick, and the controveral Marion pick. It is no coincidence that the Suns drafting slipped as soon as Jerry took a step back. He was the real eye for talent in the draft.

Chris Bosh is NOT a "free agent to be". For him to leave, he would have to turn down an extension this summer, then turn down an extension or max offer next summer. Then he could become a UFA. Top rookies do NOT leave after their rookie contract. It just doesn't happen, there is way to much to risk. There is no way Bosh puts 80 million dollars on the line that he wont get hurt within 2 years, especially with what happened with Amare. Bosh is just trying to pressure the organization to make moves, and BC nows that for sure.

BC was supposedly given a 5 year, 20 million dollar deal. There is no way he gets fired before year 4 because they wont want to eat the deal. Also, Wayne Embry - Peddie's top advisor - is a close personal friend of Jerry. He has known Bryan since he was a little kid. You don't think the Cs knew what they were doing? The reason they went to Toronto is because Bryan will have nearly as much security as he did here, allowing him to make some more risky moves. Otherwise Bryan should have just held out for a bigger gig, like that NY one that should open up in the next year or so.