In Warner's defense

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The fumble was knocked out of his hand by an OL.

One of the interceptions was tipped by a DL

On another interception his arm was hit by a DL.

Doesn't the OL have some responsibility for these turnovers.

Warner had a bad day, but the mistakes were not his fault. He didn't lose this game the OL did.
 

Rats

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The fumble was knocked out of his hand by an OL.

One of the interceptions was tipped by a DL

On another interception his arm was hit by a DL.

Doesn't the OL have some responsibility for these turnovers.

Warner had a bad day, but the mistakes were not his fault. He didn't lose this game the OL did.

Yes, but it is futile to get several posters here to acknowledge this is actually what occured. Warner looked quite good until the Helmet to Helmet penalty. Both he and the lines protection were only so so after that. His fumble at the end is what has most not giving him any quarter.
 
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Jetstream Green

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Warner should not be benched

He had a bad game and the line really played its best game in a while. He is a 2 time MVP and a veteran which means he can easily bounce back from a game like this. Leinart will be a good QB but the main word is 'will be' and frankly I think benching Warner is foolish.
 

Rats

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I have NO idea what that word is

It's kinda like a agnostic type acknowledgement kinda a word......oh hell forget it I can't spell.....I took a shot:doi:
 

green machine

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The fumble was knocked out of his hand by an OL.

One of the interceptions was tipped by a DL

On another interception his arm was hit by a DL.

Doesn't the OL have some responsibility for these turnovers.

Warner had a bad day, but the mistakes were not his fault. He didn't lose this game the OL did.


Umm...

The throw shouldnt' be tipped by the D-lineman, but if it's the one I'm thinking of (the first red zone one) he was throwing into double coverage anyways.

The ball was not knocked out of his hands by the O lineman. Warner already lost it, the lineman just knocked it forward.

The mistakes belong to Warner. He threw the balls that got intercepted. He fumbled the ball that got knocked 5 yards forward. It is all on him.
 

AZ Shocker

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The fumble was knocked out of his hand by an OL.

One of the interceptions was tipped by a DL

On another interception his arm was hit by a DL.

Doesn't the OL have some responsibility for these turnovers.

Warner had a bad day, but the mistakes were not his fault. He didn't lose this game the OL did.
Well sure, but if Warner had any kind of mobility...he would simply side step to get a clean throw off. Leinart will do that almost immediately from simply being 13 years younger than Warner.

Warner seems to enjoy just standing there as dudes "swipe" at his throwing arm. Warner knows what's happenning...he just doesn't want to admit it. A lot of pride in that old man. :)
 

mesacardsfan

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sorry green machine this teams problems are not all on him thats total garbage. The oline has SUCKED since he has been here period to blame the losses all on him is rediculous.
 

green machine

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sorry green machine this teams problems are not all on him thats total garbage. The oline has SUCKED since he has been here period to blame the losses all on him is rediculous.

Um...I thought we were just talking about the game against the Rams...But I guess if it helps to prove your point then it's worth largening the scope.
 

mesacardsfan

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Ok just against the rams then, he made one bad throw that coakley I beleive picked off the others were a great play by a DB diving to catch a ball almost on the ground on a lazy dig route by boldin and one bounced off a helmet and got picked hardly all on warner. I don't know the exact numbers off the top of my head but I was there and our D could not get off the field on 3rd down make a freakin stop once in awhile other than on 1st or 2nd down. There were many problems to blame the loss on warner alone is rediculous. The snap was not that great and was hit by the gaurd watched it many times.
 

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Um...I thought we were just talking about the game against the Rams...But I guess if it helps to prove your point then it's worth largening the scope.

and can someone tell me how bad the O-line sucked against Niners as well?Kurt had pretty decent protection that day. Thy didn't run block well, but they gave him time to get Offensive Player of the Week - or was that just all Kurt and no help from the O-line?

he O-line played a decent game pass protecting in week 1, pretty poor in week 2 and very well in week 3 and yet Warner STILL has 8 fumbles and 4 picks - that's pathetic.

the guy couldn't even hold on to the ball in pregame freaking warmups! Twice putting it on the ground with NO ONE coming after him. That's beyond words bad.
 

mesacardsfan

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Sure Steps sorry ass has nothing to do with that huh cheese? I think 2 fumbles is more accurate as in the ones lost if they are not TO's don't really think they are killing us as long as he makes up for them by making plays!
 

mesacardsfan

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Your right cheese he had ok protection in the niners game and had a nice game didn't he? If our D could stop anyone from scoring it would be nice!
 

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Ok just against the rams then, he made one bad throw that coakley I beleive picked off the others were a great play by a DB diving to catch a ball almost on the ground on a lazy dig route by boldin and one bounced off a helmet and got picked hardly all on warner. I don't know the exact numbers off the top of my head but I was there and our D could not get off the field on 3rd down make a freakin stop once in awhile other than on 1st or 2nd down. There were many problems to blame the loss on warner alone is rediculous. The snap was not that great and was hit by the gaurd watched it many times.

The deflected pass was going into double coverage, in fact, Warner had many passes that were forced into double coverage.

The one to Coakley was rediculous, and the "lazy route" by Boldin was still a bad pass...Sure the DB made a great play, but it was a bad pass.

But the guard did not knock the ball out of Warner's hands. He knocked it forward, but if Warner had gotten the ball cleanly without already fumbling it then it would never have been an issue.

As for the defense, if you give up only 16 points you should win. It's that simple.
 

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Sure Steps sorry ass has nothing to do with that huh cheese? I think 2 fumbles is more accurate as in the ones lost if they are not TO's don't really think they are killing us as long as he makes up for them by making plays!

He makes up for the fumbles not being lost by throwing INT's instead.

The fact that he puts the ball on the ground that much does matter because it increases the likelyhood of a turnover. To not even think it's a concern isn't too smart.
 

mesacardsfan

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Ok your right! That must be why Warner will be the starter, because he gives us the best chance for wins period.
 

green machine

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Ok your right! That must be why Warner will be the starter, because he gives us the best chance for wins period.

Well I'm not the coach so it's not my decision. I don't mind them starting Warner this game, but expect him to be on a very short leash. Besides, we could have Shaun King and Josh McCown behind Warner and starting Kurt would mean less about his abilities and more about the lack of skill behind him.

I think in this case Green knows that once he benches Warner there is no looking back, so he wants to make damn sure that's what he wants to do.
 

hafey

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Here is my thinking on the subject. At this point, I'm not sure Leinart can't do anything Warner can do. In addition to that, I believe leinart can protect the ball, something Warner can not do.
 

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The fumble was knocked out of his hand by an OL.

One of the interceptions was tipped by a DL

On another interception his arm was hit by a DL.

Doesn't the OL have some responsibility for these turnovers.

Warner had a bad day, but the mistakes were not his fault. He didn't lose this game the OL did.



I'll give you one, but you have to give me one in return.

After CAREFUL review of the tape, I have seen VERY clearly two things:

On another interception his arm was hit by a DL.

I concede that ball was thrown off by Little by a slight elbow tap...and little as it may seem (no pun intended) hitting a throwing elbow can really screw up a pass. However, it did come out a perfect spiral, so the tap had to have been very slight...but yes, it is there. Barely, but yep, there. It makes that INT far less atrocious, but still a bad pass into double coverage. But yep, I can't give him that INT solely on himself.


The fumble was knocked out of his hand by an OL.

THE FUMBLE on replay in slow motion was clearly...crystal clearly all on Warner. Watch in slow motion as the ball is snapped into his hand...Brown's hand is down low, coming up...the ball hits Warner's hands as he receives the snap with the forward point at about a 170 degree angle (not perfect) but then the forward tip of the ball hits Steps ass as Kurt pulls it back and it rotates clockwise to about a 90 degree angle and the ball slides out of the bottom of his hands and is popping out of the top of his hands (due to the upward momentum of the bottom of the ball's tip hitting Step's ass and pushing high). During this time, Brown's hand is coming up from the left hand side, from a down position. The replay isn't even clear that Brown actually contacts the ball, but it is clear that the ball is moving up out of Kurt's hand before it is humanly possible for Brown's hand to even make contact.

The ball was fumbled basically, and perfectly, off of Step's ass...Kurt didn't get the snap and it squirted out up high...Brown had nothing to do with the fumble.

It is extremely clear on replay, and I'm sad to say I've watched this frame by frame more than 50 times TRYING to see anything but Kurt being at fault here.

In fact, at freeze frame when the ball is already out of Kurt's hands, the freeze frame shows Brown's hand under the ball before it makes contact. Now, Brown may have helped the forward momentum of the fumble after the fact, but even the physics of the ball moving and the placement of Brown's hand don't really suggest that. After all that review, it seems that Brown is simply guilty of slapping Step on the butt....if he had actually HIT that ball as it came out of the vertical position of the ball it would have been spinning in some other direction...but it did not.

I'd like others with tape to slow it down and verify my findings, but I'd guess solely based on the slo mo replay slowed down frame by frame, and the physics of the ball and contact with it, that Brown actually didn't even make any contact with it.

Regardless, it is clear that Kurt never had a grasp on it and it was squirting out immediately as the ball's bottom forward tip dragged along Step's useless ass.
 

Russ Smith

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Yes, but it is futile to get several posters here to acknowledge this is actually what occured. Warner looked quite good until the Helmet to Helmet penalty. Both he and the lines protection were only so so after that. His fumble at the end is what has most not giving him any quarter.


So he played well for just over a quarter and then struggled for 3 quarters?

If you look at his splits for this year you'll note after 10 attempts his numbers go way down, for 11-20 and 21-30. Then they oddly go WAY up for 31-40 attempts although that's only 15 attempts. 3 games is too early to statistically be absolutely significant but it sure appears to me that as the game wears on and Kurt gets hit a few times he becomes a totally different player.
 
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