Is D'Antoni DUMB?

[D-Dogg]

I
A lot of people say chemistry is overrated--I believe I heard or read that recently--but I don't believe it when it pertains to the Phoenix Suns. We overachieved last season why? Because our chemistry was so good. We're a better team this year, but if our chemistry is suffering, it won't matter.

I don't argue with you there...chemistry is everything. Anyone who says it is overrated has a) never played on a team with great chemistry and/or b) has never played on a team with bad chemistry. Timing and knowing your teammates positioning in multiple situations and their tendancies in those particular situations is crucial in basketball. I don't argue with you there at all.

In the Suns free-flowing offense it is very important...it is also important in the Lakers Tri as well...one of the reasons they are woefully inconsistent is because they have been rotating guys in and out because of need and haven't developed that nice chemistry you guys had mid-season.

 

[SO91]

Whatever, believe what you want. I wish you had beat the clips and the Mavs had beat GS so the Lakers could take tomorrow's game off.

Yeah, they could get hurt driving or shopping or effing thier wives/gfs/hoes/whatever but the fact remains that they didn't need to play as a win or loss didn't mean anything. ...

OMG you said hoes!! Al will be in contact with you shortly

 

[D-Dogg]

This isn't High School.

Exactly..."rust" is even less applicable here. These are professionals. If it doesn't apply in high school, it damn sure doesn't apply in college or the NBA.


Thanks for making my point crystal clear.

 

[D-Dogg]

OMG you said hoes!! Al will be in contact with you shortly

Bring it on, Al!!

 

[pokerface]

Well, it's all in the past now. Nobody is injured and we still have the 2nd seed--hopefully against the Lakers, but that's out of our hands.

Take a breath and enjoy it for 2 seconds.

I guess...I just felt like venting some.


At least Diaw is coming around huh Chap?

 

[Chaplin]

Exactly..."rust" is even less applicable here. These are professionals. If it doesn't apply in high school, it damn sure doesn't apply in college or the NBA.


Thanks for making my point crystal clear.

You're comparing yourself to professional athletes who can play 35 minutes a night if they have to every other night--high school athletes cannot. Heck, COLLEGE athletes can't either.

Is there a danger for injury? Sure. But there's a danger for injury on November 1st also, isn't there?

 

[Chaplin]

I guess...I just felt like venting some.


At least Diaw is coming around huh Chap?

Hells yeah!

This is weird--within the space of a day, I've agreed with pokerface, cheesebeef AND Eric.

This must be bizarro world. Oh wait. The Warriors might make the playoffs. It IS bizarro world!

 

[D-Dogg]

You're comparing yourself to professional athletes who can play 35 minutes a night if they have to every other night--high school athletes cannot. Heck, COLLEGE athletes can't either.

If you prick them, do they not bleed?

Rest is good for them...very good. Fresh legs in the playoffs...it is truly like a second season, at least if you go deep. Mentally and physically it is tougher.

Is there a danger for injury? Sure. But there's a danger for injury on November 1st also, isn't there?

Do they know they have the number two seed locked up on Nov 1? The question isn't can they get hurt..they can any time and not on the court. The question is why expose them to risk in meaningless games? Could they get hurt walking across the street? Sure. Could they get hurt playing in an NBA game? Sure. Which one is more likely? When is "keeping off rust" to the detriment of "staying healthy?"

The point here is moot, because they are healthy going into the playoffs (though losing the last two kind of sucks), but I wouldn't be happy if Phil pulled that with Kobe and Lamar if we had the great fortune to be in your position.

 

[Gaddabout]

I don't argue with you there...chemistry is everything. Anyone who says it is overrated has a) never played on a team with great chemistry and/or b) has never played on a team with bad chemistry.

I said it, and it was in the context of people thinking chemistry has anything to do how well professional athletes get along outside of the arena. Chemistry is about putting all your personal crap aside once you walk through the arena doors and focusing on the team agenda. This team does it better than most teams I've seen. You, of all people, should understand that. The Lakers didn't win three championships because Kobe/Shaq were constantly hashing out their feelings with each other in the locker room. They left that crap for the off-season where they could send each other messages through rap lyrics.

As for playing starters at the end of the season with nothing official on the line, that's always a coach's call. If the Suns are tired heading into the playoffs, fans have the reserved right to revisit D'Antoni's decision. But if it doesn't affect them in the first round, it's a mute point. And if the Suns bury whomever in the first round, hey, everyone should give D'Antoni a pat on the back.

I don't think there's some universal rule here. Maybe if you have an entire team of veterans who've won a ring or two before, like the old Celtics or Lakers of the 80s, or the San Antonio Spurs, you don't worry so much about them being ready for the playoffs. But with this team, which has never settled on a 5th starter and has a tendency to get bored with the style, D'Antoni is well within his right to make the call.

It doesn't deserve criticism. Not yet, anyway.

 

[D-Dogg]

I said it, and it was in the context of people thinking chemistry has anything to do how well professional athletes get along outside of the arena. Chemistry is about putting all your personal crap aside once you walk through the arena doors and focusing on the team agenda. This team does it better than most teams I've seen. You, of all people, should understand that. The Lakers didn't win three championships because Kobe/Shaq were constantly hashing out their feelings with each other in the locker room. They left that crap for the off-season where they could send each other messages through rap lyrics.

Ok, I hear you...that is two different things. You don't have to have off court chemistry...but you do on-court. That is what happened with Kobe and Shaq when Phil came...they had on-court chemistry and played well together. Off court, they had little respect for the other.

On-court chemistry is crucial...you can hate all your teammates and what they stand for, but if you play well together you can do great things.

 

[Chaplin]

Ok, I hear you...that is two different things. You don't have to have off court chemistry...but you do on-court. That is what happened with Kobe and Shaq when Phil came...they had on-court chemistry and played well together. Off court, they had little respect for the other.

On-court chemistry is crucial...you can hate all your teammates and what they stand for, but if you play well together you can do great things.

See, there's the rub. The Suns were winning, but they weren't playing well together.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I've always liked D'Antoni and thought he was a great coach but this is the first time I really question his brains. Why would he play these last two games with his regualer starters claiming its for momentum and then risk his players health and confidence by LOSING. If he truly believes in momentum then these last two losses can only hurt us....right?? Clearly these last two teams had more to play for and showed it while the Suns wern't willing to step it up.....SO WHY TRY?? Why not just do the smart thing and give the bench heavy minutes and give our guys a rest ESPECIALLY since they wern't up to it anyway. Was there really a game plan about this or is it just some half hearted half baked bull that just backfired all over his face?

Were you a Suns fan in 93 when the Suns benched the starters for the last 5 games of the season, only to lose the first 2 playoff games at home to the Lakers? They have to win the last 3 games, including 2 at LA in order to survive the first round (back then it was the best of 5 series).

I actually think that it is smart to play the starters. I don't know if I would have played them at the end of the game, but I would rather them in tune with each other, rather than the Suns trying to find their chemistry again after sitting for almost a week.

 

[elindholm]

Exactly..."rust" is even less applicable here. These are professionals. If it doesn't apply in high school, it damn sure doesn't apply in college or the NBA.

You are becoming very smug and annoying. I don't know whether you value my responses, but if you want to keep receiving them, you need to soften your attitude.

Whenever a team gets through a playoff round quickly, in the next round, every commentator says, "The long layoff might have helped, but they might also be rusty." They say it every time. And, because it plays on television, they always orchestrate it so that one person says, "Oh, no, you always want rest," and the other guy says, "I don't know, it's hard to keep your focus when you go a week or so without in-game competition."

Now, I don't know whether it's an issue or not. Maybe the talking heads just need something to say. But of all those people who say it's an issue, I'll bet at least some of them really believe it.

Your high school experience is completely irrelevant and I can't imagine why you brought it up, except perhaps to assert some general superiority in basketball knowledge. I mean, high school? Come on. I won my heat of the 600-yard run when I was nine years old, but that doesn't mean I know how olympic track stars should train.

I can guarantee that D'Antoni's motivation was keeping his players sharp, not winning the games. (That said, winning would have been nice.) It's the same reason he keeps his stars on the floor during blowouts: he wants them immersed in the system as much as possible. Maybe it's a good idea and maybe it's not, but to dismiss it with haughtiness and eye rolls is flat-out arrogant and really not conducive to discussion.

 

[Mulli]

 

[Joe Mama]

My only problem with Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire playing at the end of the game was that I thought they were playing better when they were out.

I don't think the losses have any effect on momentum. They might even help. I watched both games, and I don't think the Phoenix Suns were trying their hardest in either even though they played regular minutes. Still, they were right there at the end of the game with opponents who were desperate to win.

Lastly, I can see resting players if the game has no ramifications on the playoff race. I think it's wrong to see your starting lineup when it's possible that it will mean a team might not get a playoff chance. I think it hurts the integrity of the game. The least they could do was give the appearance that they cared.

Joe

 

[D-Dogg]

You are becoming very smug and annoying. I don't know whether you value my responses, but if you want to keep receiving them, you need to soften your attitude.

And then you follow that up with a smug and condescending post? Come on, e. You can't say someone is smug and annoying, and then proceed to be smug in your own post...regardless of the validity of your claim. Besides, I think the smilies I used in that post you quoted were sufficient to show the post was intended to be lighthearted pokes so I don't know how you "soften" that.

I used my example (which you just pissed all over with your 9 year old track analogy) because it was a situation exactly the same albeit at a much lower level. I don't think it's a stretch there, but apparently you do. If you don't find it applicable, take it and move on...what's the need in getting bent about it?

Regarding announcers, I don't buy anything they say. They are talking heads and as you said, say contridictory things in an effort to fill the airwaves with their own discussion. Dallas rested all their starters, as did the Spurs. This isn't Pop's first rodeo, and I don't think he is worried about "rust." I happen to agree completely with Pop's philosophy, not D'Antoni's, so I guess I would agree with the talking heads who dismiss "rust." IMO, the only time you have rust is after a summer of not playing ball or a long layoff of injury where you can't practice. Practice eliminates rust....that is from my own experience which apparently doesn't mean anything even though I experienced it.

I think D'Antoni is a good coach, but I agreed with the OP that playing Nash and Amare in a meaningless game was a pretty dumb move. And yes, I feel strongly enough about that to approach it with eye rolls.

And you keep going back to this idea that they can get hurt elsewhere so what's the big deal. I rhetorically asked the questions below but the answer is "players are more at risk in an NBA game."

The question isn't can they get hurt..they can any time and not on the court. The question is why expose them to risk in meaningless games? Could they get hurt walking across the street? Sure. Could they get hurt playing in an NBA game? Sure. Which one is more likely? When is "keeping off rust" to the detriment of "staying healthy?"ould they get hurt walking across the street? Sure. Could they get hurt playing in an NBA game? Sure. Which one is more likely? When is "keeping off rust" to the detriment of "staying healthy?"

And no, practice is essential to keeping your "eyes on the prize." It's far more important than playing meaningless games without full effort. No matter what Allen Iverson has to say on the matter. Practice = elimination of rust. There is no "rust" if you practice. It's an invalid concept. That's my bottom line, and it is my opinion. If you don't agree, fine.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Lastly, I can see resting players if the game has no ramifications on the playoff race. I think it's wrong to see your starting lineup when it's possible that it will mean a team might not get a playoff chance. I think it hurts the integrity of the game. The least they could do was give the appearance that they cared.

Joe

But pulling your starters, so that another team might have a chance to win isn't hurting the integrity?

 

[fordronken]

I don't get why this is an issue. If they had to play for positioning with the Spurs still, would anybody say, "Screw it, just take the three seed. We don't want to get hurt at the end of the year."? And, as a player, you'd always rather have a game than a practice. D'Antoni himself said that he'd rather play on Tuesday, then give the players Wednesday off. Is practice that much less of a risk than a game? I'm pretty sure that the starters are on the floor for longer than 37 minutes in a practice.

 

[Covert Rain]

I don't get why this is an issue. If they had to play for positioning with the Spurs still, would anybody say, "Screw it, just take the three seed. We don't want to get hurt at the end of the year."? And, as a player, you'd always rather have a game than a practice. D'Antoni himself said that he'd rather play on Tuesday, then give the players Wednesday off. Is practice that much less of a risk than a game? I'm pretty sure that the starters are on the floor for longer than 37 minutes in a practice.

No kidding. Guys if we don't get to the finals this season it won't be because these last 2 games made us tired. People are overreacting. If anything, this team will be too tired because our bench rotation is too short. If the starters are going to be to tired as a result of their playing time the last couple games then we have some major issues.

 

[zett]

First off our team is not comparable to SA spurs, they are old and need rest, we are pretty youthfull, with the exception of 2 players, 2nd if the playoffs started thursday, I think we can rest players, I have no problem with him playing the starters, (Although I was a bit suprised). we have four days off before we play again, Thats more then enough rest for us to recharge our batteries.
And Donald, those talking heads are mostly former head coaches in the league, so I give a little more credit to them when they say such things.

Further more I think the loss of these two games won't hurt, but actually will help us keep focus in knowing that how bad you want it, is important in the way teams can play. I think it is the right amount of time for us to refocus our energy and our mental fatigue.

Here's to a successful post season!

 

[jenna2891]

I think D'Antoni is a good coach, but I agreed with the OP that playing Nash and Amare in a meaningless game was a pretty dumb move. And yes, I feel strongly enough about that to approach it with eye rolls.

i'd like to refer you to this because it seems pretty applicable here:

Listen dude, I will never disparage anyone who knows wtf they are talking about, but I just can't stand people who think they know something about somewhere better than the people who actually live there. Just like you don't know jack about the Lakers, I don't know jack about the Suns. I'm not the guy to come to with questions about Nash and his back...

i can usually tolerate with a healthy level of disgust your support of the lakers, but when you start spouting off holier-than-thou comments about what's best for my team, i'm gonna be a little pissed.

so donald, it was sweet of you to drop by, but respectfully, ****.

 

[abomb]

First off our team is not comparable to SA spurs, they are old and need rest, we are pretty youthfull, with the exception of 2 players

Yeah, only player #1 and #4 on your team.

I wish the playoffs would start so we can all stop beating these dead horses.

 

[D-Dogg]

i'd like to refer you to this because it seems pretty applicable here:



i can usually tolerate with a healthy level of disgust your support of the lakers, but when you start spouting off holier-than-thou comments about what's best for my team, i'm gonna be a little pissed.

so donald, it was sweet of you to drop by, but respectfully, ****.

Point taken, and well made. Maybe it is better for the Suns to play games than to rest...I'd have no idea on that other than surprise that a 60 win team has chemistry or issues that need playing to fix. Is that REALLY the case?

However, darling love jenna, my comments aren't really about the Suns but more about the philosophy of resting your starters or not resting your starters, which the Suns, Dallas and Spurs all did in different ways.

Mayhaps I should use Coach A of Team X and Player Star 1 and Player Star 2 so nobody is offended or butthurt because their team is mentioned. The underlying point remains...rust is a myth unless you are talking about long layoffs with no practice or injuries with no practice. No matter who you are.

It looks like Mikey D made the right choice though, as you fans are all aboard with it. So I'd defer to your judgment on your team...but I wouldn't feel the same on my Team X that I cheered for as I'd think it would be poor risk management.

But you made your point, sweetieheartbear, and I will depart from this topic with nary a glance back. Like I said, it's moot anyway because they stayed healthy.

 

[Mulli]

Hey Kobe lover, if the Lakers are the Laker barely a .500 team because they were just "resting?"

 

[D-Dogg]

Hey Kobe lover, if the Lakers are the Laker barely a .500 team because they were just "resting?"

I'm not supposed to be posting in here...miss jenna the mighty has cracked her whip. But no...they were sucking, not resting.