Is it actually possible to please some folks

[Sandan]

It seems that no matter what the Cardinals do, somebosy allways has to rip on them

I mean when we have issue coming up the retoric typicaly goes along these lines.

1) They will never hire/sign XXXX because the are to cheap/stupid
2) The did sign XXXX, there must be something wrong with him
3) They will never let XXXX do his job without unreasonable constraints

We started this with the search for a HC, then we went on to doing it with the assistants.

Maybe, just maybe MIke Bidwill and Rod Graves know what they are doing. Maybe so does coach Green. By analogy maybe the assistants the HC has hired also know what they are doing.

Of course they have to deliver, but it seems now that some are suggesting that we have some throwaway assitants because we are too cheap (kinda of a 1a). That is really reaching folks.

I'm waiting for the conspiracy theory that our new DC is an alien and got his job by mind control which he also used to get the stdium passed. The fact that he has been an NFL coach for years and seems qualified for the position doesn't seem to matter.

 

[Jim O]

Originally posted by nidan
It seems that no matter what the Cardinals do, somebosy allways has to rip on them

Unfortunatly, the Cardinals are historically an easy target. Until there is evidence in the form of WINS, the perception will never change.

WIN!

 

[SECTION 11]

Who is this XXXX guy?
Bring him in. Couldn't hurt.

 

[imaCafan]

Re: Re: Is it actually possible to please some folks

Originally posted by Jim Omohundro
Unfortunatly, the Cardinals are historically an easy target. Until there is evidence in the form of WINS, the perception will never change.

WIN!

I thought you already knew, Jim. We ARE gonna win next year!!!

 

[spanky1]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Who is this XXXX guy?
Bring him in. Couldn't hurt.

Section 11................man you've got a keen wit!

 

[red desert]

Originally posted by spanky1
Section 11................man you've got a keen wit!

Doesn't he though? I bet he's a blast to drink with.

 

[Jim O]

Originally posted by red desert
Doesn't he though? I bet he's a blast to drink with.

I remember seeing him at Jackson's for the Draft Party last year. He was drinking at 8:30am!

 

[red desert]

Originally posted by nidan
It seems that no matter what the Cardinals do, somebosy allways has to rip on them

I mean when we have issue coming up the retoric typicaly goes along these lines.

1) They will never hire/sign XXXX because the are to cheap/stupid
2) The did sign XXXX, there must be something wrong with him
3) They will never let XXXX do his job without unreasonable constraints

We started this with the search for a HC, then we went on to doing it with the assistants.

Maybe, just maybe MIke Bidwill and Rod Graves know what they are doing. Maybe so does coach Green. By analogy maybe the assistants the HC has hired also know what they are doing.

Of course they have to deliver, but it seems now that some are suggesting that we have some throwaway assitants because we are too cheap (kinda of a 1a). That is really reaching folks.

I'm waiting for the conspiracy theory that our new DC is an alien and got his job by mind control which he also used to get the stdium passed. The fact that he has been an NFL coach for years and seems qualified for the position doesn't seem to matter.

I don't understand your point? What you're describing is simply human nature. People second guess and criticize.

You won't ever have a consensus of satisfaction. It ain't gonna happen. Even if the team is winning.

 

[conraddobler]

The vast majority of the NFL public or whatever you want to call it never pays much attention to the Cardinals and so they always just take the easy way out... ie they always suck so it is safe to assume that whatever they do in fact probably sucks..

The people in the Valley just assume they suck because the media pretty much takes the easy way out on the subject as well.

Anyone who follows the team like most on here do would have to admit that in fact the Cardinals are making some of the most drastic changes they ever have and this has been going on for over a year now.

Jim is right until the team wins though there isn't much anyone can say.

However this is just not the same Ol Cardinals irregaurdless of wins or losses the effort is there where in the past it could rightly be labled as lacking.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Re: Re: Is it actually possible to please some folks

Originally posted by red desert
I don't understand your point? What you're describing is simply human nature. People second guess and criticize.

You won't ever have a consensus of satisfaction. It ain't gonna happen. Even if the team is winning.

I agree....a little debate is good....as long as in th end everyone comes around to my way of thinking!

 

[Sandan]

Sure, but right now it is getting a little out of hand.

Tango has come around but we still have some others who are pretty far out there

 

[CaptTurbo]

Originally posted by nidan
Sure, but right now it is getting a little out of hand.

Tango has come around but we still have some others who are pretty far out there

You mean by not thinking like you? Hmmm seems odd. Im not sure if I am one of the guys "out there" I thought Green was a great hire as long as he didnt hire family and friends over talent for assistants. Of course if he wins either way I couldnt care less. But as of now its seems its the family and friends.

With the "Getting known assistants route". You knwo he is trying very hard to win. With the "friends and family" approach is could go 2 ways. 1) Trying to win. 2) the "Buddy Plan" aka Get everyone you know rich before the gravy train leaves.

Right now he is working on the friends and family approach so we dont know what 2 outcomes are on their way. See?

Not very hard. Very logical. I think the cards are doing everything they can do to win. I think Graves and Mike are putting their best options out on the field. The cards organization did what was best for the organization when they hired buddy ryan too. It wasnt their fault for not reading Ryan's mind and seeing he wanted to rob them.

Reading a mind is impossible. So nidan you can either read Green's mind, thus you are at ease, or you are trying to put people down for being smart enough to see that this can end good or it can end very badly. Which is it? What am I thinking right now? lol

Ohhh I woulda taken XXXX over anyone else. Im with section on that one.

 

[Mike Olbinski]

Re: Re: Is it actually possible to please some folks

Originally posted by Jim Omohundro
Unfortunatly, the Cardinals are historically an easy target. Until there is evidence in the form of WINS, the perception will never change.

WIN!

Jim, you are exactly right...

This girl and I at work here constantly have to take the trashing of the Cards without much response, because hey! there isn't really much to say in their defense at this point in time.

Until they win, and win consistently, we really have no legs to stand on. That's what's so hard about being a Cards fan.

But this year will be different...I hope. Because after all this, if the team is the same old team next year, and the year after, well then I don't think it can ever change.

Mike

 

[Russ Smith]

Re: Re: Is it actually possible to please some folks

Originally posted by red desert
I don't understand your point? What you're describing is simply human nature. People second guess and criticize.

You won't ever have a consensus of satisfaction. It ain't gonna happen. Even if the team is winning.

Yep. I live in the Bay Area where people are used to the 49ers winning every year. True story one year they're playing I think the Packers, my dad and I go fishing in the Delta. 7am at the ramp we rent the boat(Before I had mine) and the guy renting the boat is complaining about Steve Young, chokes, not a big game player, and the team can't beat the Packers. I just looked it's 98 and yes it's the Packers.

Well the rental boat has spark plug issues and we're cruising back to the marina on one cylinder for well over an hour(30 minute ride if the engine is fine) listening as the 49ers go downfield and Young hits Owens in the endzone for the gamewinner on the last play. the famous play where Joe Starkey is screaming "Owens , Owens he got it he got it". So we get back to teh ramp, tell the guy his engine crapped out, and he's smiling and talkign about what a great QB Steve young is!

Next week they lost to the Falcons, and he's complaining about young again.

you can't please anybody with sports.

 

[Sandan]

That's a reasonable comment swd1974 except Greens hasn't hired all his friends and family has he.

I see no family at all and if I assume by frinds you mean ex vikings coaches (which may not be the same thing, but any previous relationship is so old as to be hardly relevant) then

Clancy Pendergast = no relation (nr), not ex viking (nev)
Alex Wood = nr
Steve Wetzel = nr
Kirby Wilson = nr, nev
Richard Solomon = nr
Deek Pollard = nr, nev
Robert Ford = nr, nev
Frank Bush = nr, nev
Bob Wylie = nr, nev

Sorry if I missed anybody but it's a lot of changes.

swd1974, the facts do not support your conclusion. There is no famility whatsoever and out of the 9 guys I found only 3 used to be on the Vikings staff with Green.

I contend that 33% is not an unreasonable # to hire from his previous team, which by the way used to go to the playoffs a lot.

 

[CaptTurbo]

I am sorry. Maybe you took my sarcasm a bit too far. When I means friends and family I mean people he is very close with.

Say if I was hired by the cardinals to do their IT management and I was nearing retirement and had no soul (like buddy ryan) Then I would hire peopel who were VERY technical but also my best friends or very close friends.

But as we drank and had a good time behind closed doors we would all laugh and talk about the fortune we were making. See what I mean?

You cannot deny what Green has been doing. BUT it may be that all of them want to be known as the guys who turned around one of the worst franchises in history (record speaking).

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Who is this XXXX guy?
Bring him in. Couldn't hurt.

Why bother. We have Gillmore, Grace, etc. Who needs XXXX?

Resign the scrubs. Couldn't hurt.

 

[Sandan]

I understand you now but let me put a slightly differnt light on it.

I believe you do web development correct (comments on Cold Fusion) ? Conversely I own a IT consulting business.

Sure I hire people I know (I'm somewhat well known in the Oracle community in Phoenix) , I also hire people I've never met before. What I really do is hire people who can do the job, that sometimes means I hire people who I already know can do the job.

The difference between coach Green and a previous coach who shall be nameless is the motivation (at least I hope it is and I really do have faith in Rod's judegment on this). Green wants to win, he want the Cardinals to win. If they do it consistantly, he will be happy, quite well off $$ and going to the Hall of fame. Everybodies interests are in alignment.

And a bit like Lex's new sig, I'll continue to believe until given a reason not to but he would really have to screw up this year to do that.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by swd1974
I am sorry. Maybe you took my sarcasm a bit too far. When I means friends and family I mean people he is very close with.

Say if I was hired by the cardinals to do their IT management and I was nearing retirement and had no soul (like buddy ryan) Then I would hire peopel who were VERY technical but also my best friends or very close friends.

But as we drank and had a good time behind closed doors we would all laugh and talk about the fortune we were making. See what I mean?

You cannot deny what Green has been doing. BUT it may be that all of them want to be known as the guys who turned around one of the worst franchises in history (record speaking).

True, Solomon is the hire that concerns me, beyond that I've got no real bad feelings about anybody. Remember, last year people in Dallas were wondering why the hell Parcells brought in Payton and Carthon, Payton was demoted by Fassel and that led to the Giants offensive explosion that got them into the playoffs. Carthon was basically an ex player nobody seemed enamored with but Parcells. One year later and they're getting HC consideration because Parcells turned Dallas around.

Solomon my issue is clear, he was a primary reason why Green quit Minnesota, given he had to show he "learned" from that experience, it's odd that he hired the guy who caused so many problems before. But I will give him the benefit of the doubt, it's not like Minnesota had a real talented secondary and Solomon screwed it up, most of their problems were lack of talent, and talent leaving to FA.

 

[Stout]

I'm sorry, I had to. I hate to be negative at all right now, as I feel we're headed in a great and exciting direction, but I had to.

I get sooooo sick and tired of those lame-brained, status-quo people that make fun of us (Section 11 not included-that was funny) for wanting to sign other teams' cuts.

I mean, the same people want us to be happy we resign nobodies, never-beens, and scrubs, but get upset when we think it's stupid to ignore guys like Big Daddy and Marcus Robinson.

Now that's backwards logic, any way you look at it.

 

[NFL_FAN]

Hey, it's all change and it's all new to us so lets wait and see. For now, I'm happy and will wait until week 6 to make further comment, ok maybe I'll have something more to add after draft weekend and during FA pick up time but for now, hey, it's much different than it was a month ago!!!

No, I'm not a complete homer but getting all pissed off about it now will do no good. Is Green going to read this board and say to himself,"Damn, Tango is right, I better dump these guys I've hired and start over!" Doubtful. (Sorry, Tango, your name just popped into my head)

 

[DieHardFromMO]

swd1974,

I believe that best word to describe what your feelings are is "cronyism", which is the appointment of others to positions irrespective of their qualifications, i.e. Solomon.

I see nothing wrong with hiring people you are familiar with as long as they can get the job done. With Solomon his history shows suck-ass secondaries in Minnesota.

I personally despise both cronyism and nepotism.

 

[Sandan]

Can our secondary get much worse ?

 

[DieHardFromMO]

Originally posted by nidan
Can our secondary get much worse ?

Our secondary cannot get much worse, at least I hope not. I certainly would have liked to see somebody hired for the position though that had a history of success as a defensive backs coach, not some crony like Solomon who was widely criticized for his lack of coaching skills while with Minnesota.

The best way to improve our secondary is to sign some veteran free-agents who do not need to be coached at how to play cornerback or strong-safety. I like Dexter Jackson of course everything he learned was elsewhere.

 

[Sandan]

Dexter is Q's sidekick in the super hero grouop, so yes I like him as well.

But really, none of us have any real idea of Solomon's ability. None of us know what really happened in the past or if he learnt from it.

You never know, maybe Jo will get a chance to ask Solomon about what he thinks about the critisism.