Is Kevin Kolb worth a first round pick?

[Mainstreet]

Some team is reportedly offering a first round pick for Kevin Kolb. It is apparently not the Cardinals or the 49ers. Anyway there is a rundown on the Cardinals as viewed by Peter King of SI in Kent Somers blog dated 3-21-11 at azcentral.

*Sports Illustrated's Peter King reported this morning via a source that an unidentified team has offered the Eagles a first-round pick for quarterback Kevin Kolb. Coach Andy Reid, however, is holding out for a higher pick in that first round. That seems to rule out the Cardinals (fifth pick) and the 49ers (seventh pick) as teams making the offer.

It's also possible the Eagles are letting that news leak just to bring out potential suitors.

*King listed the Cardinals and 49ers are potential employers for Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer, who wants to be traded to a team in the West. The 49ers and Cardinals, it seems, have a rivalry that extends into the off-season. Two years ago, the 49ers tried to woo Kurt Warner away from the Cardinals. Maybe the Cardinals will reciprocate this year by bringing Alex Smith in for a visit, if and when free agency begins. The 49ers would like Smith back.

I'd like the Cardinals to give Alex Smith a look.

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/KentSomers/122892

 

[lobo]

Some team is reportedly offering a first round pick for Kevin Kolb. It is apparently not the Cardinals or the 49ers. Anyway there is a rundown on the Cardinals as viewed by Peter King of SI in Kent Somers blog dated 3-21-11 at azcentral.



I'd like the Cardinals to give Alex Smith a look.

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/KentSomers/122892

To answer the question...unequivocally YES if I am writing the checks...why screw around with all the "if he could" "if he can only" stuff and get a guy who can play for 10 or so years and was considered good enough to take McNabb's spot this past year AND has the best pedigree and training of anyone who could be signed...no....I don't want to try and catch lightning in a bottle again with Bulger (Warner), I don't believe either QB is worthy of a a top 10 pick (Cam/Blaine)...just do it..but they won't.

 

[kerouac9]

To answer the question...unequivocally YES if I am writing the checks...why screw around with all the "if he could" "if he can only" stuff and get a guy who can play for 10 or so years and was considered good enough to take McNabb's spot this past year AND has the best pedigree and training of anyone who could be signed...no....I don't want to try and catch lightning in a bottle again with Bulger (Warner), I don't believe either QB is worthy of a a top 10 pick (Cam/Blaine)...just do it..but they won't.

Yes. He has the pedigree of A.J. Feeley and Donovan McNabb, both of whom were super-successful after leaving Andy Reid's notoriously QB-friendly offense.

 

[the_future23]

Yes. Just not the 5th overall.

 

[NJCardFan]

Kolb wasn't even a 1st round pick but those who feel he is worth it, please list his accomplishments. The guy has for his career: 194 of 319(60-8%) for 2,082 yards, 11TD's and 14 INT's and a career rating of 73.2 rating. If some of you feel this equals a 1st round draft pick, then we have different expectations of what a 1st round draft pick is. Alex Smith has better numbers. Are you saying Alex Smith would be worth a 1st round pick?

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Lol! Hell To Tha' No!

 

[Buckybird]

Either it's the Vikes offering a 1st rounder to the Iggles or Reid is just bluffing all potential trade partners with his comments. I'm not touching Kolb with a 1st...

 

[NashDishesDimes]

Kolb wasn't even a 1st round pick but those who feel he is worth it, please list his accomplishments. The guy has for his career: 194 of 319(60-8%) for 2,082 yards, 11TD's and 14 INT's and a career rating of 73.2 rating. If some of you feel this equals a 1st round draft pick, then we have different expectations of what a 1st round draft pick is. Alex Smith has better numbers. Are you saying Alex Smith would be worth a 1st round pick?

Dont play devils advocate just to play it.

Just because he wasnt a first round pick this has nothing to do with his value today. He hasnt played in many games and when he has he has moved the ball down the field with far more consistency than Alex Smith. The only component of his numbers that is bad is interceptions, with only a few games under his belt, it is farfetched to expect something different...

Dont compare the value of Kolb to Alex Smith..you know thats rediculous..

I agree with the above, he may be worth a 1st rounder but not the #5. If the Cards gave up their 1st and 4th for Kolb and Phillys 2nd i would definitley consider it...Pass rushers and LBs can be found in the 2nd round...

 

[mojorizen7]

Kolb wasn't even a 1st round pick but those who feel he is worth it, please list his accomplishments. The guy has for his career: 194 of 319(60-8%) for 2,082 yards, 11TD's and 14 INT's and a career rating of 73.2 rating. If some of you feel this equals a 1st round draft pick, then we have different expectations of what a 1st round draft pick is. Alex Smith has better numbers. Are you saying Alex Smith would be worth a 1st round pick?

I agree. If i'm trading a 1st rd pick for a QB i'd like him to have at least played in a full NFL season of 16 straight gm's. Kolb's longest appearance in an NFL season is 7 gm's,not his fault necessarily,but he has had significant injuries.

One could argue that Kolb's just untapped talent waiting to be THE GUY....but i'm not buying it.
He hasn't done anything enough to warrant a 1st rd pick....nada.
If you're gonna do that then why not just draft a QB like Gabbert or Newton at #5 ?......because these guys have a higher ceiling then Kevin Kolb ever had.

 

[Stout]

No. Ours is too high. If we were coming off the SB year, then sure.

 

[Garthshort]

If he was in this year's class, or at least being compared to Newton and Gabbert, he probably is. But I wouldn't spend a first on any of them, and would take the best defensive player, and maybe trade a second or third for a QB (Palmer or Orton).

 

[lobo]

Yes. He has the pedigree of A.J. Feeley and Donovan McNabb, both of whom were super-successful after leaving Andy Reid's notoriously QB-friendly offense.

Just a quickie before work starts...what is a notoriously QB friendly offense??
Is this something you would like to see Cards have?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I still say give a 1st rounder in 2012 for him. He's already light years ahead of Gabbert or Newton,he has a solid reputation as a hard worker, and he has had success stepping into the starting role when he was needed. If you'd put today's KK in the draft, he'd be the unquestioned #1 pick. I still wouldn't give the #5 pick for him( i know that contradicts what i just said but he doesn't have that value NFL trade-wise) but i also wouldn't use the 5th on Gabbert or Newton.

Why would the Cards consider Alex Smith? That would be typical, bring in proven scrub and hope he plays at a level he has never reached before in his NFL career. The difference between him and Kolb is that he has had the chance and shown to be a bottom 6 QB in the league.

 

[Cardiac]

Hasn't Mike Mayock stated that Gabbert has the same talent as Matt Ryan and close to Bradford. I'm sure that above needs some correction but the point is Mayock has an extreme eye for talent, especially at the QB position. I understand some peoples concerns about his lack of avg yards per completion but some things are system related.

The Alex Smith comparison to Kolb is based on career stats, they are very close.

K9 is right that AJ Feeley is an example of what Kolb may be. There is another QB that escapes me right now that fits into that scenario. I'm not sure McNabb does fit because he was not a pretender like Kolb may be and Feeley was. I think his career is winding down and he went to a team with basically no talent on the offense. New system, no talent and emotionaly drained from being traded by his mentor Reid.

Lobo had a question that has been in the back of my mind for some time; what is a QB friendly offense. I understand that is has a bunch of 3 step drops with quick reads due to scheme and formation but it has to be more then that.

Anyway I'm not excited about Kolb and expecially for the #5 pick in this draft. Having said that if we do make the trade then I will be thrillled because Whiz and company believe in him. Queue K9 and Max Hall rant

 

[BurqueCardFan]

To me, Kevin Kolb is no different than Matt Schaub when he was traded. IMO that should be the benchmark of value because Schaub has turned out to be a good to great QB. I went back and looked at that deal. Atlanta and Houston swapped number 1's (ATL #8 & HOU #10) and Houston gave Atlanta a #2 that year and a #2 the following year.
This year, our #1 is much higher than Philly's (#23), so it should not take as much as Houston had to give.
Now I'm not exactly sure how the trade value chart works, but would you make the trade for Kolb if we swapped #1's with Philly and only had to give up an additional 2nd or 3rd rounder next year?
This would allow us to still have a pick in every round this year, not have to give up any 1st rounders and get Kolb.

 

[kerouac9]

Hasn't Mike Mayock stated that Gabbert has the same talent as Matt Ryan and close to Bradford. I'm sure that above needs some correction but the point is Mayock has an extreme eye for talent, especially at the QB position. I understand some peoples concerns about his lack of avg yards per completion but some things are system related.

The Alex Smith comparison to Kolb is based on career stats, they are very close.

K9 is right that AJ Feeley is an example of what Kolb may be. There is another QB that escapes me right now that fits into that scenario. I'm not sure McNabb does fit because he was not a pretender like Kolb may be and Feeley was. I think his career is winding down and he went to a team with basically no talent on the offense. New system, no talent and emotionaly drained from being traded by his mentor Reid.

Lobo had a question that has been in the back of my mind for some time; what is a QB friendly offense. I understand that is has a bunch of 3 step drops with quick reads due to scheme and formation but it has to be more then that.

Anyway I'm not excited about Kolb and expecially for the #5 pick in this draft. Having said that if we do make the trade then I will be thrillled because Whiz and company believe in him. Queue K9 and Max Hall rant

Alex Smith's stats the last two years are far superior to Kevin Kolb's. Even with being yanked in and out of the lineup the last two seasons, Smith's QB rating was in the mid-80s. Take away Smith's terrible first two seasons in the NFL, and Alex Smith is a better QB than Kevin Kolb.

A QB-friendly offense is one where the drops are short and you're not exposing yourself to a lot of turnovers, because the ball gets out so quickly. It's much less likely that the ball is going to get picked or knocked down if it's only going 8 yds downfield than 15 or 20. Reid's WCO is QB-friendly because it limits the QB's exposure to big hits (shallower dropbacks mean fewer hits) and increases the QB's completion % because the passes go less distance.

 

[JeffGollin]

No I don't think Kolb is worth a 1st round pick/certainly not a #5.

Am I a better evaluator of talent than Andy Reid? Mmmm....no!

But from what I've seen, I just don't think Kolb is all that elite. To me, he's always projected as a potentially good system QB.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I midly suspect that if Reid insists on a first round pick for Kolb, he'll be holding a clipboard in Philly, and be a FA in 2012.

 

[DoTheDew]

No I don't think Kolb is worth a 1st round pick/certainly not a #5.

Am I a better evaluator of talent than Andy Reid? Mmmm....no!

But from what I've seen, I just don't think Kolb is all that elite. To me, he's always projected as a potentially good system QB.

You're also not the one on the receiving end of the pick. Reid is trying to haggle the most value out of a guy whom he obviously doesn't want as his QBOF (or he wouldn't be shopping him). Vick isn't young he's not the QBOF.

 

[az jam]

I would prefer to keep all our draft picks. I would sign Bulger and take a qb on round 2 like Ponder or Mallett. We would than have Bulger as the starter and Ponder/Mallet and Skelton as backups. With our 5th pick I would draft OLB Von Miller or CB Petterson if Miller is gone.

 

[Duckjake]

I would prefer to keep all our draft picks. I would sign Bulger and take a qb on round 2 like Ponder or Mallett. We would than have Bulger as the starter and Ponder/Mallet and Skelton as backups. With our 5th pick I would draft OLB Von Miller or CB Petterson if Miller is gone.

Just curious. Why would you want Bulger? He hasn't had a decent season since 2006.

Even while Warner was going through his down years he still had completion % of over 60 every year but one (when he only played 2 games) and only threw more INTs than TD passes once.

Bulger had been under 60% with more INTs than TDs for three straight years before not playing at all in Baltimore. (27TDs and 34 INTs 2007-2010)

Why wouldn't McNabb be a better choice? Only 6 months older than Bulger and has been over 60% 3 of the last 4 years with 78TDs to 43INTs. Is it the offense that CKW runs that makes the difference?

 

[az jam]

Just curious. Why would you want Bulger? He hasn't had a decent season since 2006.

Even while Warner was going through his down years he still had completion % of over 60 every year but one (when he only played 2 games) and only threw more INTs than TD passes once.

Bulger had been under 60% with more INTs than TDs for three straight years before not playing at all in Baltimore. (27TDs and 34 INTs 2007-2010)

Why wouldn't McNabb be a better choice? Only 6 months older than Bulger and has been over 60% 3 of the last 4 years with 78TDs to 43INTs. Is it the offense that CKW runs that makes the difference?

Would not be against going after McNab but feel that he may be finished. Not crazy about any of the qbs available. Guess I favor Bulger becasue of Warner's recommendation on him and how he would lead our offense.

 

[kerouac9]

Just curious. Why would you want Bulger? He hasn't had a decent season since 2006.

Even while Warner was going through his down years he still had completion % of over 60 every year but one (when he only played 2 games) and only threw more INTs than TD passes once.

Bulger had been under 60% with more INTs than TDs for three straight years before not playing at all in Baltimore. (27TDs and 34 INTs 2007-2010)

Why wouldn't McNabb be a better choice? Only 6 months older than Bulger and has been over 60% 3 of the last 4 years with 78TDs to 43INTs. Is it the offense that CKW runs that makes the difference?

I'll answer this question, although you didn't ask me.

Are any of the available QBs going to lead us to the Super Bowl? I don't think so; if they could, they wouldn't be available. So then it comes down to the issue of cost? McNabb, Orton, and Kolb are going to cost money plus draft picks. Alex Smith and Marc Bulger are going to cost only money.

I'd prefer Alex Smith, as I've said many times. If Smith is not available, I'd prefer Bulger, because I think that Bulger can turn in a Matt Hasselback 2010 performance, which might be enough to get us back to the playoffs and a 2011 NFC West Championship.

The coaching staff doesn't like Donnie McNabb; that's been made clear. I don't think it's a good idea to give our staff another QB that they don't want to play with. Also, McNabb was awful in Mike Shanahan's offense last year; I think that McNabb thinks he's better than he is right now.

Bulger isn't a good NFL quarterback right now, but he might be good enough to win the NFC West in 2011 while we figure out what to do with the quarterback situation in 2011 and beyond. IMO, you don't turn your back on divisional championships.

My fear is that the front office is talking itself into John Skelton as the future for the franchise despite the obvious (to me) evidence that he's not going to be more than a spot starter and #2 QB.

 

[desertdawg]

Yes. Just not the 5th overall.

+1

 

[Crazy Canuck]

My fear is that the front office is talking itself into John Skelton as the future for the franchise despite the obvious (to me) evidence that he's not going to be more than a spot starter and #2 QB.

If this be true, then "my fear" is that the face of the franchise will be headed to greener pastures in the not too distant. We'll see, but I have to believe that the mutual commitment with Fitz involves more than the hope that Skelton pans out.