Is Kevin Kolb worth a first round pick?

[Stout]

I still say give a 1st rounder in 2012 for him. He's already light years ahead of Gabbert or Newton,he has a solid reputation as a hard worker, and he has had success stepping into the starting role when he was needed. If you'd put today's KK in the draft, he'd be the unquestioned #1 pick. I still wouldn't give the #5 pick for him( i know that contradicts what i just said but he doesn't have that value NFL trade-wise) but i also wouldn't use the 5th on Gabbert or Newton.

Why would the Cards consider Alex Smith? That would be typical, bring in proven scrub and hope he plays at a level he has never reached before in his NFL career. The difference between him and Kolb is that he has had the chance and shown to be a bottom 6 QB in the league.

Because he'd excel in our offense, IMO. The 49ers were a running team with a '4 wides, throw it around' type of QB. He never fit there and it was glaringly obvious. He was also always looking over his shoulder constantly. I think he'd fit well with us, though. Want to throw the ball 40 times a game? I think he'd be fine with that.

 

[Duckjake]

I'll answer this question, although you didn't ask me.

Are any of the available QBs going to lead us to the Super Bowl? I don't think so; if they could, they wouldn't be available. So then it comes down to the issue of cost? McNabb, Orton, and Kolb are going to cost money plus draft picks. Alex Smith and Marc Bulger are going to cost only money.

I'd prefer Alex Smith, as I've said many times. If Smith is not available, I'd prefer Bulger, because I think that Bulger can turn in a Matt Hasselback 2010 performance, which might be enough to get us back to the playoffs and a 2011 NFC West Championship.

The coaching staff doesn't like Donnie McNabb; that's been made clear. I don't think it's a good idea to give our staff another QB that they don't want to play with. Also, McNabb was awful in Mike Shanahan's offense last year; I think that McNabb thinks he's better than he is right now.

Bulger isn't a good NFL quarterback right now, but he might be good enough to win the NFC West in 2011 while we figure out what to do with the quarterback situation in 2011 and beyond. IMO, you don't turn your back on divisional championships.

My fear is that the front office is talking itself into John Skelton as the future for the franchise despite the obvious (to me) evidence that he's not going to be more than a spot starter and #2 QB.

I just don't see that. Didn't play last season and 3 straight sub par years. Plus his last full season (2008) with the Rams was worse than McNabb's awful year with Shanahan.

Could we win the Division with a 57.4% completion rate and 11TDs with 14 INTs from our QB with our running game and Defense? I don't know.

But then we were two blown leads, Tampa and Minny, from going into the 4and9er game with a chance to win the Division at 8-8 with our QBs at 50.8% 10 and 19.

As for Skelator: 3 years $1.4 Million. Newton or Gabbert 6 years $50 million.
I think you are right on the Cards picking Skelator to be the future at QB.

 

[dogpoo32]

Not a first. Please God don't let us give up the #5 for Kolb.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I'll answer this question, although you didn't ask me.

Are any of the available QBs going to lead us to the Super Bowl? I don't think so; if they could, they wouldn't be available. So then it comes down to the issue of cost? McNabb, Orton, and Kolb are going to cost money plus draft picks. Alex Smith and Marc Bulger are going to cost only money.

I'd prefer Alex Smith, as I've said many times. If Smith is not available, I'd prefer Bulger, because I think that Bulger can turn in a Matt Hasselback 2010 performance, which might be enough to get us back to the playoffs and a 2011 NFC West Championship.

The coaching staff doesn't like Donnie McNabb; that's been made clear. I don't think it's a good idea to give our staff another QB that they don't want to play with. Also, McNabb was awful in Mike Shanahan's offense last year; I think that McNabb thinks he's better than he is right now.

Bulger isn't a good NFL quarterback right now, but he might be good enough to win the NFC West in 2011 while we figure out what to do with the quarterback situation in 2011 and beyond. IMO, you don't turn your back on divisional championships.

My fear is that the front office is talking itself into John Skelton as the future for the franchise despite the obvious (to me) evidence that he's not going to be more than a spot starter and #2 QB.

Agree with all of this, but still believe that McNabb is a better option than Bulger. While McNabb had a subpar year last year, and his conditioning leaves much to be desired, he put a hell of a scare into us a couple years back, and is not far removed from being a very good QB. Perhaps chucking it up to Fitz and (Breaston?) can revive his career. He's also shown an ability to scramble, which is pretty important considering our current line. Unfortunately, it'll all be moot as the FO has consistently said they want Bulger and don't want McNabb.

 

[john h]

Some team is reportedly offering a first round pick for Kevin Kolb. It is apparently not the Cardinals or the 49ers. Anyway there is a rundown on the Cardinals as viewed by Peter King of SI in Kent Somers blog dated 3-21-11 at azcentral.



I'd like the Cardinals to give Alex Smith a look.

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/KentSomers/122892

Perhaps the Cards could offer their high second round pick and a 5th round pick or some pick next year. That is if they really are that high on Palmer. In any event they should be talking to the Eagles NOW. When the signing begins it will be fast and furious for those seeking the best QBs available. Those teams that are slow to pull the trigger will end up with guys like Anderson. We are not known for making fast decisions. We have all the time in the world to be doing our homework now and will have no excuse to not have the exact QB in mind we want and also a second if we cannot deal for our first choice. Signing a QB is the most important thing this team can do to be an actual participant in making the playoffs. It is more important than our first round pick if you want to not finish last in our division. If we can indeed talk to the agents as I read I see no reason a deal cannot be struck already and when the league and players reach an agreement go ahead and sign the contract. If this is the case some of these FA may already have deals in waiting. I do not know if this is the case with players under contract???

 

[az jam]

Bulger isn't a good NFL quarterback right now, but he might be good enough to win the NFC West in 2011 while we figure out what to do with the quarterback situation in 2011 and beyond. IMO, you don't turn your back on divisional championships.

I guess I pretty much agree with you especially on the fact that the cupboard is pretty bare on quality available qbs. I like signing Bulger and draft a qb to develop. I do think that is what the Cards most likely will do but

 

[john h]

No I don't think Kolb is worth a 1st round pick/certainly not a #5.

Am I a better evaluator of talent than Andy Reid? Mmmm....no!

But from what I've seen, I just don't think Kolb is all that elite. To me, he's always projected as a potentially good system QB.

Kolb is like drafting a Newton or Gabbert. You really do not know all that much about his ability. These QBs that have played as starters before we know something about. Who would I rather have Kolb, Newton, or Gabbert? I do not think any of the three are starters out of the gate due to a lack of NFL experience. Kolb is going to cost a high draft choice so without a doubt I would take Gabbert or Newton. If for no other reason than losing a high draft pick. Kolb is almost as much a rookie and gamble as are Newton and Gabbert.

I am still of the opinion we should draft Gabbert or Newton with our number 5 pick and sign the best QB in FA we can. If Gabbert or Newton develop then we are set for some years to come. At some point a team needs to draft and develop a QB. What better time than now we we should be in a position to take one of the top two QBs. A gamble yes as are all QB drafts.

With a high second and third round picks we can likely fill any need that we would have used with our #5 pick. Our second round pick is still a player who is in the top 40 of all players in the draft. Our pick may not be one of the real high profile guys but should still be a starter this year if we are smart (if there is a this year).

The Eagles have done a great job of making Kolb seem like a QBOTF. We should not be fooled by talk and hype. If he is all that great he should have been playing on a regular basis. I think Orton is out of the mix as his coach clearly said he is our starter this year. Seattle coach has said they want to resign Hasselback so he may or may not be available. He could be a starter for us for a year I would think. The guy is NFL smart. I like McNabb but he is going to cost more than our owners are likely to pay and will want a longer contract than we are likely to offer. Palmer would probably cost us more than we want to pay even if he were available. There are only a few others for us to consider and there will be other teams after them. We will see just how smart our front office (Graves) and Whiz are. I do not have much faith in Graves. I suspect he has to run it all by Mr B and Mr. B Jr which is one of the reasons we are slow to react. Mr. B probably wants to think it over for a few days while he fiddles and Rome burns.

 

[AZCARDSFANATIC]

Kolb is not worth a first rounder, there is a reason Reid is trying to trade him, poor bastard. Honestly if we can't get Palmer for a 2nd rounder then I say go with Skelton, who has been compared to both Flacco and Big Ben in college(not bad). An off season to work with Fitz, and the crew and try like heck to improve our Oline would increase his survivability greatly. If he stinks then, we are in the Andrew Luck lottery next year. Sign a vet to back him up, but someone we trust. Kerry Collins comes to mind. PLEASE DO NOT TRADE FOR KOLB, unless it's a 3rd rounder.

 

[Zeno]

A first rounder is too much, but I wouldn't be shocked if they received a second rounder and a later round pick. He was originally a second round pick and they won't accept less than that especially with his preceived development.

 

[john h]

Some team is reportedly offering a first round pick for Kevin Kolb. It is apparently not the Cardinals or the 49ers. Anyway there is a rundown on the Cardinals as viewed by Peter King of SI in Kent Somers blog dated 3-21-11 at azcentral.



I'd like the Cardinals to give Alex Smith a look.

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/KentSomers/122892

IMHO Kevin Kolb is absolutely not worth a first round pick. The analogy here is would you rather have Kolb than Newton or Gabbert and at the same time lose one of your top draft choices. I would take Newton or Gabbert over Kolb because I think they have more upside. The fact you do not lose a draft choice is just gravy.

From the articles I have read in the past few days about nearly all the Cardinal staff and top officers having dinner with Gabbert and watching him tells me that he will be our #1 pick if he is available. If he is not available then I do not know. Perhaps Newton? The fact remains that a QB is the most important need for the Cards. Not just this year but for year to come. There is no QBOTF we can sign. The QB's that will be available are not great but some are serviceable. I like the old Seattle QB if we can by chance get him. He seems perfect for our situation. I think we could safely sign him to a 2 yr or perhaps even a 3 yr (stretch) contract depending on how he check out with the Doctors. He could possible be our Kurt Warner for 2 years. I would guess he would like to remain in a division he knows and would likely be a starter. He has shown playoff ability in the past. We would need to act fast as there will be other teams very eager to sign him. No messing around like last year when we were left with Anderson.

One might also view this as a ploy on the Cards part to make some team to take Gabbert leaving the guy the Cards really want to be available. This is all a stretch of my imagination of course. The Cards are not the type of team to spend the money to all travel out and meet with Gabbert as a ploy. They are also not smart enough to do such things. Mr. B is the kind of guy to do things straight up and not play games.

Gabbert has been my number one pick for about two months now and I am unlikely to change my mind. He seems to have it all. Size, arm, pro set experience, and many of the guys who really analyze these guys predict him as the most likely to succeed in the NFL.

OK! give me your best shots as to why I am an idiot.

 

[john h]

Either it's the Vikes offering a 1st rounder to the Iggles or Reid is just bluffing all potential trade partners with his comments. I'm not touching Kolb with a 1st...

My guess would be that only a team way down near the bottom of the draft list would offer a first round pick. This could all be not true and just another rumor to drum up more offers. He is basically a rookie and getting him would be no better than taking a QB in the first round. Is he better than Gabbert or Newton? Does he have more upside? If he appears really good why would the Skins trade away such a player? Clearly they do not see him in their future. I go with Gabbert and not lose a draft choice or even Newton. If we got him we are saying he would likely be our starter not only this year but our QBOTF. He does not have the experience to be our starter if we want to make the playoffs and I do not think he is a QBOTF.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Because he'd excel in our offense, IMO. The 49ers were a running team with a '4 wides, throw it around' type of QB. He never fit there and it was glaringly obvious. He was also always looking over his shoulder constantly. I think he'd fit well with us, though. Want to throw the ball 40 times a game? I think he'd be fine with that.

I don't think there is any offense Alex Smith would excel in. He's been with 5, or so, different OC's and stunk with all of them. Why would he come here and magically become a good QB? At least Bulger, who I don't want either, has had some success. People use him having 5 different OC's as an excuse for him not becoming a good QB. I say if he was a good QB, he wouldn't have gone through 5 OC's with no, or very limited, success. Also, a confident QB isn't always looking over his shoulder. He takes the job and runs with it. Look what Warner did when he was given the chance.

 

[kerouac9]

I don't think there is any offense Alex Smith would excel in. He's been with 5, or so, different OC's and stunk with all of them. Why would he come here and magically become a good QB? At least Bulger, who I don't want either, has had some success. People use him having 5 different OC's as an excuse for him not becoming a good QB. I say if he was a good QB, he wouldn't have gone through 5 OC's with no, or very limited, success. Also, a confident QB isn't always looking over his shoulder. He takes the job and runs with it. Look what Warner did when he was given the chance.

Have you even watched Alex Smith play except for his rookie season and against the Cards? In the seasons where he's played in 10 or more games, he's completed over 58% of his passes every time and has never had a YPA under 6. Take away his horrid rookie season when he shouldn't have been starting, and his TD-INT ratio is 50-42. The last two years he's completed 60% of his passes while being yanked back and forth from the starting job by one of the most incompetent coaching regimes in NFL history.

When Alex Smith had legit coaching with Norv Turner, he was good. Super Bowl Champion HC Mike McCarthy obviously liked him enough to recommend he be drafted #1 overall (ahead of Aaron Rodgers).

Kurt Warner had no competition for the job his first season as a starter because the #1 guy had his knee exploded. Give me a break.

 

[Stout]

I don't think there is any offense Alex Smith would excel in. He's been with 5, or so, different OC's and stunk with all of them. Why would he come here and magically become a good QB? At least Bulger, who I don't want either, has had some success. People use him having 5 different OC's as an excuse for him not becoming a good QB. I say if he was a good QB, he wouldn't have gone through 5 OC's with no, or very limited, success. Also, a confident QB isn't always looking over his shoulder. He takes the job and runs with it. Look what Warner did when he was given the chance.

I think that says a lot right there. He was forced to start when he wasn't ready, he's had countless head coaches and OCs, his job is never safe...the list goes on. None of that lends to QB success or development. Given all that, whenever the 49ers went to the pass-first offense (as they so rarely did), he did pretty well.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Have you even watched Alex Smith play except for his rookie season and against the Cards? In the seasons where he's played in 10 or more games, he's completed over 58% of his passes every time and has never had a YPA under 6. Take away his horrid rookie season when he shouldn't have been starting, and his TD-INT ratio is 50-42. The last two years he's completed 60% of his passes while being yanked back and forth from the starting job by one of the most incompetent coaching regimes in NFL history.

When Alex Smith had legit coaching with Norv Turner, he was good. Super Bowl Champion HC Mike McCarthy obviously liked him enough to recommend he be drafted #1 overall (ahead of Aaron Rodgers).

Kurt Warner had no competition for the job his first season as a starter because the #1 guy had his knee exploded. Give me a break.

I was talking about when Warner got his chance in Arizona, and yes, I've watched plenty of Alex Smith to know he stinks. I heard Takeo Spikes on TV today and he said nothing good about Alex Smith. Basically said they needed someone they can count on at the QB position. You can throw all the stats you want, and eliminate the ones you don't, Alex Smith is a bad QB. Does it really matter 5 years ago what McCarthy thought about Smith? Bill Walsh said Plummer was the next Montana, how'd that turn out?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

FWIW, Rich Gannon was on the radio yesterday saying he thought the Cards should trade the #5 pick for Kolb. I don't agree but he gave good reasons and offered Cards fans to call in and debate him.

He said even if the Cards drafted Gabbert/Newton would us, as Cards fans, think the QB position was solved. He mentioned that Kolb was a hard worker, a coahces son that will pick up an offense quickly, has an excellent reputation among coaches and scouts, and think he's going to excel when given the starting job. I can see his points and ,like I mentioned in another thread, if you put Kolb in this draft, he'd be the likely #1 overall pick. Using that theory, why not trade the #5 pick for him? Again, I don't advocate it because that's not how the NFL works, trade value wise, but I can see making the argument. I'm all for giving a 2012 #1 pick though.

 

[FrustratedFan04]

No.

 

[kerouac9]

I was talking about when Warner got his chance in Arizona, and yes, I've watched plenty of Alex Smith to know he stinks. I heard Takeo Spikes on TV today and he said nothing good about Alex Smith. Basically said they needed someone they can count on at the QB position. You can throw all the stats you want, and eliminate the ones you don't, Alex Smith is a bad QB. Does it really matter 5 years ago what McCarthy thought about Smith? Bill Walsh said Plummer was the next Montana, how'd that turn out?

What are the stats that say that he "stinks"? Mediocre I understand. He's probably not going to take a team to the Super Bowl. But "stinks"?

Derek Anderson stinks. Max Hall stinks. Alex Smith isn't even in the same galaxy as those two.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

What are the stats that say that he "stinks"? Mediocre I understand. He's probably not going to take a team to the Super Bowl. But "stinks"?

Derek Anderson stinks. Max Hall stinks. Alex Smith isn't even in the same galaxy as those two.

if you're using the Max Hall/Derek Anderson scale, then just about any breathing QB is an upgrade. That doesn't mean they are good NFL QB's, which Smith is not.

 

[kerouac9]

if you're using the Max Hall/Derek Anderson scale, then just about any breathing QB is an upgrade. That doesn't mean they are good NFL QB's, which Smith is not.

So Alex Smith is a clear upgrade over what we have. Is he better than Marc Bulger?

 

[Duckjake]

So Alex Smith is a clear upgrade over what we have. Is he better than Marc Bulger?

I'd say so. Again. Bulger's last even decent season was in 2006. Unless he's been working out with Ponce Deleon he'll be nothing more than DeWreck Anderson Part II.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

So Alex Smith is a clear upgrade over what we have. Is he better than Marc Bulger?

David Carr is a clear upgrade over what we have too. I don't want Bulger or Smith. If I had to choose between the two, I would take Bulger only because he has proven he can win in the league and has had some degree of success. If I'm the Cards my pecking order is:
Palmer
Kolb
Orton
once you get past those 3, I'd just as soon go with a rookie or Skelton because,whoever it is, is a stop gap at best, and not a good one at that.

 

[lobo]

David Carr is a clear upgrade over what we have too. I don't want Bulger or Smith. If I had to choose between the two, I would take Bulger only because he has proven he can win in the league and has had some degree of success. If I'm the Cards my pecking order is:
Palmer
Kolb
Orton
once you get past those 3, I'd just as soon go with a rookie or Skelton because,whoever it is, is a stop gap at best, and not a good one at that.

You can stop pecking after KK. No possible way Fox/Elway are going to put themselves in the same position...just about..as Cards are with three guys who are third stringers. With a guy like Fox, Orton will keep Denver in games and put up some respectable numbers. I like Orton a whole lot, but also know it is a WD to think he is on the block.

 

[kerouac9]

David Carr is a clear upgrade over what we have too. I don't want Bulger or Smith. If I had to choose between the two, I would take Bulger only because he has proven he can win in the league and has had some degree of success. If I'm the Cards my pecking order is:
Palmer
Kolb
Orton
once you get past those 3, I'd just as soon go with a rookie or Skelton because,whoever it is, is a stop gap at best, and not a good one at that.

How are Carson Palmer or Kyle Orton any more of a stopgap than Alex Smith, except that both of those are going to cost draft picks in addition to new contracts?

You know that David Carr's last half-decent season was FIVE years ago, and
his BEST season with Houston wasn't as good as Alex Smith was the last two years?

I'm not trying to sell you that Alex Smith is the future for the franchise, but he's not worse than Orton or Palmer (and he's almost certainly better than Palmer) and won't cost future considerations.

P.S.

Don't tell anyone, but Kevin Kolb's 2010 QB rating was 10 points lower than Alex Smith's. Shhhh... I don't want to wake up the dreams of rainbows and unicorns that people are having with Kevin Kolb. It's not like Kolb was handed the keys to a Ferrari with Philly's offense--the one he's had three years to master--and drove it directly into a ditch.

 

[Shane]

but he's not worse than Orton or Palmer (and he's almost certainly better than Palmer) and won't cost future considerations.

.

Did you type that with a straight face?