Is Levi Brown @ #5 a reach?

[lobo]

For the Cardinals Brown is not a reach at all. He is the second best tackle on the board and a whole lot closer to Thomas than some of the posters might believe.

The adjustment to LT will not be "rocket surgery"

I am now very nervous about Thomas being gone to Detroit, yes Detroit if Johnson goes to Oakland, or to Tampa Bay as they need a OT as well. The teams that should be taking QB's, Detroit/Cleveland may not do so and that will screw us up if Thomas is the man.

 

[joeshmo]

Maybe the Falcons will want to get ahead of the Redskins for Landry. NFL network said the front office wants Thomas and the coaching staff loves Brown. Which probably means we will pick Patrick Willis. Todd Mcshay laughed at the thought of the Cardinals even considering taking Brown over Thomas

If Wiz wants Joe Thomas, IMO Graves will give him Joe Thomas. Although Graves says he has more control and will take more control I still think Graves is very much a coaches GM.

Also the FO wants Brown but who do the scouts want?

 

[football karma]

in a word.. yes..

If we are dead set on taking Brown trade down to #8 pick up an extra 2nd or 3rd rounder.... and then take Brown..

It makes no sense to take Brown at 5... IMO

What if nobody offers? Not only a possibility, but a likelihood.

 

[daytripper]

My two pesos
Stay at #5. if Thomas there take him if not take AP.
Then ride the elevator down to Buffalo with AP aboard. If Levi is still there swap AP for the Bills pick and their second or third, however that value shakes out. Then pick up Levi and head down to the bargain basement with two second( or third) rounders.
If Levi is gone, two options remain. keep AP or trade AP for a top 15 slot and more picks.

And if this happens pigs WILL fly!!!!!!

 

[JeffGollin]

Oh yeah, a source close to the Cardinals told me that the Cards really don't like Thomas, and they might not draft him if they decide to draft someone else.

Cute. You got me at first on that one.

 

[cardsfanmd]

If Brown gets by Miami's pick then he'll most likely slide down to at least 14-15 range where Carolina and Pittsburgh pick. I could easily see him being there at 20. Just go back to last year with Justice going from top 10 to top ten in round 2. To answer your question,YES, Brown is a reach at 5.

I was under the impression that Justice fell due to character issues.

 

[cardsfanmd]

We reached with Swann and Boldin.

 

[JC_AZ]

I disagree.

I've seen this a lot on here: "playerX isn't a reach if that's who the Cards want."

That's only true if the Cardinals were infallible. We know they're far from it.

Since when?

 

[Mitch]

Levi Brown is a top ten pick...it really makes no difference really if he's taken at #5, #6, #7, #8, #9 or #10.

Given the Cardinals' need for an offensive tackle, no one could argue with the Cards taking Levi Brown at #5.

The only argument would be if the Cardinals take Levi Brown over Joe Thomas, if they both are sitting there at #5.

The other thing is: it's not a given that the Cardinals will be able to trade down to the #7 or #8 spot. Teams in those slots stayed put last year and it's more than likely they will stay put again this year.

The one window I see is with Atlanta at #8...because, if, for example, they are enamored with S LaRon Landry, they may feel that in order to get him they will need to trade in front of Washington...who some consider locked in on Landry as well.

The trades that more than likely will be available to the Cardinals will be with teams below #10...and, of course, that puts the Cards in a real dilemma, especially if they are determined to take Thomas or Brown. But, the extra picks will be enticing for a team with several needs and a relatively low number of picks.

 

[Pariah]

Levi Brown is a top ten pick...it really makes no difference really if he's taken at #5, #6, #7, #8, #9 or #10.

Given the Cardinals' need for an offensive tackle, no one could argue with the Cards taking Levi Brown at #5.

I think there'd be plenty of argument, and rightfully so, if Thomas is on the board.

THAT'S when the pick becomes a reach--when you pass on other players of greater talent. With that in mind, I would also consider Brown a reach if Peterson was on the board. In that case it'd be a classic case of reaching to fill a need and passing up better players to that end.

That said, if Thomas and Peterson are off the board, I'm okay with reaching a little for Brown (I still consider this a "reach" because Landry is a superior football player to Brown, IMO).

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Levi Brown is a top ten pick...it really makes no difference really if he's taken at #5, #6, #7, #8, #9 or #10.

Given the Cardinals' need for an offensive tackle, no one could argue with the Cards taking Levi Brown at #5.

The only argument would be if the Cardinals take Levi Brown over Joe Thomas, if they both are sitting there at #5.

The other thing is: it's not a given that the Cardinals will be able to trade down to the #7 or #8 spot. Teams in those slots stayed put last year and it's more than likely they will stay put again this year.

The one window I see is with Atlanta at #8...because, if, for example, they are enamored with S LaRon Landry, they may feel that in order to get him they will need to trade in front of Washington...who some consider locked in on Landry as well.

The trades that more than likely will be available to the Cardinals will be with teams below #10...and, of course, that puts the Cards in a real dilemma, especially if they are determined to take Thomas or Brown. But, the extra picks will be enticing for a team with several needs and a relatively low number of picks.

Completely disagree. The difference between the #5 and the #10's value is a 2nd round pick. There is a HUGE difference. In the 4th round for example, the difference between 5 picks in minimal to none.

You don't honestly believe there is no difference drafting between #5 and #10, do you?

 

[Pariah]

You don't honestly believe there is no difference drafting between #5 and #10, do you?

Depends on who's there.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Depends on who's there.

DCR can see that. But if you don't feel that there is a difference, then you need to trade down. It's as simple as that.

 

[Pariah]

DCR can see that. But if you don't feel that there is a difference, then you need to trade down. It's as simple as that.

If there's no discernible difference in value, DCR might have trouble finding a tango partner.

 

[kerouac9]

If Wiz wants Joe Thomas, IMO Graves will give him Joe Thomas. Although Graves says he has more control and will take more control I still think Graves is very much a coaches GM.

Also the FO wants Brown but who do the scouts want?

The report is that scouts like Thomas because he's a complete package, NFL ready. Consistent every time. The report is that position coaches like Brown more because he's more of a physical specimen, but they don't see all the games or all the downs and don't see that Brown brings it 100%.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

If there's no discernible difference in value, DCR might have trouble finding a tango partner.

Maybe DCR doesn't see a difference, but one of their trading partners does.

 

[Pariah]

Maybe DCR doesn't see a difference, but one of their trading partners does.

Maybe.

 

[Southpaw]

Per Ben Maller
http://www.benmaller.com/nfl_rumors_notes

The Cardinals want to trade down from the fifth overall pick in this weekend's draft, yet that's not likely to happen. Detroit, at No. 2, wants to trade down. Cleveland, at No. 3, is open to it, also. Go down the list, and there probably isn't a team in the top 10 that wouldn't consider trading down for the right mix of draft picks. ... There have been reports that the Cardinals like Penn State offensive tackle Levi Brown more than Joe Thomas. But according to some "experts," taking Brown as high as fifth would be a reach. That supposedly is part of what is motivating the Cardinals to trade down.

 

[Mitch]

You guys are so stuck on what the so-called experts say...

Let me remind you that these so-called experts, like Kiper and McShay never played pro football, nor did they ever coach. They are draft geeks.

 

[lobo]

Cute. You got me at first on that one.

I read that several times and I swear it was said by Yogi Berra. I don't get it.

 

[joeshmo]

You guys are so stuck on what the so-called experts say...

Let me remind you that these so-called experts, like Kiper and McShay never played pro football, nor did they ever coach. They are draft geeks.

Do you have to be a player or coach to be a good talent evaluator?

And I dont think they are stuck becauase of what the so called experts are saying, they are stuck because our scouting department and Wiz think Thomas is better as well, according to the reports. People also trust their eyes and playing for Penn and Wis. are 2 easily watched teams as both play on national TV many times. They trust their college playing career rather then basing 75% of what they think about players on 1 senior bowl week. If even just one of Baker or Long was in this draft Brown wouldnt even be talked about by anyone as a even top 15 pick IMO. If both came out I think we would be talking about getting lucky in getting him in the 2nd as this point in time right now.

 

[Mitch]

Do you have to be a player or coach to be a good talent evaluator?

And I dont think they are stuck becauase of what the so called experts are saying, they are stuck because our scouting department and Wiz think Thomas is better as well, according to the reports. People also trust their eyes and playing for Penn and Wis. are 2 easily watched teams as both play on national TV many times. They trust their college playing career rather then basing 75% of what they think about players on 1 senior bowl week. If even just one of Baker or Long was in this draft Brown wouldnt even be talked about by anyone as a even top 15 pick IMO. If both came out I think we would be talking about getting lucky in getting him in the 2nd as this point in time right now.

No...not necessarily...but I cannot belive how many fans are so quick to think that Mel Kiper's board is right on the money...it often isn't.

But...Whiz played in this league and he coached for an organization that knows what to look for in the draft...so if he and the crew decide that they like Levi Brown at #5, I am not going to criticize the Cardinals for "reaching" for Brown.

Nor will I criticize them if they take Brown over Thomas...

I saw more than just the Senior Bowl week...and because Whiz has made it clear that his priority is running the football, I saw a far better run blocker in Brown than what I saw in Thomas, which adds credence to the rumors that Russ Grimm, for example, prefers Brown.

If the priority is pass blocking...Thomas comes into the league as one of the best in recent years.

And I would just reiterate that the Cards may not have any offer to move down just a couple of spots, so to worry about reaching for Brown at #5, IMO, is ridiculously moot.

 

[lobo]

I think there'd be plenty of argument, and rightfully so, if Thomas is on the board.


That said, if Thomas and Peterson are off the board, I'm okay with reaching a little for Brown (I still consider this a "reach" because Landry is a superior football player to Brown, IMO).

Assuming your scenario as you wrote is so..and it may possibly turn our that way, you are RG, who would you take at 5 assuming you can't trade down. Landry or Brown? Based on your MO I think I know your answer. I'll save you some key strokes, I think Landry is great and will be or could be all-pro way before Brown would be considered, but I take Brown.

 

[Totally_Red]

The report is that scouts like Thomas because he's a complete package, NFL ready. Consistent every time. The report is that position coaches like Brown more because he's more of a physical specimen, but they don't see all the games or all the downs and don't see that Brown brings it 100%.

Another issue with Brown is "technique." I am worried that he fits Russ Grimm's system, but when Grimm moves on in a year or two and the Cardinals get a new O-line coach, he's gonna be stuck with Brown. If JT is the best overall guy, go with him. Everything I've seen and read indicates Thomas can start from day one. That isn't necessarily true with Levi Brown. He's a second option, but for heaven's sake trade down a couple slots to take him, even if all you get is a 4th-rounder.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Cbus ... PFT must be reading your posts .. they wrote this after you posted ...

If Brown gets by Miami's pick then he'll most likely slide down to at least 14-15 range where Carolina and Pittsburgh pick. I could easily see him being there at 20. Just go back to last year with Justice going from top 10 to top ten in round 2. To answer your question,YES, Brown is a reach at 5.

POSTED 8:36 a.m. EDT; UPDATED 8:55 a.m. EDT, April 27, 2007

LEVI TO SLIDE?

One of the rumors making the rounds with the draft a day away is that Penn State offensive tackle Levi Brown could plunge.

There's a school of thought that, if he gets past the Texans at No. 10 (and there is a strong belief in some circles that the Texans don't want him), Brown could slide deep into the round.

One possible landing spot is No. 20, to the Giants. But as to a recent report in one of the New York papers suggesting that the Giants might be eyeballing Brown because they have called to confirm his draft-day contact information, every team does this with every player in the pool. So that fact in and of itself means nothing.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm​