Is Markieff Morris the Suns MVP?

slinslin

Welcome to Amareca
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Posts
16,855
Reaction score
562
Location
Hannover - Germany
Some of the simpler advanced stats

Net Production (Player production - Match production)

Thomas +10.7
Markieff +4.4
Bledsoe +4.1
Green +2.6
Tucker +1.5
Dragic +0.6

+/-
Markieff +16.8
Tucker +8.3
Thomas +8.0
Green +3.2
Bledsoe +1.0
Dragic -5.0

Some other interesting stats

Isaiah Thomas
opp DFG% 37% (6FGA per game)
opp DFG% 15ft+ 34% (3FGA per game)
opp DFG% 3's 30% (2FGA per game)

Eric Bledsoe
opp DFG% 44% (10FGA per game)
opp DFG% 15ft+ 39% (6FGA per game)
opp DFG% 3's 34% (3FGA per game)

Goran Dragic
opp DFG% 49% (9FGA per game)
opp DFG% 15ft+ 39% (4FGA per game)
opp DFG% 3's 37% (2FGA per game)
 

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
27,541
Reaction score
9,821
Location
L.A. area
From the eye test I'd say it's Green, because for him to play well is most critical to the Suns' success, at least so far.
 

SirStefan32

Krycek, Alex Krycek
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Posts
18,497
Reaction score
4,913
Location
Harrisburg, PA
From the eye test I'd say it's Green, because for him to play well is most critical to the Suns' success, at least so far.

I agree with you, but I do want to acknowledge that Morris has been surprisingly good and consistent this year. He is playing how I would expect someone on his new contract to play.
 

95pro

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 10, 2007
Posts
12,761
Reaction score
4,213
Kieff does what we need him to because there's no one else that is competent enough at that position. PJ, his brother, toliver can't do what he does. defend and consistent scorer at that position.

we don't necessarily need green to be hot to win, but when he's ON we are very tough to beat.
 

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Banned from P+R
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
17,581
Reaction score
12,796
Location
Tempe, AZ
His +/- may be ok but it's not that good, no ones is really. Tucker's is more impressive given that he's missed 4 games so far and is playing fewer minutes than last season. Kieff is not the long term answer at the PF spot and I'm afraid Hornacek & McD have him slotted there for the foreseeable future, unless of course a "star" becomes available. Even if a "star" becomes available we're overpaying backup forwards. Their extensions made it to where they are no longer positive tradable assets to pick up a star in a deal, at least not nearly as good of assets as they were last season or without the extensions. Being on rookie deals and headed for restricted free agency together would have been easy to deal with since they were clear they wanted to stay together which would have scared some teams off from making a sizable offer to just one of them.

Markieff's rebounding leaves a lot to be desired. I'm really surprised he hasn't been called out as much as Channing was last year. It seems the only negatives everyone is calling out is that the 3 PG rotation isn't working that well and also Len should start over Plumlee. Regardless of what was going on with the team, winning or losing, while Channing was our starting PF everyone seemed to harp on his rebounding woes and statistically Markieff isn't really any better. When Amare was here he was also called out by posters for his "horrible" rebounding numbers while averaging 7-8 a game.

Frye averaged 28.4 minutes last year and pulled down 5.1 rpg, Markieff is averaging 30.8 minutes and only getting 6.4 rpg. Kieff is up .4 rpg compared to last season when he played 4.2 fewer minutes. That is a slight improvement over Channing, albeit a small one, but given the increase in playing time and decrease in rebounding by Plumlee and the starting SF position you'd expect it to be better, or at least hope it would be. I don't understand why he hasn't received the criticism that Frye received.

Plumlee is averaging 2.3 rpg less than he did last season (24.6mpg & 11.5rpg last year/23.2mpg & 9.2rpg currently), Tucker hasn't been starting and his rebound are down a little (30.7mpg/6.5rpg last year vs 26mpg & 6rpg currently) and Marcus is averaging the same as last season (22mpg & 3.9rpg vs 24.6mpg & 3.9). So if you look at the front court of the Suns, Markieff really hasn't been an improvement over Frye like some had hoped or expected. Kieff is definitely a more traditional PF than Frye offensively and defensively and he plays inside on offense more than Frye did so that should help with offensive rebounding but it's not.
 

JCSunsfan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Posts
22,115
Reaction score
6,551
From the eye test I'd say it's Green, because for him to play well is most critical to the Suns' success, at least so far.

I agree with you. Green is that enigma. He can put you in a hole. But he seems to be on more often than he is off, and when he is, it is demoralizing to the opposition. He is able to score against very good man defense.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,867
Reaction score
16,668
I agree with you. Green is that enigma. He can put you in a hole. But he seems to be on more often than he is off, and when he is, it is demoralizing to the opposition. He is able to score against very good man defense.

It seems to hinge on whether he feels insulted. A bad call, a cheap foul by the defender etc. and the next thing you know he's the best player in the game. I'm even okay with the "bad shots" he takes except for the possibility that they influence others to do the same. Marcus Morris, for example, needs to be kept on a very tight leash and that might be hard to do when you're letting another hot and cold player force the action.

Steve
 

SirStefan32

Krycek, Alex Krycek
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Posts
18,497
Reaction score
4,913
Location
Harrisburg, PA
I agree with you. Green is that enigma. He can put you in a hole. But he seems to be on more often than he is off, and when he is, it is demoralizing to the opposition. He is able to score against very good man defense.

He has something that no other player on the Suns' roster has- nastiness! Pure and unadulterated nastiness. He will stick the proverbial dagger right in your heart, smile, twist it, and then he'll talk crap letting you know what he just did.

Tucker and Morris have a little bit of that, but Green takes that to the whole new level.
 

BC867

Long time Phoenician!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
17,827
Reaction score
1,709
Location
NE Phoenix
...we don't necessarily need green to be hot to win, but when he's ON we are very tough to beat.
Except for those few games when Dragic and Bledsoe don't take a back seat to each other, I believe that we do need Green to be hot for us to win. Even with IT having been in the same category so far this season.

I would rather have duplication at instant-offense-off-the-bench than the lead Point Guard position.

SirStephan32 said:
He has something that no other player on the Suns' roster has- nastiness! Pure and unadulterated nastiness. He will stick the proverbial dagger right in your heart, smile, twist it, and then he'll talk crap letting you know what he just did.

Tucker and Morris have a little bit of that, but Green takes that to the whole new level.
Absolutely! Every successful team needs an enforcer of some sort. Green does it at the Wing and Tucker at Forward, even when he is playing Small Forward.

I think we have begun to see that, with the game on the line, Green will be at Small Forward, Tucker at Power Forward and Kieff at Center. I didn't say I like it, just that we'll be seeing it a lot.
 

95pro

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 10, 2007
Posts
12,761
Reaction score
4,213
Love that fire green brings as well. Some people here were claiming he was too flamboyant.
 

95pro

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 10, 2007
Posts
12,761
Reaction score
4,213
we beat a solid mavs team with good numbers from dragic and kieff.
 

overseascardfan

ASFN Addict
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Posts
8,807
Reaction score
2,096
Location
Phoenix
Finally...a double digit rebound game for him. I really don't understand why he doesn't average 9 - 10 rebounds per game, he has the size at 6'10 245-250. He is playing an average of 31 mpg so maybe he should be getting more minutes. Is it because he mainly defends the perimeter?
 

SirStefan32

Krycek, Alex Krycek
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Posts
18,497
Reaction score
4,913
Location
Harrisburg, PA
There are only 10 players in the entire league averaging 10 rebounds per game, and six others between 9 and 10.

Only 25 players average more than 8 boards a game.

Expecting Markieff to be in that groups is just not realistic. He is not particularly tall, strong, or athletic, and his arms are not extremely long. I hope I am wrong, but I think Morris is about as good as he is going to get. At his salary, that's just fine.
 

sunsfan88

ASFN Icon
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Posts
11,660
Reaction score
844
Finally...a double digit rebound game for him. I really don't understand why he doesn't average 9 - 10 rebounds per game, he has the size at 6'10 245-250. He is playing an average of 31 mpg so maybe he should be getting more minutes. Is it because he mainly defends the perimeter?

Kieff isn't super athletic or long. That's why.

He still brings a lot other to the table well worth his salary.
 
OP
OP
slinslin

slinslin

Welcome to Amareca
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Posts
16,855
Reaction score
562
Location
Hannover - Germany
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/1/sort/RPM

18. Markieff Morris +4.03
32. Eric Bledsoe +2.64
49. Isaiah Thomas +1.82
129. PJ Tucker +0.07
164. Miles Plumlee -0.39
175. Marcus Morris -0.65
205. Goran Dragic -0.97

Ranked by WAR (Wins Above Replacement)

15. Markieff Morris +2.65
27. Eric Bledsoe +2.14
77. Isaiah Thomas +0.91
106. PJ Tucker +0.7
132. Goran Dragic +0.58
137. Miles Plumlee +0.57
139. Marcus Morris +0.56
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
slinslin

slinslin

Welcome to Amareca
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Posts
16,855
Reaction score
562
Location
Hannover - Germany
I hope I am wrong, but I think Morris is about as good as he is going to get. At his salary, that's just fine.

Yeah he is finished, because he is totally not showing development.

Good thing you are not a talent evaluator according to you Zach LaVine sucks, Shabazz Muhammed sucks.

Yet Lavine is probably the most exciting rookie this year and Muhammad is quietly averaging double digits at 51%FG and 37%3s with a bunch of 20+ point games.
 

cly2tw

Registered User
Joined
Oct 26, 2002
Posts
5,832
Reaction score
0
Amare's stats line: 26mpg, 12.9ppg, 56.5%, 7.9rpg, PER 20.4.
 

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
27,541
Reaction score
9,821
Location
L.A. area
Good thing you are not a talent evaluator according to you Zach LaVine sucks, Shabazz Muhammed sucks.

Good thing you aren't either, or the Suns would still have Earl Clark. Everyone makes mistakes.
 

sunsfan88

ASFN Icon
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Posts
11,660
Reaction score
844
Good thing you aren't either, or the Suns would still have Earl Clark. Everyone makes mistakes.

He hated Gortat also who is has been balling in Washington the last year and a half. Pretty sure he hated Kieff and called him a tweener and said he would never succeed due to lack of length & athleticism also. Now he's making "Is Kieff the Suns MVP?" Theeads lol.

Like you said, we have all made our mistakes.
 

95pro

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 10, 2007
Posts
12,761
Reaction score
4,213
I guess Kieff would be hard to replace if he went down. Bledsoe scores more but we can replace him with Dragic and Thomas, and vice versa for all three. Plumlee can be replaced by Len no problem. There's no hope with our SF position, it's a wash and a bad one at that.

Green and Kieff would be hard to replace for sure.
 
OP
OP
slinslin

slinslin

Welcome to Amareca
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Posts
16,855
Reaction score
562
Location
Hannover - Germany
Don't forget Beasley and Lopez.

Suns wish they still had Lopez all these years.

BTW I never wanted the Suns to draft Earl Clark. I just wanted them to give a then promising rookie at the time PLAYING TIME TO DEVELOP because that is what this team is absolutely incapable of, developing young players.
If you are a potential draftpick you better pray that the Suns don't pick you.
 

BC867

Long time Phoenician!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
17,827
Reaction score
1,709
Location
NE Phoenix
You must be registered for see images attach
I am surprised that Len is twice as effective and Plumlee is just as effective, the only two who are when Markieff is on the bench.

What would you say the cause is?
 

Latest posts

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
556,052
Posts
5,431,306
Members
6,329
Latest member
cardinals2025
Top