Is Nash done?

[Hayduke]

The weird thing is that with Nash it doesn't seem to be physical, as much as it is mental.

... ... And your basing this off of what?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

i thank nash for all the amazing excitement that he's given us. but i'm loyal to the suns and my desire for a winner. and frankly, i can divorce myself from a player who i will always hold in high esteem when their time is coming to an end. i have watched a ton of basketball over the years, and i can say this . . . stevie's time a premier pg in this league seems to be nearing an end. does he suck? no way. but his offensive prowess has diminished to the point that his defensive shortcomings are no longer tolerable. i cannot believe i am about to say this, but i think nash is best suited as a high minute backup on a contending team.

 

[Kablansky]

This thread = fail

 

[SirStefan32]

but his offensive prowess has diminished to the point that his defensive shortcomings are no longer tolerable.

And that is EXACTLY right.

 

[joshstmarie]

Paul, Williams, Harris, Billups, and Parker are my top 5, followed by Davis, Calderon, and Miller. Kidd, Nelson, Rondo, Bibby and possibly Duhon are at least comparable to Nash, if not better than him.

you just disqualified yourself from being able to post in this thread again.


chris duhon is comparable IF NOT BETTER? jason kidd? jameer &%$^ nelson??

this is a joke.

none of these guys ran their team like nash has the past 4 years, and you expect him to be this mvp guy when porter flips his role upside down. wow. just wow.

 

[joshstmarie]

I voted maybe, I have seen almost every game this year and Nash is not the same and he is becoming more selfish with the ball as well, Him and Amare dont seem to be working well together at all, i want to see alot mor pick and rolls with those two

let me get this straight, now nash is all of a sudden more selfish? news flash, the amount of pick and rolls have NOTHING to do with steve nash. talk to your boy porter about that one.

 

[mjb21aztd]

Watch the next game we win people will be saying how great nash is, I find it funny how everyother day people mind changes on this board it is like a circus lol.

 

[mojorizen7]

Watch the next game we win people will be saying how great nash is, I find it funny how everyother day people mind changes on this board it is like a circus lol.

Well to be fair, people(fans,media)are flip flopping their views about NFL football teams every week too. One week they get a W and their gonna go to the super bowl.....they get an L and they want to bench the entire offense.

 

[SirStefan32]

you just disqualified yourself from being able to post in this thread again.


chris duhon is comparable IF NOT BETTER? jason kidd? jameer &%$^ nelson??

this is a joke.

none of these guys ran their team like nash has the past 4 years, and you expect him to be this mvp guy when porter flips his role upside down. wow. just wow.

Actually, it is you who should be disqualified from this discussion as you obviously lack basic reading comprehension skills.

This discussion is about RIGHT NOW.
We are not talking about last 4 years. Of course Nash was better than Kidd, Nelson, or Duhon 2 years ago. I never said that Nash was not the best point guard in the league 3 or 4 years ago. Nash was a 2-time MVP, and should have won 3rd time as well. That is, however, irrelevant.

Yes, Nash was awesome 4 years ago. He was great 3 years ago. He was pretty damn good 2 years ago, he was good last year, but he is TERRIBLE right now. Everything else is irrelevant.

 

[joshstmarie]

Actually, it is you who should be disqualified from this discussion as you obviously lack basic reading comprehension skills.

This discussion is about RIGHT NOW.
We are not talking about last 4 years. Of course Nash was better than Kidd, Nelson, or Duhon 2 years ago. I never said that Nash was not the best point guard in the league 3 or 4 years ago. Nash was a 2-time MVP, and should have won 3rd time as well. That is, however, irrelevant.

Yes, Nash was awesome 4 years ago. He was great 3 years ago. He was pretty damn good 2 years ago, he was good last year, but he is TERRIBLE right now. Everything else is irrelevant.

gimme a break. so "RIGHT NOW" you would swap duhon, neson, kidd for nash then? haha. k.

and FYI amares numbers are all down too, points-rb-fg%-blocks are you going to call for his head also? how bout barbosa.. this thread is still dumb and so is saying nelson and co are better than nash "RIGHT NOW".

 

[Arizona's Finest]

gimme a break. so "RIGHT NOW" you would swap duhon, neson, kidd for nash then? haha. k.

and FYI amares numbers are all down too, points-rb-fg%-blocks are you going to call for his head also? how bout barbosa.. this thread is still dumb and so is saying nelson and co are better than nash "RIGHT NOW".

Your trying to rip apart one post of many and missing the context of the thread.

Forget all the PG's that are better or not because that is subjective.

Just answer yourself this: How much has Nash declined since he was MVP of the league?

To me his turnovers and his inability to shoot and finish like he used to have only made his deficiences more pronounced. I think he is giving up more points then he is contributing too over the past few weeks. Thats not a good sign with mid thirties PG who has played ALOT of minutes the last few years.

I am not saying we should trade Nash or that he is absolutely washed up. But that's not what the thread is asking.

You should stop focusing on one poster and actually try to make some counterpoints on why you feel Nash isn't done. STAT's would be nice as the initial post provided those.

 

[Cheesebeef]

he's not even close to what he was, but what he was was an MVP candidate so there's no shame there, but as far as PGs go, I'd probably rank 'em Paul, Williams, Parker, Billups then Nash.

but, I do think he's starting to age quite a bit.

 

[nashman]

agree with you rankings cheese except I would swap Nash and Billips, as Nash makes the people around him better than Billips. still top 5 though unlike nelson, kidd, duhon and some of the other good point gaurds, Nash is still better than all these guys.

 

[Sunburn]

Watch the next game we win people will be saying how great nash is, I find it funny how everyother day people mind changes on this board it is like a circus lol.

learn to use periods.........

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

boldinfan isn't a fan of sentence structure.

 

[ozzfloyd]

Is Nash done?

Nope. But he's nowhere near the best PG in the league any longer. He'll have great games that appear to turn back the clock now and again, but increasingly we'll see mediocre play from him.

You guys with the Nash man-crush need to understand that this is inevitable and in no way diminishes what he's accomplished. Saying that he's in decline in in no way a harsh criticism, just reality.

 

[nowagimp]

Nash is not done, but the slow half court system is harder on him physically, and does not make use of his strengths. Nash is a runner and he is more effective in transition. Against a set half court defense, he will see more physical play from bigger opponents on defense and on offense. If the team had an obvious replacement, like billups, who would work well in the half court game, they could trade nash. Problem is there is not a replacement there. Nash used to create space for his teammates and then pass, now in the Porter system, they must create their own space to recieve the pass, and that isnt working so well. And you guys who think Duhon or some of those others are as good as nash, well they are not playing in this system. Duhon would be a bust, as would some of the others. Billups weakness is in transition, he cant defend the faster PG's in transition, or on the ball without help anymore. Rondo ate him up last year, stuckey was a better defender against Rondo.

 

[mojorizen7]

Nash is not done, but the slow half court system is harder on him physically, and does not make use of his strengths. Nash is a runner and he is more effective in transition. Against a set half court defense, he will see more physical play from bigger opponents on defense and on offense. If the team had an obvious replacement, like billups, who would work well in the half court game, they could trade nash. Problem is there is not a replacement there. Nash used to create space for his teammates and then pass, now in the Porter system, they must create their own space to recieve the pass, and that isnt working so well. And you guys who think Duhon or some of those others are as good as nash, well they are not playing in this system. Duhon would be a bust, as would some of the others. Billups weakness is in transition, he cant defend the faster PG's in transition, or on the ball without help anymore. Rondo ate him up last year, stuckey was a better defender against Rondo.

Agree.

 

[AceP]

Guys. If Jason Williams had won NBA champion as the starting point guard, in a team with less talent compare to this Suns, I'm sure Nash can, too. There is no problem about ability or skill, there is so much about ego. After all, we will see how much Steve Nash wants a ring, we'll see.

 

[arwillan]

Guys. If Jason Williams had won NBA champion as the starting point guard, in a team with less talent compare to this Suns, I'm sure Nash can, too. There is no problem about ability or skill, there is so much about ego. After all, we will see how much Steve Nash wants a ring, we'll see.

Williams also had a guy by the name of Dwyane Wade on his team that year, so he didn't have to be all that great. he also had shaq playing very well to feed it to.

 

[cly2tw]

Nash is not done, but the slow half court system is harder on him physically, and does not make use of his strengths. Nash is a runner and he is more effective in transition. Against a set half court defense, he will see more physical play from bigger opponents on defense and on offense. If the team had an obvious replacement, like billups, who would work well in the half court game, they could trade nash. Problem is there is not a replacement there. Nash used to create space for his teammates and then pass, now in the Porter system, they must create their own space to recieve the pass, and that isnt working so well. And you guys who think Duhon or some of those others are as good as nash, well they are not playing in this system. Duhon would be a bust, as would some of the others. Billups weakness is in transition, he cant defend the faster PG's in transition, or on the ball without help anymore. Rondo ate him up last year, stuckey was a better defender against Rondo.

Nash is physically as fit as Stockton at the same age if not better. Stockton didn't have much problem to be effective to play half court under Sloan. In fact, his defense was quite nasty though limited by his physical limitation.

Sure Nash is best fit for DA. But at his second best, namely to emulate Stockton, he would be still good enough to get us a championship the moment he stopped griping about lost heaven for freerolling carefree style of DA.

 

[Budden]

The vast, vast majority of time that Nash talks about his dissatisfaction with the team's offense, it isn't about D'Antoni. His problem is that - at least until lately - the offense was absolutely terrible. So he was dissatisfied.

 

[AceP]

Williams also had a guy by the name of Dwyane Wade on his team that year, so he didn't have to be all that great. he also had shaq playing very well to feed it to.

Don't we have Amare? If u compare the two roster, I believe this Suns have a better one.

Frontcourt: Amare + Shaq (now) : Haslem + Shaq (06).

We have a huge advantage here. I know u r not a Shaq fan, but that season, he was 20.0 and 9.2, 46.9% FT, now, he is still doing 16.1, 8.5 and much improved FT 58.9%.

Backcourt: Nash + J.Rich : Jwill + Wade

I would say it's par.

Wing: Hill + Barnes : Posey + Walker

If Hill stay healthy and well preserved into playoff, we also have an advantage here.


Reserve:
Barbosa > Payton
Lopez + Amundson <= Mourning + some1 else I don't remember who


I've said this b4, if Nash could adjust his game to do more "passing" instead of too much "creating", he'll be much better with this system.

 

[cly2tw]

Don't we have Amare? If u compare the two roster, I believe this Suns have a better roster.

Frontcourt: Amare + Shaq (now) : Haslem + Shaq (06).

We have a huge advantage here. I know u r not a Shaq fan, but that season, he was 20.0 and 9.2, 46.9% FT, now, he is still doing 16.1, 8.5 and much improved FT 58.9%.

Backcourt: Nash + J.Rich : Jwill + Wade

I would say it's par.

Wing: Hill + Barnes : Posey + Walker

If Hill stay healthy and well preserved into playoff, we also have an advantage here.


Reserve:
Barbosa > Payton
Lopez < Mourning

Well, they had an effective offense of going to lowpost early and often, with Wade improvisation coming in as second option. Plus they had indeed better defense throughout, with Haslem, Posey, Wade, Mourning, Payton