Is our Shipp sinking?

[Loyal Card 17]

shipp is the man and you and everyone else knows this. jackson what a joke.

 

[phinius]

Originally posted by Loyal Card 17
what is all this lame butt talk about the cardinals needing a runningback. quit it. you guys sound like a bunch of idoits. same people that make trolling easy. quit wasting your time this mute discussion. bottom line shipp is the man.

Shipp is okay, but every team needs two or three good running
backs. RB's take a terrific beating, and they need to spelled frequently in tough games. Shipp's production fell off after he was injured. Quite a few coaches alternate RB's during a game.
Phinius, the old timer

 

[SECTION 11]

Remember when the Rams' Cleveland Gary rushed for like 1300 yards, then they went out and drafted Jerome Bettis? Those *********.

 

[Loyal Card 17]

great rookie year. after that he didn't do anything until the steelers picked him up. so what your point. jackson isn't bettis. shipp the man. damian anderson is a good back-up. he was better than emmitt smith when he came into the game. the point is that the cardinals do not need another rb. they have 3 good backs already. so this is a mute discussion.

 

[SECTION 11]

Just don't be surprised if we take a RB on day one.
Why people are satisfied with FIVE rushing td's (dead last in the NFL) is beyond me.
For the record, last year when Shipp really went nuts, we were 23rd in rushing td's.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Loyal Card 17
shipp is the man and you and everyone else knows this. jackson what a joke.

You know it is hard to argue with this sort of reasoning (-:

Can you at least tell us WHY you think Steven Jackson is a joke and Shipp is the man?

I happen to agree that RB is not a priority, but I also think Jackson will be a very good NFL RB, not a joke.

If you meant Michael or Janet, yeah I agree.

 

[Smeagol]

Maybe its just me, but I think the whole rushing td's has more to do with the coaching than the runner. How many times did shipp run us from the 20 to the 20 then that "brain trust" Mac would go from a bad coach to an absolute ******* in terms of play calling.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Smeagol
Maybe its just me, but I think the whole rushing td's has more to do with the coaching than the runner. How many times did shipp run us from the 20 to the 20 then that "brain trust" Mac would go from a bad coach to an absolute ******* in terms of play calling.

Could be. But it also very well could be Shipp's lack of nose for the endzone and his inexplicable tendency to not wrap up the ball inside the 20's.

 

[AZCB34]

The key is his health. IF, and it is a big IF right now, Shipp can stay healthy, he can be a decent every down back. If you project his stats as a starter they would have projected out to

1245 yds in 02
1090 yds in 03

That is only projecting them as a starter, nothing more and it is simply an illustration that he alone could achieve 1000+ yds per season. I still don't buy that he is a home run hitter though...his screen pass run notwithstanding.

I believe if he can get 16 starts and stay healthy he could be 1200-1300 yard back. The situations for his running obviously hurt last year as did some of the questionable play calling. To suggest he needs replacing because he didn't score is ignoring the play calling issues. I just don't think his running style is conducive to avoiding unjury.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Inside the 20 (from NFL.com's Situational Stats);

Shipp: 29 attempts for 79 yards (2.9 ypc), zero TD's, long of 11.
Smith: 12 attempts for 8 yards (0.7 ypc), 2 TD's, long of 4.

Blake: 45 attempts, 19 completions for 125 yards (42.2%) 9 TD's, 1 pick.
McCown: 20 attempts, 11 completions for 70 yards (55.0%) 3 TD's, 1 pick.


I can see why they threw it 65 times in the redzone. They scored a TD every 5.4 passes.
Running Shipp or Smith got them a TD every 20 runs.

Why run it in the redzone if your RB can't find the endzone?

I just thought that this note by Sec 11 bears repeating, since the most common excuse for Marcel's lack of TDs is that he never got the ball inside the 20. He got the ball, but whiffed on each of his 29 chances in the red zone.

Shipp is what he is: mediocre. I, for one, feel that the Cards and their fans deserve more than mediocrity. Shipp will lead you to 5-11 season after 5-11 season. Steven Jackson may not be the next Ricky Williams, but it's probably worth the risk in order to work toward a winning record and playoff appearances. I think that we've about seen what we can expect from Marcel Shipp for his career: two or three good games, and then really bad performances thereafter. Oh, and maybe if we give him the ball on the one-inch line, he'll accidentially fall into the end zone, at some point.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by kerouac9
I just thought that this note by Sec 11 bears repeating, since the most common excuse for Marcel's lack of TDs is that he never got the ball inside the 20. He got the ball, but whiffed on each of his 29 chances in the red zone.

Shipp is what he is: mediocre. I, for one, feel that the Cards and their fans deserve more than mediocrity. Shipp will lead you to 5-11 season after 5-11 season. Steven Jackson may not be the next Ricky Williams, but it's probably worth the risk in order to work toward a winning record and playoff appearances. I think that we've about seen what we can expect from Marcel Shipp for his career: two or three good games, and then really bad performances thereafter. Oh, and maybe if we give him the ball on the one-inch line, he'll accidentially fall into the end zone, at some point.

The question in those stats is where were those runs from? How many times inside the 5 and 10 are probably better indicator of his use IMO...and I am not saying it thinking it will support my argument since quite frankly, I have no idea what those stats would look like.

If most of those came inside the 10, then there is a real issue. If the bulk of those carries came between the 10 and 20, then I think the upheaval over his no TDs is nonsense.

 

[Rivercard]

Are there any free agent RB's that you guys would consider an uprade so we don't have to burn a high draft pick on a that position?

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by AZCB34
The question in those stats is where were those runs from? How many times inside the 5 and 10 are probably better indicator of his use IMO...and I am not saying it thinking it will support my argument since quite frankly, I have no idea what those stats would look like.

If most of those came inside the 10, then there is a real issue. If the bulk of those carries came between the 10 and 20, then I think the upheaval over his no TDs is nonsense.

Why? If all 30 of those runs came from the 12, does that make it more excusable that none of them went for 13? Any back capable of being a starter in the NFL ought to be able to bread a 25+ yard TD run every 125 carries or so. Marcel had 200+ carries and didn't break one.

I understand your point about injuries, but Marcel hasn't shown that he can stay healthy for a four-game stretch, much less a 16-game schedule. He's shown that twice. You just can't discount that any more than you could discount Fred Taylor's injury history when considering him. The only difference is that Taylor can reasonably score a TD every time he touches the ball, and Shipp might score another TD before he goes to 500 carries without one.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by kerouac9
Why? If all 30 of those runs came from the 12, does that make it more excusable that none of them went for 13? Any back capable of being a starter in the NFL ought to be able to bread a 25+ yard TD run every 125 carries or so. Marcel had 200+ carries and didn't break one.

I understand your point about injuries, but Marcel hasn't shown that he can stay healthy for a four-game stretch, much less a 16-game schedule. He's shown that twice. You just can't discount that any more than you could discount Fred Taylor's injury history when considering him. The only difference is that Taylor can reasonably score a TD every time he touches the ball, and Shipp might score another TD before he goes to 500 carries without one.

Points well taken.

So if he scored once inside the red zone it would be enough? Because 25+ every 125 carries may lead to one run for TD inside the 20. Having a "nose" for the endzone requires alot more than a above average back. It requires an OL that can make and sustain blocks...same with WRs and FB. It takes a RB with vision and a RB that can avoid the first tackle. I still think the play calling is an issue since it was schizophrenic at best. Not saying Shipp didn't get his chances, but I also think there was alot more going on that just Shipp not getting into the endzone.

The issue of course is, his running style will not allow for a full season of starts IMO...at least not until he proves it. I firmly believe the Cards cannot discount taking a RB at some point. I am in the Michael Turner camp personally because if nothing else I want defense in round 1.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by AZCB34
Points well taken.

So if he scored once inside the red zone it would be enough? Because 25+ every 125 carries may lead to one run for TD inside the 20. Having a "nose" for the endzone requires alot more than a above average back. It requires an OL that can make and sustain blocks...same with WRs and FB. It takes a RB with vision and a RB that can avoid the first tackle. I still think the play calling is an issue since it was schizophrenic at best. Not saying Shipp didn't get his chances, but I also think there was alot more going on that just Shipp not getting into the endzone.

The issue of course is, his running style will not allow for a full season of starts IMO...at least not until he proves it. I firmly believe the Cards cannot discount taking a RB at some point. I am in the Michael Turner camp personally because if nothing else I want defense in round 1.

I'll just repeat my earlier assertion about Shipp's defenders:

Shipp is what he is: mediocre. I, for one, feel that the Cards and their fans deserve more than mediocrity. Shipp will lead you to 5-11 season after 5-11 season. Steven Jackson may not be the next Ricky Williams, but it's probably worth the risk in order to work toward a winning record and playoff appearances. I think that we've about seen what we can expect from Marcel Shipp for his career: two or three good games, and then really bad performances thereafter. Oh, and maybe if we give him the ball on the one-inch line, he'll accidentially fall into the end zone, at some point.

Maybe we could draft Julius Jones at some point early on the second day; fans would love that. Maybe Greg Jones if he drops a little.

 

[Loyal Card 17]

when i posted what a joke. i mean this thread is a joke. jackson is a good back for the beavers. my opinion is let some other team have him. i watched the games. when shipp got the ball on the goal line, the o-line didn't get the push on the d-line. if you noticed on most short yardage situation, shipp got the ball and got hit 1 or 2 yards in the backfeild. the o-line didn't dominate in goalline situation and short yardage situation. remeber blake not getting one inch because the o-line didn't get a push.