Is there any way we pass on Thomas?

[Cbus cardsfan]

Whiz didn't mention Thomas as 1 of the players the Cards think can be great and Grimm mentioned, what he thinks, is a deep draft at the tackle position. The Cards don't need to smokescreen the Thomas pick because he would have to fall to them and everyone knows they need help at OT.What if they are just telling the truth and don't like Thomas that much. I don't see how that's possible but they have had many boneheaded picks in previous drafts so there's a possibility. If the draft fell like this:
Oak-Russell
Det-Quinn
Cle-Peterson
TB-Johnson
and the Cards took Alan Branch(one of the guys Whiz mentioned) how PO'd would you be? I think there would be a total meltdown. If Landry was the pick it wouldn't be as bad but Branch would be drafting a postion perceived as a strength instead of taking a higher rated player at a position of need in Thomas.

 

[Shane]

Whiz didn't mention Thomas as 1 of the players the Cards think can be great and Grimm mentioned, what he thinks, is a deep draft at the tackle position. The Cards don't need to smokescreen the Thomas pick because he would have to fall to them and everyone knows they need help at OT.What if they are just telling the truth and don't like Thomas that much. I don't see how that's possible but they have had many boneheaded picks in previous drafts so there's a possibility. If the draft fell like this:
Oak-Russell
Det-Quinn
Cle-Peterson
TB-Johnson
and the Cards took Alan Branch(one of the guys Whiz mentioned) how PO'd would you be? I think there would be a total meltdown. If Landry was the pick it wouldn't be as bad but Branch would be drafting a postion perceived as a strength instead of taking a higher rated player at a position of need in Thomas.

If THomas is available and this team does not select him they are complete morons. Not only would they likely be set at a position of need for likely 10 years. They would also be able to please the BPA crowd around here.

The guy is a stud!

 

[Mrh182]

I think it's a smoke screen.... I'd be shocked if he wasn't the #1 player on their board... considering:

1) he's the best OL prospect in the draft
2) our OL is horrible.

I'm thinking they are just holding their cards to their chest so a team behind them that thinks he could drop out of the top 5 past the Cards wont move up.


And if he is there and they don't take him.... God have mercy on their souls.

 

[nurnay]

Whiz didn't mention Thomas as 1 of the players the Cards think can be great...

C'mon, Cbus, you know better. The stuff we hear from coaches/teams now means nothing. Zilch. Zero. Nada.

If Thomas is there (which I still can't see happening), we'll take him.

 

[Garthshort]

To Pass on Thomas

Could mean that the coaches, rightly or wrongly, have a plan for the OL, and on their board there is a BPA, who is rated ahead of Thomas. That said, the only way I could see us not selecting Thomas is a trade down situation. And that tells us that in the opinion of the team, that we have a lot of needs, that can only be addressed with more picks. That being said, we stay at #5 and pick JT, making 90% of the board members happy.

 

[cardsfanmd]

If THomas is available and this team does not select him they are complete morons. Not only would they likely be set at a position of need for likely 10 years. They would also be able to please the BPA crowd around here.

The guy is a stud!

You know, I am so sick and tired of everyone saying that. It makes me absolutely insane. Every year there are two or three linemen in the draft that everyone says will hold down their spot for ten years. How often does that happen? I can only think of about six guys over the past 10 or 15 years that were able to hold their spot down for ten years. And three of them left their originals teams in free agency. Stop lying to yourselves guys.

Another thing is I would like you guys to go look at the video that Shogun put up called something along the lines of "Ross and Gandy cant be this bad". That guy Kwame Harris was projected to hold down his spot for ten years. Because of that he was a 1st rounder. He cant even keep Alex Smith safe for two plays in a row.

I am beginning to lean more and more twards taking Landry or Peterson or moving down.

 

[Stout]

I think a shoe through the TV would be appropriate.

 

[Shogun]

Exactly. I'd be LIVID if he was available and they knowingly passed on him.

 

[nurnay]

You know, I am so sick and tired of everyone saying that. It makes me absolutely insane. Every year there are two or three linemen in the draft that everyone says will hold down their spot for ten years. How often does that happen? I can only think of about six guys over the past 10 or 15 years that were able to hold their spot down for ten years. And three of them left their originals teams in free agency. Stop lying to yourselves guys.

Pretty true. For every Orlando Pace, there are 2 or 3 Robert Gallerys. Still, he does look as solid as an OT can look at this point, and we'd be crazy to pass on him.

On another note, SI.com has draft history back to 1998 linked on their NFL page. It's pretty fun to go through each year rounds 1-7 and see who's still around. It's also depressing to read all the Cards picks that either never did anything for the team or ended up having success somewhere else.

 

[overseascardfan]

I think it's a smoke screen.... I'd be shocked if he wasn't the #1 player on their board... considering:

1) he's the best OL prospect in the draft
2) our OL is horrible.

I'm thinking they are just holding their cards to their chest so a team behind them that thinks he could drop out of the top 5 past the Cards wont move up.


And if he is there and they don't take him.... God have mercy on their souls.

I'd agree but that was the same scenario with the Suggs fiasco.

 

[Garthshort]

Suggs fiasco

I know that the trade down resulted in us taking two guys, not deemed worthy of the 1st round, and that Suggs was named defensive POY. However, since then I haven't heard all that much about him. Seems like a situational pass rusher, and while that's not bad, for the 5th or 6th pick, IMO you should get more.

 

[red desert]

You know, I am so sick and tired of everyone saying that. It makes me absolutely insane. Every year there are two or three linemen in the draft that everyone says will hold down their spot for ten years. How often does that happen? I can only think of about six guys over the past 10 or 15 years that were able to hold their spot down for ten years. And three of them left their originals teams in free agency. Stop lying to yourselves guys.

Another thing is I would like you guys to go look at the video that Shogun put up called something along the lines of "Ross and Gandy cant be this bad". That guy Kwame Harris was projected to hold down his spot for ten years. Because of that he was a 1st rounder. He cant even keep Alex Smith safe for two plays in a row.

I am beginning to lean more and more twards taking Landry or Peterson or moving down.

I agree it's a crapshoot. But, if he is there, we need to take him. If not, PETERSON.

 

[JeffGollin]

In answer to your question: No. If Thomas is still there, we should take him.

Trying to scope out what the Cardinals will do based on what their coaches are saying is like believing the guy trying to sell you a used car. (1) Lying before Draft Day is in the DNA of most of them and (2) This is our first go-round with WIZ and Russ Grimm; so, in terms of their credibility we have little or no past record of statements to go on.

I found he article on the O-line from the Cardinal website fascinating both in terms of its contents but even more when you ask yourself: "Why did they write it? And why did they release it now?"

If you accepted what it said on face value, you'd presume the Cards will pass on an OT in the first round and hope to scoop up Blalock in the second.

But if you ascribe to the "they're lying" theory and add to it the fact that the four guys mentioned by WIZ as "really good at their position failed to mention Thomas, you might conclude that Thomas was conspicuous by his absence and, therefore, the guy the Cardinals want all along.

Why all the possible subtrefuge? Because it throws competing teams off balance when considering a trade with you (or to leapfrog ahead of you).

One final comment - Just because previous teams have whiffed on first round OT picks, doesn't mean teams should automatically avoid selecting one. (For every Kwamie Harris there's a Boselli or Ogden). The key is to "know your prospect inside and out" and make the right decision not the trendy (or, for that matter, untrendy) one.

 

[jefftheshark]

I think that there is a very good chance that we pass on Thomas.

If you listen to all the whispers out there, the team seems to believe that it is close to being set with its starting O-line, but they are going to let the actual positions sort themselves out during training camp.

IMHO, the disappointment of LD will color the thinking of the FO as to taking a LT this high in the draft.

I also think that the team thinks that the D-line is where we need the most help, probably DE. This year could be like '96 where we passed on Ogden to take Rice.

The Shark

 

[ajcardfan]

I know that the trade down resulted in us taking two guys, not deemed worthy of the 1st round, and that Suggs was named defensive POY. However, since then I haven't heard all that much about him. Seems like a situational pass rusher, and while that's not bad, for the 5th or 6th pick, IMO you should get more.

Nah, he's not "situational" at all. He's a three down player. He was DROY and has made the Pro Bowl twice and has averaged 10 sacks a season. That's worthy of a top ten pick.

 

[Mitch]

I think that there is a very good chance that we pass on Thomas.

If you listen to all the whispers out there, the team seems to believe that it is close to being set with its starting O-line, but they are going to let the actual positions sort themselves out during training camp.

IMHO, the disappointment of LD will color the thinking of the FO as to taking a LT this high in the draft.

I also think that the team thinks that the D-line is where we need the most help, probably DE. This year could be like '96 where we passed on Ogden to take Rice.

The Shark

I think you are right on the money, Shark.

Sometimes we as fans get caught up in how the pundits rank the players. Joe Thomas, for example, would be perfect fit for a finesse blocking offensive line like Denver's.

If Thomas were more like Jonathan Ogden, then I don't think the Cards would pass on him.

But...I think the Cardinals think as highly of Justin Blalock...if not more...than they do of Joe Thomas...and they think they may have a great shot at getting Blalock in round two.

Blalock fits Whiz's system better.

 

[JeffGollin]

But...I think the Cardinals think as highly of Justin Blalock...if not more...than they do of Joe Thomas...and they think they may have a great shot at getting Blalock in round two.

Blalock fits Whiz's system better.

I'd agree with you except for one thing.

You assume that Blalock will still be there at #38.

What happens if we pass on Thomas and then Blalock is taken before us? (It would be a repeat of what happened when we "assumed" that McDougal would still be on our board at #18 when we traded away from Suggs and out of the top tier).

There are some boards said to rate Thomas the #1 BPA (I presume higher than Calvin Johnson - which I'd find hard to justify). Without actually seeing the Big Red board, I don't think we can assume anything.

* Note - Even if McDougal had dropped to us, I would have - both at the time and certainly on hindsight - questioned the ability of our scouting dept. to evaluate talent. Either way, that tradie-down appeared to be a poor move then and a poor move when judged today.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

I'd agree with you except for one thing.

You assume that Blalock will still be there at #38.

Thats a big assumption ...

Some of mock drafts have him going much higher than that ...

 

[lobo]

C'mon, Cbus, you know better. The stuff we hear from coaches/teams now means nothing. Zilch. Zero. Nada.

If Thomas is there (which I still can't see happening), we'll take him.

Those sitting in Radio City can be both visually challanged and hearing challenged and they still make the pick. There is not smokescreen or any other bullpucky. If Thomas is there that is that. It should take no more than 30 seconds, depending on where they are sitting.

 

[cardsfanmd]

I am sorry, cause I know I will get blasted for this, but I just really think that if we want to be a premier team in this league we need to appraoch the draft like the other premier ones do. I just am not completely sold on Thomas yet. I dont think there is any doubt about how good Landry will be and I just cannot verify passing on who I view as the second safest pick in the draft (behind CJ) for someone who could turn out to be another BIG. Landry has All Pro written all over him. Baltimore is a team that has as much need on the O-line as we do and I guarentee they wouldn't pass up on a talent like Landry for Thomas.

 

[jefftheshark]

I think you are right on the money, Shark.

Sometimes we as fans get caught up in how the pundits rank the players. Joe Thomas, for example, would be perfect fit for a finesse blocking offensive line like Denver's.

If Thomas were more like Jonathan Ogden, then I don't think the Cards would pass on him.

But...I think the Cardinals think as highly of Justin Blalock...if not more...than they do of Joe Thomas...and they think they may have a great shot at getting Blalock in round two.

Blalock fits Whiz's system better.

Thanks, Walt, I was pleased to see you post a very similar thought on your "Saturday". Great minds, and all that, you know.

I was shocked in 1996 when we passed on Ogden, so I won't even be mildly surprised if we pass on Thomas.

IMHO, we need a more reliable pass rush to help out our secondary. That is why I don't think Landry is the pick (even though he would be a great choice). Berry is just too unreliable at this stage of his career to not be a major concern.

My guess is that we are looking at Adams or Anderson, a blocking TE in the second and the best available T in the third.

The Shark

 

[lobo]

I'd agree with you except for one thing.

You assume that Blalock will still be there at #38.

What happens if we pass on Thomas and then Blalock is taken before us? (It would be a repeat of what happened when we "assumed" that McDougal would still be on our board at #18 when we traded away from Suggs and out of the top tier).

There are some boards said to rate Thomas the #1 BPA (I presume higher than Calvin Johnson - which I'd find hard to justify). Without actually seeing the Big Red board, I don't think we can assume anything.

* Note - Even if McDougal had dropped to us, I would have - both at the time and certainly on hindsight - questioned the ability of our scouting dept. to evaluate talent. Either way, that tradie-down appeared to be a poor move then and a poor move when judged today.

Being cutesy this year is a mistake. The need still remains OL on top of the heap. Whether it's Thomas at 1 or Brown at 5/7/8/9/ that is the direction we should take. Their is plenty of depth at DB and DE this year, certainly through the third round there will be quality. Too bad we will pass on Eric Wright as he is as good as there is, but might see his picture in the Post Office one day.

 

[Big Deal]

I just hope the Lions pick Thomas so we don't have to be in a position to have to take him, or look like morons. I just think that Thomas has question marks when I look at the way he plays. He doesn't seem nasty enough to play OLine in the NFL. He reminds me of his Wisconsin buddy finance major who was a total bust for us even though HE was a sure fire pick.

Combine that with the OLine picks that have been taken in the top 10 this decade and I get really scared. Look at how many dominating prospects came from picks after number 10 and now many flops within the top 10. That alone should convince anyone on this board that Thomas is no more that a 50% roll of the dice.

 

[cardsfanmd]

I just hope the Lions pick Thomas so we don't have to be in a position to have to take him, or look like morons. I just think that Thomas has question marks when I look at the way he plays. He doesn't seem nasty enough to play OLine in the NFL. He reminds me of his Wisconsin buddy finance major who was a total bust for us even though HE was a sure fire pick.

Combine that with the OLine picks that have been taken in the top 10 this decade and I get really scared. Look at how many dominating prospects came from picks after number 10 and now many flops within the top 10. That alone should convince anyone on this board that Thomas is no more that a 50% roll of the dice.

Exactly.

 

[kerouac9]

Thomas is exactly like Jonathan Ogden. Ogden was perceived as a "soft pass blocker" who didn't like to run block when he came out of UCLA.