Is there any way we pass on Thomas?

[Skkorpion]

Back off the insults, please.

 

[Shane]

That is an aboslutely ridiculous and ignorant response there buddy. I in no way shape or form personally attack you, and yet you find a way to be an internet tough guy and start namecalling over the damn computer.

Why you choose to lie and say that I wrote that you guarenteed good play from Thomas when I not only quoted your exact words but also highlighted them is beyond me.

Furthermore, if you can read then you can look at what my post says and you will notice that I wrote that "I viewed" Landry as the second safest pick. That means that I was simply expressing an opinion. I did not claim to "know" anything.

For the record too bud, safety is historically a safer pick than O-line in the first round. No, that isn't my opinion either, its a fact go to NFL.com and research it if you like.

In the end, you were exactly right. People who have thoughts like you should leave all the talking to others.

This is exactly what you wrote: "You know, I am so sick and tired of everyone saying that. It makes me absolutely insane. Every year there are two or three linemen in the draft that everyone says will hold down their spot for ten years. How often does that happen? I can only think of about six guys over the past 10 or 15 years that were able to hold their spot down for ten years. And three of them left their originals teams in free agency. Stop lying to yourselves guys."

Correct me if Im wrong here but look at your last sentence. That completely implies that Im stating that I pretty much guarantee that Thomas will be holding down a T position in the league for 10 years. Well If my words were "might" That obviously isnt true so why would I be lying to myself? Also if what people say on a message board make you insane maybe you should stay off of them.


Here is your exact words on Landry: "I dont think there is any doubt about how good Landry will be and I just cannot verify passing on who I view as the second safest pick in the draft (behind CJ) for someone who could turn out to be another BIG. Landry has All Pro written all over him. Baltimore is a team that has as much need on the O-line as we do and I guarentee they wouldn't pass up on a talent like Landry for Thomas."

Hypocrisy is what it is. If you dont want to be called a hypocrite then dont act like one. You go off on me saying my comments(opinions) drive you insane. Acting as though I stated that him being here for 10 years would be a fact. I didnt. Why would anyones opinion drive you insane? Then you turn around and give your opinion on Landry followed by a statement that comes off more as fact. Which I enlarged above. If you cant see the hypocrisy in that or how it comes off that way well...... sorry for you.

Where did I come off as a tough guy too? Please show me that? Did I say sommthing along the lines of you lucky your not in vegas or I in Maryland? Did I say the next time Im in Maryland you beter watch out? I think not.

 

[kerouac9]

Jonathan Ogden
Orlando Pace
Walter Jones
Jamaal Brown
D'Brickshaw Ferguson
John Tait
Kyle Turley
Tra Thomas
Chris Samuels
Jordan Gross
Mike Williams

Actually, Mike Williams was a complete bust, but you missed Bryant McKinnie, who's been a great success for the Vikings. So I guess it all evens out.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Actually, Mike Williams was a complete bust, but you missed Bryant McKinnie, who's been a great success for the Vikings. So I guess it all evens out.

that's actually who I meant to write.

So 14 out of 17 - still, not bad odds at all.

 

[lobo]

I disagree, look at the free agency period. Whiz and Graves stated that they wanted to go for depth and competition and they did. So far, Whiz in particular seem to be very straight forward. They said who they were going to target and they got their first choices except for Kelley. If I remember most people on this board thought they were hiding the truth then too. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see the Cardinals pass on Thomas.

Two points. The only possible way he is not drafted is if there is some question about his health and previous injury.

Second point, to repeat what you have already heard. Just because the lips of the FO or KW are moving don't believe anything. The team has nothing to gain by sharing anything in public about who they like and what their intentions are. The ONLY team that could and won't do that are the Raiders. What does the peanut gallery need clarification on this matter?

 

[ajcardfan]

Your right bud. I have had season tickets to the Ravens since they came to Baltimore but I haven't seen much of them. Go to a Baltimore board and ask some Raven fans what they think about him.

So what? There's guys on here who I know watch every Cardinals play and they just have it wrong sometimes. Suggs does more than just pass rush on 3rd downs.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Alright, Mike Williams is an absolute bum first and foremost. Now that you guys have l;isted all of the tackles picked in the top ten I would like you to take a look at all of the safeties picked in the first round, that means the top 31 picks and then tell me taking one in the first isn't safe.

Roy Williams
Troy Palamalu
Ed Reed
Sean Taylor
Donte Whitner
Michael Huff
Jason Allen
Adam Archeleta
Derrick Gibson
Antwaan Edwards
Tebucky Jones
Donavin Darius

OK, Edwards wasn't anything special and Gibson is a one dimensional starter but the rest (with the exception of Archeleta, I cant remember if he went to one or not with the Rams) have either played in a Pro Bowl or are well on their way to one.

 

[Zeno]

I don't know why this is even an argument. There is no way we take a safety during the first day let alone during the first round. And in my personal opinion Reggie Nelson will be the better safety between he and Landry...but thats just my opinion.

If your justification for not taking Thomas is because so many other first round OT have been bust well...thats just stupid. You can use that argument for nearly every position. Using that logic why did we pick Leinart last year when Couch, Smith, Carr, Harrington etc etc bombed out as first round QBs? Shouldn't we have just waited until the 6th round to grab our QB of the future because thats when Brady was picked?? Absolutely ridiculous. Every player has to be looked at as an individual and not judged based on what other players in that same position have done in previous drafts.

We need an OT we need an OLB, we need depth at DE...we don't need another safety, not after just signing one and signing another one to an extension. If you go by BPA and we are sitting there with Thomas and Landry on the board I doubt many teams have Landry ahead of Thomas.

Just because you have a huge man crush on a player doesn't mean he should be the choice.

 

[BigRedArk]

OK, Edwards wasn't anything special and Gibson is a one dimensional starter but the rest (with the exception of Archeleta, I cant remember if he went to one or not with the Rams) have either played in a Pro Bowl or are well on their way to one.

Archuleta was picked in the 1st round by the Rams in 2001. They had 3 1st round picks that year.

 

[cardsfanmd]

To make things clear, I never said that all or most of the first round linemen were busts. I just said or intended to say that from what I have noticed, Landry looks to be an absolute stud. He had the physicality of a strong safety and the speed of a cb and Thomas just doesn't look like an Odgen or Pace to me. Do I think he will make a very good, possibly great NFL tackle, yes I do, I just think that Landry can be one of the top 5 safeties in the league immediately. I wouldn't be upset at all if Thomas was our pick. Is it possible to not be anti-Thomas, just pro-Landry?

I give up. Does anyone think we have a chance to get not only Thomas in the first but Brandon Meriweather in the second and maybe hope for Rufus Alexander in the third? I think he could fall to there, Gerald hayes did and he was projected by many to be a late first-rounder.

 

[Scot1]

Well, the argument that OTs chosen high in the draft are unusually likely to be busts has been pretty well squashed by the facts.

The claim that Suggs is a bust has been fairly well squashed, but the pro-bowl voters could've been brainwashed, so here are some stats on Suggs vs. pro-bowl DEs and a couple of OLBs, averaged over 4 years of play:

Suggs: 55 Tackles, 3.5 Fumbles Forced, 10 sacks, 3.5 passes defended.
Strahan (leaving out injury years) 77, 1, 15, 3.5.
Schobel: 64, 2.75, 10.5, 3.
W. Smith: 50, 3.7, 8.9, 3.
Peppers: 54-, 3, 10, 5.5.
Taylor: 65, 4.5, 12, 7.
Merriman:60, 0, 13.5, 5.5.
Ware: 65, 4, 10, 3.

Suggs doesn't equal Strahan (ignoring injuries) or Jason Taylor, but he's around the numbers of Peppers and Will Smith. I guess cardsfanmd may have oddly high standards for NFL play--or be a UA alum. But Suggs might be able to win some playing time on the Cards, compared to Okeafor (50, .25, 8, 3) or Dansby (76, 1.7, 6, 2.7).

 

[perivolaki]

Two points. The only possible way he is not drafted is if there is some question about his health and previous injury.

Second point, to repeat what you have already heard. Just because the lips of the FO or KW are moving don't believe anything. The team has nothing to gain by sharing anything in public about who they like and what their intentions are. The ONLY team that could and won't do that are the Raiders. What does the peanut gallery need clarification on this matter?

What did they have to gain by telling the fans who they were interested in and what they intended to do in free agency? If you say you are interested in a player and don't get him you kind of look like a fool. A lot of people named a lot of offensive linemen that we should go after in free agency but Whiz targeted Gandy from the beginning and didn't look at many others. Like I said before Whiz seems to be pretty upfront when he says something.

 

[perivolaki]

As to your next assertion that Safety is a much safrer pick and that a T is just as likely to be a Robert Gallery as a Jonathan Ogden - well, this has to be probably one of the most uninformed opinions I've ever seen on the subject. Let's look at the ALL of the Ts taken in the first 14 picks in the last ten years years, shall we?

D-Brickshaw
Jamaal Brown
Robert Gallery
Jordan Gross
Mike Williams
Leonard Davis
Chris Samuels
John Tait
Kyle Turley
Tra Thomas
Orlando Pace
Jonathan Ogden
Walter Jones

so - right there, out of THIRTEEN guys, there is ONE complete bust (Gallery) and ONE mediocre T (Big) - the other guys are either perenial pro-bowlers, HOFer or firmly entrenched at their positions, being key members of playoff teams.

So if tackles taken in the top 14 are pretty safe, would you recommend trading down a few spots, getting additional draft picks, and then drafting Levi Brown?

Your argument seems to indicate that this would be a safe and productive strategy.

 

[mjb21aztd]

I hope to god we do not pass on thomas if he is avliable we will be regreting that move for years to come

 

[Cheesebeef]

So if tackles taken in the top 14 are pretty safe, would you recommend trading down a few spots, getting additional draft picks, and then drafting Levi Brown?

Your argument seems to indicate that this would be a safe and productive strategy.

if anyone else but Rod Grave's was in charge, I wouldn't be against this. But seeing as he is and watching this off-season performance (decisions on how to finance it), no, I wouldn't do this for all the money in the world. We'd trade down, end up somehow giving up our third rounder, Levi Brown would get taken one pick before we were about to pick and then we'd reach for the T from Southwestern Eatern State, sending the ESPN guys into a panic, scrambling for tape, while they try their hardest not to laugh at us on the air... again.

so my argument would seem to suggest that for any NFL Team that has a capable front office, it's a viable alternative, but since I don't consider that to be the case here, the argument doesn't really fit.

 

[CardShark]

Maybe the Raiders will take Thomas and give up on Gallery.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Levi Jones,from the Bengals, was also a first rounder that turned out pretty good and he was a surprise selection at, i believe, 10.

 

[perivolaki]

if anyone else but Rod Grave's was in charge, I wouldn't be against this. But seeing as he is and watching this off-season performance (decisions on how to finance it), no, I wouldn't do this for all the money in the world. We'd trade down, end up somehow giving up our third rounder, Levi Brown would get taken one pick before we were about to pick and then we'd reach for the T from Southwestern Eatern State, sending the ESPN guys into a panic, scrambling for tape, while they try their hardest not to laugh at us on the air... again.

so my argument would seem to suggest that for any NFL Team that has a capable front office, it's a viable alternative, but since I don't consider that to be the case here, the argument doesn't really fit.

If you believe the Cards would screw up trading down would you be in favor of drafting Brown at #5 if Thomas is off the Board.

It seems from the history of tackles taken ealy in the first round that Brown would probably end up being a good pick even though most people would say he was a reach.

Most people have Brown ranked in the top 10-12 of the draft. Tackle is probably our biggest position of need and your research tells us that even though he's a reach he would probably end up being a good player. Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Cheesebeef]

If you believe the Cards would screw up trading down would you be in favor of drafting Brown at #5 if Thomas is off the Board.

It seems from the history of tackles taken ealy in the first round that Brown would probably end up being a good pick even though most people would say he was a reach.

Most people have Brown ranked in the top 10-12 of the draft. Tackle is probably our biggest position of need and your research tells us that even though he's a reach he would probably end up being a good player. Inquiring minds want to know.

it depends - if AP is there and we pass on him for Brown, I'd be pretty furious. I really think Edge has one more good year in him (and since his contract is so frontloaded, he could be gone after this year with not too much of a cap hit) and this team could be in such an incredible position skill position wise if they have two #1 WRs, a stud QB to go along with a lightining fast #1 RB, all under the age of 26 - it's just too good to be true if Thomas isn't there, especially considering Brown is anywhere from 10-15.

to be honest, i don't know enough about Brown to say that we should reach that much - but I know if Thomas is there, they pretty much have to take him, with AP next. Thing is, I'll stillbe surprised if either one of them are there.

 

[vinnymac]

I think if Quinn or Russell was still there at 5 the cardinals should trade down with whomever presents the best offer.

 

[JeffGollin]

Try This On For Size

Just because Wiz told MJ his plans for the starting O-line lineup does not mean we won't draft a LT.

In fact, he may have leaked the story to Jurecki in order to present a facade of "no interest" in Thomas in order to discourage other teams from leapfrogging ahead of us to take him.

Maybe the reason he shook up the O-line (to make Gandy his starter at RT) was because he plans to draft either Thomas or L Jones and drop him into the starting RT spot and knows that, by doing so, the other four starting positions would remain intact. (The only odd man out would be Gandy, and he's valuable as a swingman or he could challenge Ross or Wells on the left side anyway).

 

[vinnymac]

I'm not going to worry about the offensive line until i see them play. that goes for the whole team..

 

[Zeno]

Just because Wiz told MJ his plans for the starting O-line lineup does not mean we won't draft a LT.

In fact, he may have leaked the story to Jurecki in order to present a facade of "no interest" in Thomas in order to discourage other teams from leapfrogging ahead of us to take him.

Maybe the reason he shook up the O-line (to make Gandy his starter at RT) was because he plans to draft either Thomas or L Jones and drop him into the starting RT spot and knows that, by doing so, the other four starting positions would remain intact. (The only odd man out would be Gandy, and he's valuable as a swingman or he could challenge Ross or Wells on the left side anyway).

L Brown.

 

[john h]

If THomas is available and this team does not select him they are complete morons. Not only would they likely be set at a position of need for likely 10 years. They would also be able to please the BPA crowd around here.

The guy is a stud!

On paper Thomas looks like a safe pick that fills a need. So say many experts and so say many on this board including me. If he bust then so be it. There are very few if any sure things in the NFL draft. He is as safe a pick as anyone out there except perhaps the Georgia Tech WR who everone is ga ga over.

 

[Skkorpion]

I'm not going to worry about the offensive line until i see them play. that goes for the whole team..

Okay, vinny. I agree. Well, maybe I'll worry a little, just not too much. On second thought, I'll worry a lot and act like I don't.