Is Third Year The Charm?

[George O'Brien]

I believe it was Cotton that said that NBA players typically defnine themselves by their third year. By that time, they've learned what the NBA is all about, how they have to work hard all the time, and get enough experience that they can play rather than think about what to do next.

JJ did not start showing what he could do until late his third season. Amare jumped from a very good player to an elite player in his third year. Some emerge more quickly (Marion's stats were very good by his second season) while others like Nash did not put up star numbers until his 5th year. But third year is still the year when most good player have their breakout.

This year the Suns will have three: Barbosa, Jones, and Diaw.All three have shown flashes and none have established themselves as top tier plaers. Will they? If they are going to, this would be the year.

BARBOSA: Leandro has been on the Suns most frustrating players. He is amazingly quick and has very long arms. He can get to the basket, shoot the three, and is good at getting steals. He's also been slow at picking up on what it takes to play the point and his defensive rotations are not good.

Is he ready for a breakout? If his experience with the Brazilian team is any indication, he may be ready to make an impact. However, he has not shown he can play well against NBA competition, so the jury is still out.

JONES - James Jones was one the biggest beneficiaries of the Pacers guys getting suspended for the fight. Given a chance to play, he proved he is a pretty good defender and a very good three point shooter. The Pacers couldn't really afford to keep him when he became a restricted free agent, so he was traded to the Suns.

Jones might be geared for a really big year. With the Pacers, he showed he could play. With the Suns, he may be able to really shine because the style is better suited to him than the slow down Pacers.

DIAW - Diaw did not have a great year last season with the Hawks, but he did get a chance to play point guard and the Suns liked what they saw. On the Suns, Diaw will get a chance to focus entirely on playing the point and do so with a team that likes to run.

Will Diaw succeed? The Suns thinks so, but he has a lot to prove. In any case, as a third year player, he may be ready.

With Barbosa and Diaw as the Suns primary candidates for backup PG, it looks like the Suns are counting on the "third year's the cham".

 

[coloradosun]

I think James Jones could make us easily forget about Q if his shooting is up to form. Q was always given credit for great defense but anybody can take charges underneath the basket, moving your feet on defense and cutting off passing lanes have just about the same impact.

 

[meth]

This is what makes me so happy know. Yes, we lost JJ but I think our future looks so good anyway. Diaw-Barbosa duo might be real 'lethal weapon' from the bench. Jones (great steal from Indiana!) can cover Marion and they can be terrific pf-sf duo for couple of minutes. We have two strong inside players - Thomas&Grant - (forget Hunter, think Lonnie Jones!) to help Marion with his defensive jobs and let him shine in the offense. We have JJax and Bell (no more Manu!) very good 3pts shooters. We have got 3.6 milion exception and two extra 1st round picks. We are waiting for Finley...
And still....
we got two superstars who can make it all done. Nash 2 Amare!

GO SUNS!

ps. sorry for my english

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Q was always given credit for great defense

Are we talking about the same Q? He was always constantly getting beat off of the dribble, and most of his charges were not against his own man, they were from help defense.

 

[scotsman13]

personally i think barbs is going to have a brake out year. he will get all of the back up time for nash and he will show what he can do.

 

[cly2tw]

I think James Jones could make us easily forget about Q if his shooting is up to form. Q was always given credit for great defense but anybody can take charges underneath the basket, moving your feet on defense and cutting off passing lanes have just about the same impact.

Taking charge is not that easy as it looks. Q was not willing to play defense on that Clippers' team like everybody else but what he has in his blood is court smarts. Very often he singlehandedly made the defensive play to stop opponents' fastbreaks under the basket, either by directly taking charge or by moving his body so as to confuse the opponents so much that they make bad decisions. On offense, he was also the smartest under the basket among all Suns players last season. With the contract we gave him, he is considered fair- to under-priced, not withstanding the fact that we underutilized his talent .

 

[Errntknght]

dreamcastrocks, "most of his charges were not against his own man, they were from help defense."

Nearly all charges taken in the half court are from help D... and that doesn't make them any the less valuable. Hopefully, some of our new guys will take over that role from Q - there is an art to it... watching Jake V. try makes that quite clear.

 

[Joe Mama]

It seems like there were several games late in the season and in the playoffs where Q drew multiple charges. However I'd be surprised if he averaged 1 charged drawn per game. As far as I know that statistic just isn't kept.

Even though I guess it's an effective method of forcing turnovers I hate it when players are constantly trying to draw charges. I think the referees in the NBA and especially in college are far too generous with the charging calls. To many of them are awarded when the defensive player slides in front of the offensive player at the last moment. The offensive player has no option but to plow over the defender, and its dangerous.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

The refs were told to not call charges if the defender had not set his feet completely, but they aren't consistent.

 

[Errntknght]

I agree that the refs don't do a great job calling charges vs. late blocks. I've brought up the idea numerous times of completely altering the criteria refs use because I don't like the maneuver as currently done - it's not in line with sound defence principles and, like you said, it is dangerous. I think the defender should be required to make a play on the ball if he's coming over to help, otherwise it is a blocking foul. Then do away with that silly circle which gives the refs something else they have to watch other than the actual play. The way it is now, the refs are much more inclined to call a foul if the helping defender does what he's supposed to do, which is play defence. So along with insisting the guys defend to avoid the blocking call, the refs should not automatically nail him for the body contact which is virtually certain to occur.

 

[Joe Mama]

I agree that the refs don't do a great job calling charges vs. late blocks. I've brought up the idea numerous times of completely altering the criteria refs use because I don't like the maneuver as currently done - it's not in line with sound defence principles and, like you said, it is dangerous. I think the defender should be required to make a play on the ball if he's coming over to help, otherwise it is a blocking foul. Then do away with that silly circle which gives the refs something else they have to watch other than the actual play. The way it is now, the refs are much more inclined to call a foul if the helping defender does what he's supposed to do, which is play defence. So along with insisting the guys defend to avoid the blocking call, the refs should not automatically nail him for the body contact which is virtually certain to occur.

I like the idea of the little circle, which is to deter defenders from trying to pick up charges directly under the basket. However I agree that too many NBA referees focused solely on whether the defender is out of the circle rather than whether he was really set up properly to take a charge. I'm tired of referees calling charges simply because the defender was squared at the very moment of impact with the offensive player. Nash and Q got away with this frequently last year.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

I like the idea of the little circle, which is to deter defenders from trying to pick up charges directly under the basket. However I agree that too many NBA referees focused solely on whether the defender is out of the circle rather than whether he was really set up properly to take a charge. I'm tired of referees calling charges simply because the defender was squared at the very moment of impact with the offensive player. Nash and Q got away with this frequently last year.

Joe Mama

IMHO, blind charges are bad calls. These happen when a player with his back to the basket (but away from the post), catchs the ball and rams into a player when he turns because the defender sneaked up behind him. Charges should be avoidable.

The solution that guys like Malone came up with was to swing his elbows so hard that anyone who was even close got clocked. It's a foul, but he got he got his money's worth from them - which is why the whole sequence is dangerous.