Isaiah Thomas To Suns

[Covert Rain]

I don't think my point came across very well and given that we are on a sports message board that is understandable.

Of course the end game is important in a basketball sense. I am saying that basketball is not that important in a state of the world and my life and my family sense.
When I say ultimately I mean that people dying around the world is important. Curing cancer is important. Peace and love and human existence is important. Compared to all that basketball games and championships not so much. Professional basketball is a construct to sell tickets and get people to watch advertising.

If the Suns go for 100 years and never win a title I will not regret all the basketball I watched and enjoyed one bit. Would I be happier with a Suns championship? Of course I would. I would be happy, not so much for myself, but for the people that put in the time and effort to make it happen and I would applaud their success. However, I plan to be happy no matter what the Suns do or don't do. I wont let the fate of any sports team control my long term happiness.

Maybe that just makes me a bad fanatic.

Oh Gotcha. I didn't get you were going there. LOL. I totally agree, in the grand scheme of things I don't live and die by any sport as a fan. Hell, I gave up Cardinals season tickets after 8 years because of family stuff even though now they are on the upswing (that sort of hurt). I used to go to a ton of Suns games but that has been scaled way back because of my kids events and things like that.

I will always be a Suns fan good or bad. I will still go to games every year and I will still buy merchandise. However, purely from a FAN perspective...anything short of a title is unacceptable after 41 years in this league. To me being entertained (which feels like pacification) simply doesn't do it for me anymore. It has ZERO to do with regret and regardless of what happens I am a fan and don't regret watching the games, the money I have spent or the cheering.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't think my point came across very well and given that we are on a sports message board that is understandable.

Of course the end game is important in a basketball sense. I am saying that basketball is not that important in a state of the world and my life and my family sense.
When I say ultimately I mean that people dying around the world is important. Curing cancer is important. Peace and love and human existence is important. Compared to all that basketball games and championships not so much. Professional basketball is a construct to sell tickets and get people to watch advertising.

If the Suns go for 100 years and never win a title I will not regret all the basketball I watched and enjoyed one bit. Would I be happier with a Suns championship? Of course I would. I would be happy, not so much for myself, but for the people that put in the time and effort to make it happen and I would applaud their success. However, I plan to be happy no matter what the Suns do or don't do. I wont let the fate of any sports team control my long term happiness.

Maybe that just makes me a bad fanatic.

Absolutely. I love watching the games. And to me, it's far more important that we do the things necessary to try and win a championship than it is to actually win one. I know it's cliched to say it's a journey but it is and I want to enjoy the trip.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

I will always be a Suns fan good or bad. I will still go to games every year and I will still buy merchandise. However, purely from a FAN perspective...anything short of a title is unacceptable after 41 years in this league. To me being entertained (which feels like pacification) simply doesn't do it for me anymore. It has ZERO to do with regret and regardless of what happens I am a fan and don't regret watching the games, the money I have spent or the cheering.

And many of us here would agree with that. However, we are the exception. Die hard fans usually are.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Front loading contracts is allowable, but I am not sure what limits the CBA puts on it.

Say he gets a 4 year 40 million deal, but structures it, 15/8.5/8.5/8. Who is going to complain about payment in advance? It also then allows his deal to be very marketable and keeps free agency options open. It also makes it easier on the overall cap number to sign Goran.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q54

The raise limit also applies to salary decreases -- for example, since the Larry Bird exception limits raises to 7.5% of the first-year salary, the salary may also decrease by up to 7.5% of the first-year salary.

Can't go quite as dramatic as the scenario you proposed.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Just heard his interview with Bickley & Marrotta. VERY impressive guy. Has a huge chip on his shoulder and feels he was disrespected by the Kings... He averaged over 20 points and 6 assists last season and they essentially looked the other way... huh?
Anyway, I'm glad he's with us!

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Just heard his interview with Bickley & Marrotta. VERY impressive guy. Has a huge chip on his shoulder and feels he was disrespected by the Kings... He averaged over 20 points and 6 assists last season and they essentially looked the other way... huh?
Anyway, I'm glad he's with us!

I understand that the Kings are looking to build their team with a more traditional PG, but Letting Thomas go for essentially nothing and when he only got 4/27 from the Suns is just asinine. No wonder their message boards almost went into full on riot mode(not that bad, but pretty bad) after that trade.

 

[sunsfan88]

That a good point as well. I mean you have to be sort of be crazy to come into any kind of league if your sole purpose is to make money. I believe I have heard guys like Cuban and other owners say something to that effect over the years.

Many owners are in it for the competition and the prestige of owning a franchise. Some do because they have been around the game all their lives and want to be part of it. If they make money along the way that's icing on the cake.

I have a friend whose major is sports management and he was actually telling me how owners don't make much profit from their sports team. They have to spend so much money that at the end of the day, it's not a huge profit. It's definitely not a loss but if you aren't a sports fanatic then it makes no sense to own a team and go through all that stress just to make little profit.

 

[WuRaider]

After watching Ennis in summer league, I'm liking the IT signing a little bit more.

Last year, Ish had a game winning impact in at least a few games. Isiah should be able to triple Ish's production.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And many of us here would agree with that. However, we are the exception. Die hard fans usually are.

that's just it though...the die hard fans WILL always be there. But they will only have sell outs and make major money if they're contending for titles (like the Barkley days or the first five Nash years where it was pretty damn hard to get tickets). Middling playoff teams just don't generate much buzz and in an era where a lot of the country is still reeling with economic woes, people aren't selling out stadiums unless their teams have a shot to win it all. Hell, even in previous eras when the economy was stronger, the Jason Kidd teams struggled to sell out playoff games.

Phoenix is a relatively bandwagon city...especially for the Suns/D-Backs. The Cards don't have to deal with that much anymore simply because a) there's so fewer games and b) because the NFL is the king of sports, but if you want your stadium filled and merchandise flying off the shelf in the NBA these days, your team better be pretty damn good.

 

[82CardsGrad]

that's just it though...the die hard fans WILL always be there. But they will only have sell outs and make major money if they're contending for titles (like the Barkley days or the first five Nash years where it was pretty damn hard to get tickets). Middling playoff teams just don't generate much buzz and in an era where a lot of the country is still reeling with economic woes, people aren't selling out stadiums unless their teams have a shot to win it all. Hell, even in previous eras when the economy was stronger, the Jason Kidd teams struggled to sell out playoff games.

Phoenix is a relatively bandwagon city...especially for the Suns/D-Backs. The Cards don't have to deal with that much anymore simply because a) there's so fewer games and b) because the NFL is the king of sports, but if you want your stadium filled and merchandise flying off the shelf in the NBA these days, your team better be pretty damn good.

I think Sarver would agree with that... and, I don't think McDonough came here to accomplish anything less than creating a "pretty damn good"/championship contending team.
Time will tell of course. However, from where I sit, I really like McDonough's early days thus far.

 

[Covert Rain]

that's just it though...the die hard fans WILL always be there. But they will only have sell outs and make major money if they're contending for titles (like the Barkley days or the first five Nash years where it was pretty damn hard to get tickets). Middling playoff teams just don't generate much buzz and in an era where a lot of the country is still reeling with economic woes, people aren't selling out stadiums unless their teams have a shot to win it all. Hell, even in previous eras when the economy was stronger, the Jason Kidd teams struggled to sell out playoff games.

Phoenix is a relatively bandwagon city...especially for the Suns/D-Backs. The Cards don't have to deal with that much anymore simply because a) there's so fewer games and b) because the NFL is the king of sports, but if you want your stadium filled and merchandise flying off the shelf in the NBA these days, your team better be pretty damn good.

In all fairness the only reason the Cards are like that is because they rode the wave of Warner and into a new stadium that generated much buzz. The fans there are pretty fickle as well. I have 8 years of season tickets to prove that and many games I went to were 1/3 empty on game day.

If the Cards end up sucking for a couple years in a row...even the new stadium will be like it was before and you will see people jump off that bandwagon as well. You are right about Phoenix being a bandwagon city for the most part.

 

[CardsFan88]

I have a friend whose major is sports management and he was actually telling me how owners don't make much profit from their sports team. They have to spend so much money that at the end of the day, it's not a huge profit. It's definitely not a loss but if you aren't a sports fanatic then it makes no sense to own a team and go through all that stress just to make little profit.

This is true, but also false, if you look at it the big picture, the value of the club is their big cash out.

That's why in 3 decades Donald Sterling, if he is forced to sell, turned a 12 million dollar investment into 2 billion dollars (before wife, state/federal tax and lawyers of course).

This wasn't always the case, and may not always be the case, but the same can be said about other expenses as well.

It also depends on the sport itself and tv deals. Yankees and Dodgers can spend that much, and still make more then most other teams. Teams with superstars like Lebron get a huge spike in merchandise.

But ultimately the big payoff is when you sell the team.

Sarver/Sarver's group bought the Suns for ~404 million in 2004. This was a high price, and higher then many thought it would go for. Forbes listed it as worth $565 million this year. Of course the price of what something is worth is what someone is willing to pay, so it can vary.

But just from paper value, it has supposedly appreciated ~16.1 million per year, besides any profit it might have.

Two billion dollars for the Clippers is an insane price. No doubt LA region has a lot to do with it. But it is also been seen as one of the crummiest franchises of the last three decades.

Overall though the sport and place the franchise is located have a lot to do with it's viability. Smaller clubs spend more of their potential profit to compete, whereas bigger market clubs, or ones with exclusive TV deals can spend a pittance and compete, or a crap ton and are still rolling in dough.

I'm sure there's more, I'm no expert, but this is just at the top of my head.

 

[BC867]

When evaluating sold price vs. purchase price, you do have to take inflation into account. 'Not saying it is significant, but it is a factor.

And, of course, TV packages add to the equation, reflecting the market.

 

[CardsFan88]

When evaluating sold price vs. purchase price, you do have to take inflation into account. 'Not saying it is significant, but it is a factor.

And, of course, TV packages add to the equation, reflecting the market.

Of course which inflation is million dollar question. 2 percent fake or 8-12 percent real. It's quite a difference.

Of course Sterling's experience going from 12 million to 2000 million, vastly exceeds that. Though at this point Sarver is probably just breaking even.

Though another factor is, what else could he hold that would keep pace with real inflation? Not much out there. So even holding steady is a win.

 

[Ronin]

I looked and didn't find this news anywhere....maybe I need thicker glasses. anyhoo

Suns' Isaiah Thomas has surgery on wrist, will return by training camp

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on...surgery-on-wrist-will-return-by-training-camp

 

[tobiazz]

I looked and didn't find this news anywhere....maybe I need thicker glasses. anyhoo

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on...surgery-on-wrist-will-return-by-training-camp

He's a lefty and it's his left wrist. That's always scary.

 

[elindholm]

He's a lefty and it's his left wrist. That's always scary.

Fortunately the Suns have three or four other PGs, so he has plenty of time to get healthy.

 

[Ronin]

Isaiah Thomas @Isaiah_Thomas2 ·
1st day of rehab was great! Now about to get this right hand better on the court, the season is almost here!! #TimeWaits4NoMan

https://twitter.com/Isaiah_Thomas2

 

[JCSunsfan]

He's a lefty and it's his left wrist. That's always scary.

The scariest thing is that he is a midget.

 

[KloD]

The scariest thing is that he is a midget.

Well he's at least one of the best at playing basketball midgets in the world. If Bledsoe is gone, we still have a hell of a PG rotation with Dragic and Thomas. Green can play starting SG this year. I like our backcourt a lot, especially if Green can repeat his performance or even improve on last season. Now we just need to figure out PF and Center rotations. It would be great if they figure out a way to turn Bledsoe into a decent PF. Well, not him... but exchange him for one.

 

[Mainstreet]

The scariest thing is that he is a midget.

He has proved over three seasons that he can play well in the NBA. This is all I need to know.

 

[Krangodnzr]

This is true, but also false, if you look at it the big picture, the value of the club is their big cash out.

That's why in 3 decades Donald Sterling, if he is forced to sell, turned a 12 million dollar investment into 2 billion dollars (before wife, state/federal tax and lawyers of course).

This wasn't always the case, and may not always be the case, but the same can be said about other expenses as well.

It also depends on the sport itself and tv deals. Yankees and Dodgers can spend that much, and still make more then most other teams. Teams with superstars like Lebron get a huge spike in merchandise.

But ultimately the big payoff is when you sell the team.

Sarver/Sarver's group bought the Suns for ~404 million in 2004. This was a high price, and higher then many thought it would go for. Forbes listed it as worth $565 million this year. Of course the price of what something is worth is what someone is willing to pay, so it can vary.

But just from paper value, it has supposedly appreciated ~16.1 million per year, besides any profit it might have.

Two billion dollars for the Clippers is an insane price. No doubt LA region has a lot to do with it. But it is also been seen as one of the crummiest franchises of the last three decades.

Overall though the sport and place the franchise is located have a lot to do with it's viability. Smaller clubs spend more of their potential profit to compete, whereas bigger market clubs, or ones with exclusive TV deals can spend a pittance and compete, or a crap ton and are still rolling in dough.

I'm sure there's more, I'm no expert, but this is just at the top of my head.

I lurk often on this board and post rarely, but I felt the need to mention one point on how much the Suns are worth. If the franchise was sold to day, I bet it goes for closer to $750 billion. Owning an NBA franchise is a rarity, and even though Phoenix is the 12th largest metro area, there is a shortage of NBA ownership opportunities.

So there would a real premium on any NBA franchise, which is why the Clippers sold for so much money. I think Balmer takes a loss on the Clippers though, since I doubt he owns the team long enough to recoup his losses.

I know locally (Seattle) they are not real optimistic about getting a team here, since the NBA isn't looking at expansion and moving most NBA franchises to Seattle wouldn't work. Only a handful of teams are in smaller markets than Seattle, and any team moving here has to compete with the Blazers for regional significance. The Seahawks have a fairly good sized market since they have regional hegemony; they basically have rights to Washington, Oregon, western Canada, Idaho, Montana, and parts of Wyoming. That's a bigger market than Phoenix which is basically only Arizona.

 

[AfroSuns]

I lurk often on this board and post rarely, but I felt the need to mention one point on how much the Suns are worth. If the franchise was sold to day, I bet it goes for closer to $750 billion.

 

[JCSunsfan]

He has proved over three seasons that he can play well in the NBA. This is all I need to know.

This was a super secret pic taken at Suns informal workouts. Thomas is on the left. Maybe its Tolliver on the right.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[AzStevenCal]

This was a super secret pic taken at Suns informal workouts. Thomas is on the left. Maybe its Tolliver on the right.

You must be registered for see images attach

I'm not seeing it. It doesn't look like the Tolliver I remember.

Steve