It will take years to undo the mess that Graves has created!!!

[Cheesebeef]

First of all, without the trade, the Cards would wanted Suggs, not Leftwich. Mac and his staff loved Suggs. The call to trade down came from way above Mac. It had nothing to do with playing a rookie QB and had nothing to do with McCown. It was a political move from above to avoid drafting Suggs. Do NOT blame McGinnis for last years draft, it was out of his hands. He had say in the personnel they drafted, as did Graves, but he did not make the call on the trade.

bottom line - we whiffed on last year's draft - hopefully it doesn't happen again - although I'm getting a little antsy with Fitz - don't know why - maybe because we drafted him.

Also - Nidan you're hide and go seek posts are getting a little annoying dude.

 

[Evil Ash]

Nidan said there was a reason we didn't draft Leftwich, that's what we were really asking about.

The reason was injury concerns. At the time of pre-draft workouts and even the draft, it wasn't clear whether or not Leftwich would ever be the same again from his broken leg (this just wasn't a normal break, it broke in like 3 places). he also seemed to be taking a long time to heal (longer than usual for a broken leg anyway)

If there weren't any injury questions about Leftwich, we wouldn't have ever had a chance to draft him.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The reason was injury concerns. At the time of pre-draft workouts and even the draft, it wasn't clear whether or not Leftwich would ever be the same again from his broken leg (this just wasn't a normal break, it broke in like 3 places). he also seemed to be taking a long time to heal (longer than usual for a broken leg anyway)

If there weren't any injury questions about Leftwich, we wouldn't have ever had a chance to draft him.

don't buy it - Lefty was healthy by then - teams above us didn't need QBs like we did. The only explanation is that we had our heads up our asses, just as we did most of last offseason.

Good Lord - the only good things that came out of last year's offseason were Dex and Anquan - and of course both of those guys are facing missing the entire year. UGH!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Evil Ash]

don't buy it - Lefty was healthy by then - teams above us didn't need QBs like we did. The only explanation is that we had our heads up our asses, just as we did most of last offseason.

From what I recall (my memory sucks sometimes so bear with me), he wasn't completely healed until Jags 2nd mini-camp. He also didn't do very well in things such as running drills before the draft because of his injuries (as well as he wasn't a good scrambling QB to begin with).

There were plenty of teams and scouts that were allegedly scared away by his injuries or else he wouldn't have made it out of the top 5. Somebody would've traded up to get him if he was completely healthy.

I'm not completely sure that was the main reason for us passing on him but I'm sure it had an effect

 

[spanky1]

Leftwich=Rohan Davey.

You figure out the outcome.

 

[Cheesebeef]

From what I recall (my memory sucks sometimes so bear with me), he wasn't completely healed until Jags 2nd mini-camp. He also didn't do very well in things such as running drills before the draft because of his injuries (as well as he wasn't a good scrambling QB to begin with).

There were plenty of teams and scouts that were allegedly scared away by his injuries or else he wouldn't have made it out of the top 5. Somebody would've traded up to get him if he was completely healthy.

I'm not completely sure that was the main reason for us passing on him but I'm sure it had an effect

could be - I thought it wasn't as big a concern - could be wrong. I still know I would have risked drafting him. He sold me in that game where his guys were carrying him to each next play in a game winning drive -playing on three broken bones. If that ain't the definition of WARRIOR I don't know what is.

 

[JeffGollin]

That's a pretty harsh headline.

Just because Dennis wants to do things his way (with his players) doesn't necessarily mean that the players Graves brought in simply suck. It simply means that - right now - they aren't fitting into Dennis' scheme of things.

At the same time, it doesn't mean that Dennis is necessarily wrong in wanting to do things his way - even if it means jettisoning players he feels he can't win with.

The season will play itself out, and then we'll know.

But I'm not ready to "say Kaddish*" quite yet over Bryant, Pace and Johnson (or the other guys brought in by Rod). It's still possible they'll rise to the occasion (albeit maybe with another team).

Patience, brothers. Play it as it lays.

(* Note - Kaddish is the Jewish prayer for the dead).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That's a pretty harsh headline.

Just because Dennis wants to do things his way (with his players) doesn't necessarily mean that the players Graves brought in simply suck. It simply means that - right now - they aren't fitting into Dennis' scheme of things.

At the same time, it doesn't mean that Dennis is necessarily wrong in wanting to do things his way - even if it means jettisoning players he feels he can't win with.

The season will play itself out, and then we'll know.

But I'm not ready to "say Kaddish*" quite yet over Bryant, Pace and Johnson (or the other guys brought in by Rod). It's still possible they'll rise to the occasion (albeit maybe with another team).

Patience, brothers. Play it as it lays.

(* Note - Kaddish is the Jewish prayer for the dead).

i'm ready to say kaddish for bryant and probably pace. problem is, with the rate the players are getting cut, we may not be able to gather a minion*.

(*Note - a "minion" is a group of ten men - or women in the reform movement 0 necessary to conduct a jewish religious service).

 

[JeffGollin]

with the rate the players are getting cut, we may not be able to gather a minion

 

[Skkorpion]

I know nothing about a "Kaddish" or "Minion", but being Irish, I've been to some wakes. That's where we all get drunk, tell lies about the departed, then just drink more and tell lies about everything.

I feel a Cards wake coming on.

 

[spanky1]

I know nothing about a "Kaddish" or "Minion", but being Irish, I've been to some wakes. That's where we all get drunk, tell lies about the departed, then just drink more and tell lies about everything.

I feel a Cards wake coming on.

skkorp,

So you are Irish.......I knew that while I took issue with some of your posts, inherently I kinda thought that should we ever meet, we'd like each other.

You have access to my "bio".......and if you were to visit it you'd see that I am Irish as well.......and very Arizonan.

A wake........lies about everything.......ain't football grand!

erin!

 

[Rats]

I know nothing about a "Kaddish" or "Minion", but being Irish, I've been to some wakes. That's where we all get drunk, tell lies about the departed, then just drink more and tell lies about everything.

I feel a Cards wake coming on.

Ohhh.....so a "wake" is a lot like what we do here.....

 

[nidan]

Nidan said there was a reason we didn't draft Leftwich, that's what we were really asking about.

I have a pretty good idea why we didn't take Suggs, concerns over was he a tweener, and the incident that he got arrested over.

I have no idea about Suggs but I would guess Russ is correct.

 

[nidan]

Also - Nidan you're hide and go seek posts are getting a little annoying dude.

Not sure what you mean by this Cheesie but if you are talking about Leftwich, the reason is simple. I wanted to give the folks here as much as I can without breaching the confidence of who told us and exactly what they told us.

My guess is that had we had the chance we might have drafted Leftwich and we had the chance further down the draft. That is a guess but it is based on what the Cards thought about him. Note: this bit is pure guesswork on my part.

 

[ajcardfan]

Not sure what you mean by this Cheesie but if you are talking about Leftwich, the reason is simple. I wanted to give the folks here as much as I can without breaching the confidence of who told us and exactly what they told us.

My guess is that had we had the chance we might have drafted Leftwich and we had the chance further down the draft. That is a guess but it is based on what the Cards thought about him. Note: this bit is pure guesswork on my part.

Are you running for political office, nidan? You just made a statement that said a lot and said nothing at the same time. If you are not a politician, you could be.

 

[Russ Smith]

Leftwich=Rohan Davey.

You figure out the outcome.

Davey has talent but his career up to now is nothing like Leftwich's career.

2800 yards as a rookie on a bad team in 13 starts, with his best WR playing in only 12 games and his 2nd best WR being Troy Edwards?

He's certainly not perfect, I do worry about his lower body he's a big guy and I fear he's going to have leg problems later as a result, but he did allright considering how late he signed and what he had to work with. He DID have Taylor so they had a running game, but overall I thought he had an excellent rookie year.

 

[spanky1]

Davey has talent but his career up to now is nothing like Leftwich's career.

2800 yards as a rookie on a bad team in 13 starts, with his best WR playing in only 12 games and his 2nd best WR being Troy Edwards?

He's certainly not perfect, I do worry about his lower body he's a big guy and I fear he's going to have leg problems later as a result, but he did allright considering how late he signed and what he had to work with. He DID have Taylor so they had a running game, but overall I thought he had an excellent rookie year.

Russ.

Rumors out of Jax are that Leftwhich is struggling so far this camp. Whether this is something to be concerned or not remains to be seen. Taylor going down changes the landscape a bit.

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ.

Rumors out of Jax are that Leftwhich is struggling so far this camp. Whether this is something to be concerned or not remains to be seen. Taylor going down changes the landscape a bit.

IN the preseason he has 8-19 with a pick, but he's not played that much and they arent' really playing their top WR's that much. My main concern with him is targets, Jimmy Smith is getting old, Troy Edwards is not very good, they really need Reggie Williams to make an impact right away.

I've read a few things on Leftwich in camp and what I read is he looks night and day from what he did last year, far more confident, far more effective going through reads and progressions, far more conscious of protecting the ball(fumbled way too much last year).

He certainly could be struggling but all I've read are the usual fluff pieces that talk about how good he looks and how talented Reggie Williams is.

 

[RedStorm]

Want to hate Graves? Feel free. But nidan is right and I am confirming that Graves did not make the call on trading down last year.

Choose not to believe us? Again, feel free. Want to still believe we'll find WMD in Iraq? Go right ahead.

But every time you post your incorrect opinion on the trade, I'll contradict you because I know you are wrong.

If Graves was not responsible for the draft last year then why did he say to "judge this team" when camp starts if he felt he had no say in the draft?

Are you saying that Graves had a say in all picks but was told to trade down and the "panic" that was percieved was not due to Graves at all? I thought that when he was hired he was given full responsibility.

Thanks

 

[CaptTurbo]

Blame Mac he was the moron in all this.

Although the trade down was good imo. Id do it every year.

But any problems this team has is due to Mac and his coaches.

 

[Gnomad]

But any problems this team has is due to Mac and his coaches.

i like that. blame the guy that's gone. I can't think of a better scapegoat.

 

[Tangodnzr]

According to a post made by irk yesterday...whom Skkorp says "believe", the order to trade down came from "the top".

I con't remember the tread it was posted on.

 

[Tangodnzr]

doh... post #74 on this thread.

I guess once more my suspicion is confirmed. A lot of people post posts here without really bothering to actually read what others have already said.

 

[Red Fury]

First of all, without the trade, the Cards would wanted Suggs, not Leftwich. Mac and his staff loved Suggs. The call to trade down came from way above Mac. It had nothing to do with playing a rookie QB and had nothing to do with McCown. It was a political move from above to avoid drafting Suggs. Do NOT blame McGinnis for last years draft, it was out of his hands. He had say in the personnel they drafted, as did Graves, but he did not make the call on the trade.

If you saw the look on Mac's face when he came out to meet the media after they botched the first round you would know that he wasn't the one calling the shots. He was obviously devasted and knew that he was screwed.