Its hard for me to say that Wilson is no longer the player he was....

[100%CardsFan]

A player that actually stuck with this team the longest of anyone on our roster, who had tears rolling down his face after the NFC Champ game, a soft spoken but qb killa hard hitting no nonsense MACHINE .... well was. and its hard for me to say. I love #24 and I really dont know if its him or the staff that has him playing this way. I think he still has it personally and think that Horton is trying to teach a 5 year old how to drive a stick shift..... I was just thinking say we trade him. Does he pull a Charles Woodson and still go to the probowl with another team? or do I need to just come to grips that his career is over?

 

[Shaun M Church]

A player that actually stuck with this team the longest of anyone on our roster, who had tears rolling down his face after the NFC Champ game, a soft spoken but qb killa hard hitting no nonsense MACHINE .... well was. and its hard for me to say. I love #24 and I really dont know if its him or the staff that has him playing this way. I think he still has it personally and think that Horton is trying to teach a 5 year old how to drive a stick shift..... I was just thinking say we trade him. Does he pull a Charles Woodson and still go to the probowl with another team? or do I need to just come to grips that his career is over?

He looked the best he's looked in over a year on Sunday. Two plays stick out in my mind immediately. In the first quarter just before Pittsburgh's first touchdown, when he clobbered Mendenhall and got called for a facemask (which wasn't). Then in the third, he smashed Ward, who had to leave the game after the hit. He was flying around the whole game, and it was also the first time this season I didn't see a wrap on his right arm — the one with the torn tendon. I think he's back, and he's going to fire up this defense. Get ready!

 

[Phrazbit]

I just feel like he is being used wrong. He never has had the speed to cover down field or play man to man and it seems like he is in coverage far more often than not lately. He always made his money playing zone and reacting to the QB or in the box blitzing and disrupting the running game.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I think Horton is wasting his talents and though some of it has been Wilson, Horton puts him where his skills are least effective

 

[cardpa]

Horton just can't see very well. He must of mistaken Wilson for Palomalu.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Wilson has always been subpar in coverage. Trading him would be impossible because he's one of the most overpaid players on the team. Who wants a 30+ yr old injury-prone safety who can't cover a fullback? Wilson missed his true calling as a WOLB in a Tampa 2 scheme IMO.

 

[MoeIsBetter]

Wilson has always been subpar in coverage. Trading him would be impossible because he's one of the most overpaid players on the team. Who wants a 30+ yr old injury-prone safety who can't cover a fullback? Wilson missed his true calling as a WOLB in a Tampa 2 scheme IMO.

No chance in hell you trade A-Dub even if someone did want him. Any other player I'm fine with being traded, but A-Dub stayed when everyone else was leaving so we could "build something here." Fitz is a close second but Adrian Wilson decided he wanted to retire here and he's gone far and above his due diligence to earn it.

BUT...that doesn't mean he needs to be our starting Strong Safety. I'd love to see him play a hybrid subbed position:

3-4 ILB: Subbed in for either ILB on plays that focus around the line of scrimmage. Adrian has always played the middle pretty well, picking off balls and going the other way. He doesn't have to be the fastest guy to play the middle, and he sure won't get burned down the seam. Big enough to cover TE's and fast enough to blitz when needed.

4-3 OLB: Essentially does what a 3-4 ILB does.

2-4-5 3rd Safety: Sometimes plays close to the line, can play the underneath routes in cover 2 or be the 3rd deep guy in cover 3 (smaller zone to cover gives him less chance of getting burned somewhere), the third safety can move all over the field because he isn't "assigned" an area to start where the SS and FS both start the play on one determined side.

At least this way you give Adrian Wilson the element of surprise. The QB has to essentially look for him because you never know where he will be or what he will be playing. He would never start at any of those positions but see some pretty significant playing time by subbing in for all of them.

And I know there is no way he will master all the positions but our Dick Lebeau protege should have no problem making Adrian Wilsons plays in the system pretty easy to grasp. If you have a guy who's been mightily successful in this league, you find out what he can still do well and milk it for what it's worth. He wants to make plays and we should be putting him in the positions to still do it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

i have always loved wilson. was stoked when we took that bizarre flyer on him in the 3rd round back in the day due to this size/speed ratio. and was stoked that he panned out. that said, i think he's done. he's never been great in coverage, and now he's just flat out awful.

if this past sunday's game was him being "back" we're in big trouble. yeah he had two plays that stood out, but he also let miller walk into the endzone without anyone being within 15 yards of him. and i'm sorry, i've never seen that happen that wide open to the steelers, so it can't be scheme. that's just wilson, AGAIN, not knowing where to be or freelancing.

it saddens me to say it, but adrian's played his last truly effective start-to-end game for the cardinals. and we have no replacement.

 

[WildBB]

He's been very banged up the last two years. If it was anyone else, we'd have needed to have his replacement in there. Problem is there is no one nearly as good as even a 60-70% healty ADub.

He was tearing it up early this preseason, but I want to wait until he's healthy again before I rush to 86 - #24! He's still better than 3/4 of the SS's starting in this league especially if you play him to his strengths and get a superior FS and nickel back playing next to him. We have to show 24 some leeway here, he's given us fans so much, I'm not ready to turn on him.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He's been very banged up the last two years. If it was anyone else, we'd have needed to have his replacement in there. Problem is there is no one nearly as good as even a 60-70% healty ADub.

He was tearing it up early this preseason, but I want to wait until he's healthy again before I rush to 86 - #24! He's still better than 3/4 of the SS's starting in this league especially if you play him to his strengths and get a superior FS and nickel back playing next to him. We have to show 24 some leeway here, he's given us fans so much, I'm not ready to turn on him.

next year, Adrian will be 33... you don't show leeway to a breaking down every season 33 year old who can't cover a bed anymore... especially at his rather pricey salary. i love AW, the tear rolling down his eye was the greatest moment in Cardinals history as far as I'm concerned, but the past is in the past and he's not part of the future next year. continuing to put him on the field just means we're going to have a liability who likely will get hurt. that's a recipe for disaster.

 

[WildBB]

next year, Adrian will be 33... you don't show leeway to a breaking down every season 33 year old who can't cover a bed anymore... especially at his rather pricey salary. i love AW, the tear rolling down his eye was the greatest moment in Cardinals history as far as I'm concerned, but the past is in the past and he's not part of the future next year. continuing to put him on the field just means we're going to have a liability who likely will get hurt. that's a recipe for disaster.

I know what your saying. And I agree there needs to be someone there who is capable of taking over. But at what price do you sign his replacement?! That route won't be any cheaper than Wilson is now, for anyone that's an upgrade who'd be willing to come to Az. I don't even know who'd be available, but generally there are only 1-2 decent players an offseason that could actually upgrade a particular position.
Drafting a rook, it's a shot in the dark at best. We just drafted the most highly touted DB in a while and look at his transition.

I know ADub isn't the player he was, but I'd like to see some more loyalty to the man, at least until he gets healthy again, and then we can make the s*** can evaluations if necessary. But yeah, get a youngster in place who he can groom next year....maybe a 3rd rounder from the ACC.

 

[joko4]

Every defensive coördinator in the league that plays Arizona next year wants AW to stay, and exactly where he's playing...a can not cover safety and you start him...com'on man
A big hit on a three yard gain does not justify not supporting rookie db's and causing 40 yd gains and many many touchdowns.
How many times has AW screwed up in the last 10 minutes in a game?
Answer, too damn many!

 

[Goldfield]

Wilson is all heart, but he cant cover anyone anymore. He needs to be a LB on passing situations and a SS on Running situations.

I also think he hurt his career by bulking up way too much for a position that needs speed to cover. Alot like David Boston got too big to play WR.

 

[Darkside]

I find myself agreeing most with MoeIsBetter. I don't necessarily agree with his usage, but it couldn't and wouldn't be worse than how he's being utilized now.

Anyone who doesn't have at least a semblance of empathy for Adub just isn't a true Cardinal fan. He was our best player (not just on Defense) for a long time. He rode out the crappiness of the Cardinals. He stayed when other talent left the building to go win playoff games and earn big bank. He's a loyal Cardinal, through thick and thin, and that should count for something.

Most importantly, what MoeIsBetter said is really key: that Adub still wants to make plays and has the talent to do that. You have to find what he's still good at and utilize that. He's aged. We all know that, he knows that, but he's still got game left. Putting him in pass coverage is so...I don't know...ignorant, that it's hard for me to blame Adub entirely.

When I picture the Adub of the past, what I see is a mental image of him slicing through the Offensive line and hitting a RB and just plastering him, or hitting a QB and just killing him. We haven't seen any of that, really, since 08. Maybe a little in 09. He's not a run-stuffer anymore, and rarely rushes the QB. We got him in coverage and trying to QB the defense. He's really taken over Dansby's job of calling out plays and pointing guys into position, and that should never ever ever be his job (it should be Washington's job, but he's a noob).

What baffles me is that if you're (as a coach) saying he can't rush the QB anymore (like Jerry Porter) because of age and lack of speed then why on earth do you drop him in coverage? I don't understand it. If he's too slow to rush (going forward!) the QB, then why do you have him back-peddling to cover TE's? It's totally illogical. It's almost like they have no clue what to do with him.

(And yes, I know this is a business, but loyalty should count for something, especially in this organization. When all anyone talks about is cheapness from the front office and holding the purse strings, I would think loyalty like his would stand out. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe nobody cares, but I think he deserves more respect than he's getting. He was an A+ safety at one time and stayed with this crap organization because of loyalty. Surely the fans can show some of that back. He's still considered one of the best safeties to play this game, and that's on our team, so that's gotta be hard. Who knows what he could have been had he left for a more, let's say, aggressive organization all "about winning". He didn't do that, he stayed here. Don't care who you are, you gotta give props for that)

 

[Cheesebeef]

I find myself agreeing most with MoeIsBetter. I don't necessarily agree with his usage, but it couldn't and wouldn't be worse than how he's being utilized now.

Anyone who doesn't have at least a semblance of empathy for Adub just isn't a true Cardinal fan. He was our best player (not just on Defense) for a long time. He rode out the crappiness of the Cardinals. He stayed when other talent left the building to go win playoff games and earn big bank. He's a loyal Cardinal, through thick and thin, and that should count for something.

it did count for something... a HUGE contract for a guy who was at very end of his prime. You can empathize for AW a ton (I do), but that doesn't mean you should hurt your team in the process by keeping him on the team next year when he will inevitably break down again and be even worse then he is now.

Most importantly, what MoeIsBetter said is really key: that Adub still wants to make plays and has the talent to do that. You have to find what he's still good at and utilize that. He's aged. We all know that, he knows that, but he's still got game left. Putting him in pass coverage is so...I don't know...ignorant, that it's hard for me to blame Adub entirely.

When I picture the Adub of the past, what I see is a mental image of him slicing through the Offensive line and hitting a RB and just plastering him, or hitting a QB and just killing him. We haven't seen any of that, really, since 08. Maybe a little in 09. He's not a run-stuffer anymore, and rarely rushes the QB. We got him in coverage and trying to QB the defense. He's really taken over Dansby's job of calling out plays and pointing guys into position, and that should never ever ever be his job (it should be Washington's job, but he's a noob).

What baffles me is that if you're (as a coach) saying he can't rush the QB anymore (like Jerry Porter) because of age and lack of speed then why on earth do you drop him in coverage? I don't understand it. If he's too slow to rush (going forward!) the QB, then why do you have him back-peddling to cover TE's? It's totally illogical. It's almost like they have no clue what to do with him.

I think they have no idea what to do with him because they realize (sadly) there's not much he CAN do anymore... especially playing injured like he is.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He's still considered one of the best safeties to play this game, and that's on our team, so that's gotta be hard. Who knows what he could have been had he left for a more, let's say, aggressive organization all "about winning". He didn't do that, he stayed here. Don't care who you are, you gotta give props for that)

props he gets... a starting position on our team with a huge salary he shouldn't. and no one still considers him one of the best safeties to play this game right now. that guy is in the past and if we continue to live in it, we'll be stuck there... just like Wiz is stuck with Porter/Haggans.

 

[Darkside]

it did count for something... a HUGE contract for a guy who was at very end of his prime. You can empathize for AW a ton (I do), but that doesn't mean you should hurt your team in the process by keeping him on the team next year when he will inevitably break down again and be even worse then he is now.



I think they have no idea what to do with him because they realize (sadly) there's not much he CAN do anymore... especially playing injured like he is.

I'm not saying hurt the team by continuing what we're doing. Not at all. However, I do think he can be utilized more efficiently. He's still got game to give, still got plays to make. I'm not even saying start him (which is why I referred to MoeIsBetter who advocated playing him in certain spots in certain formations). And I disagree that they paid him at the end of his prime (it was late, sure), I think they paid him near his prime. Maybe a couple years late, so I'll give you that, he probably deserved more $$ earlier. But again, that speaks to his character, in my opinion.

I again disagree. He can do things. I'm not sure what those things are, because all we've seen is him being torched dropping in coverage.

My concern is different than yours. I think they're just leaving him in because he's the most knowledgeable player they have (like it or not) and he's the one calling out the plays and pointing and barking and telling dudes were to be. If that's all he's good for, if that's why he's still starting, and that alone, then it's ridiculous. He still has plays to make.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm not saying hurt the team by continuing what we're doing. Not at all. However, I do think he can be utilized more efficiently. He's still got game to give, still got plays to make. I'm not even saying start him (which is why I referred to MoeIsBetter who advocated playing him in certain spots in certain formations). And I disagree that they paid him at the end of his prime (it was late, sure), I think they paid him near his prime. Maybe a couple years late, so I'll give you that, he probably deserved more $$ earlier. But again, that speaks to his character, in my opinion.

I again disagree. He can do things. I'm not sure what those things are, because all we've seen is him being torched dropping in coverage.

My concern is different than yours. I think they're just leaving him in because he's the most knowledgeable player they have (like it or not) and he's the one calling out the plays and pointing and barking and telling dudes were to be. If that's all he's good for, if that's why he's still starting, and that alone, then it's ridiculous. He still has plays to make.

I just don't see it with him anymore... and if the reason they are keeping him in there is to call plays, with the disaster that the secondary's been with miscommunication, they might as well put ouchie out there at this point.

 

[Darkside]

props he gets... a starting position on our team with a huge salary he shouldn't. and no one still considers him one of the best safeties to play this game right now. that guy is in the past and if we continue to live in it, we'll be stuck there... just like Wiz is stuck with Porter/Haggans.

I've no problem if you want to bench him and play someone else until they figure out what to do with him, but who would you replace him with?

And you're wrong when you say no one considers him one of the best safeties in the game. He's one of a few players in history in the 20-20 club at safety, with 20 INT's and 20 sacks. He's also made more tackles as a safety than almost anyone (I'll have to look up the #'s again). He's going to the HOF. Perhaps he doesn't instill the fear he once did, but he's a HOF safety, there's no doubt about it. HOF safety and we're acting like he's losing us games. Perhaps we can look at some other players on our team first before putting the blame on Adub.

 

[Darkside]

I just don't see it with him anymore... and if the reason they are keeping him in there is to call plays, with the disaster that the secondary's been with miscommunication, they might as well put ouchie out there at this point.

This I agree with totally. I don't see it either. There's only two options, either he's old and done or being used incorrectly, and I happen to believe the latter.

(Edit: I should preface that, I think he's old, not sure if he's done. There's no doubt they are using him to QB the defense, I've taped every game and went back, and he's the one lining everyone up and shouting assignments. It's him, not Wash, the way it should be, like it was with Dansby).

 

[Duckjake]

I still think that ADub hasn't been effective ever since the NFL started penalizing and fining him for the way he hit people. The guy made the pro bowl for his crushing tackles and now the league says he can't do that.

Can't hit like you used to combined with getting older is not a good recipe for success for a guy like Adrian Wilson.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I've no problem if you want to bench him and play someone else until they figure out what to do with him, but who would you replace him with?

why don't you read what I actually wrote. I've never said I wanted to bench him this season. But I don't think he should be part of the team NEXT season considering his salary, propensity to get injured, getting older and just losing what made him special.

And you're wrong when you say no one considers him one of the best safeties in the game.

you said people STILL consider him one of the best in the game. that implies he's STILL playing at that level and people think of him that way... which is just incredibly far from the truth. But even if people considered his career great (which I do), that has no bearing on how he's playing NOW. And NOW he's not good.

He's one of a few players in history in the 20-20 club at safety, with 20 INT's and 20 sacks. He's also made more tackles as a safety than almost anyone (I'll have to look up the #'s again). He's going to the HOF. Perhaps he doesn't instill the fear he once did, but he's a HOF safety, there's no doubt about it. HOF safety and we're acting like he's losing us games.

what he did in the past is great to think about but it has NOTHING to do with the present. The guy has lost it. it sucks. He was one of my favorite players. sadly, there's nothing behind him, so he keeps playing... but none of that changes the fact that he's had a HOF CAREER but he's been awful this season. He (amongst others) IS losing us games... there's sadly just nothing we can do about it.

 

[Darkside]

Don't get me wrong Cheese, I don't know if you're mistaken or not, I just disagree with you. I think Adub can still add something to this team, but not the way he's being used. And again, I don't even think his position or errors is the problem with this team, it's only one small part.

I just respect the hell out of the guy, for staying. It's hard to stay with crap and believe and keep trying to build when you're the best thing they have going for it. That is a hard job. I do understand your point, about it being a business and he's not actually helping us win games, I get that. But he isn't the reason we're losing either.

 

[Darkside]

I still think that ADub hasn't been effective ever since the NFL started penalizing and fining him for the way he hit people. The guy made the pro bowl for his crushing tackles and now the league says he can't do that.

Can't hit like you used to combined with getting older is not a good recipe for success for a guy like Adrian Wilson.

This.

Totally agree, good post.

Who was it he hit few years back and they had a cow? Some Bills player I think, he creamed the guy, knocked him out of the game in the first quarter (it was maybe the first play). In any case, you have a valid point.

 

[Darkside]

why don't you read what I actually wrote. I've never said I wanted to bench him this season. But I don't think he should be part of the team NEXT season considering his salary, propensity to get injured, getting older and just losing what made him special.



you said people STILL consider him one of the best in the game. that implies he's STILL playing at that level and people think of him that way... which is just incredibly far from the truth. But even if people considered his career great (which I do), that has no bearing on how he's playing NOW. And NOW he's not good.



what he did in the past is great to think about but it has NOTHING to do with the present. The guy has lost it. it sucks. He was one of my favorite players. sadly, there's nothing behind him, so he keeps playing... but none of that changes the fact that he's had a HOF CAREER but he's been awful this season. He (amongst others) IS losing us games... there's sadly just nothing we can do about it.

Another good post, but I think you're totally mistaken when you say he's lost it. Put him back in the schemes about 5 years ago and tell me if he's lost it? You think he can't make those plays? My point is he's got game left and isn't being used right. I don't know how you can argue that point, you seem to like the guy and understand his game, and it's obvious they haven't used him correctly in 2 or 3 years...