It's not over!!!

[Kel Varnsen]

Alright guys, this came from the ESPN board, but it's too hilarious to pass up...

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Ha. Someone should get a Ginobili jersey and put Louganis on it instead.

 

[SASpursfan]

Mribink, thanks for clearing that up. I wasnt clear on the definition on goaltend. But now i think i am.


Yes, as someone mentioned it was a great block. Amare finally showed some passion and desire other than on the offensive end.

And someone mentioned that this should have not been mentioned on this thread, sorry but i was just too lazy to start another one.

 

[mribnik]

Mribink, thanks for clearing that up. I wasnt clear on the definition on goaltend. But now i think i am.


Yes, as someone mentioned it was a great block. Amare finally showed some passion and desire other than on the offensive end.

And someone mentioned that this should have not been mentioned on this thread, sorry but i was just too lazy to start another one.

Controversial goaltending calls have been somewhat common for the Suns this season, so I've relived the definition several times. It's just that a blocked dunked happens so rarely that nobody really knows what the goaltending rules on it are anyways. Oh, and don't worry about changing the topic, that happens at the time. We're playing the Spurs and your a Spurs fan and well, you get the picture.

 

[Chaz]

Controversial goaltending calls have been somewhat common for the Suns this season, so I've relived the definition several times. It's just that a blocked dunked happens so rarely that nobody really knows what the goaltending rules on it are anyways. Oh, and don't worry about changing the topic, that happens at the time. We're playing the Spurs and your a Spurs fan and well, you get the picture.

LOL

This is our rallying cry thread!

I don't want it tained with a bunch of BS about bad calls.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

BTW did anyone notice the great block at the end of the game by Amare was actually a goaltend. The ball was above the cylinder. Although it was still in Tims hands. But with how fast things happened how could have a ref seen it.

i don't know the official regarding this play, but i don't think your comment holds water logically. the ball was still in duncan's hand, thus it wasn't a shot. if it's purely because the ball was in the cylinder that you claim it's a goaltend then by definition all dunks are offensive goaltending as the ball is in the cylinder and being touched by an offensive player. logically if a player has not shot a ball a defender has the right to impede the shot, regardless of where the ball is. anyone know the official rule?

and nice complaint by duncan after the play. he's a soft bitch.

 

[mribnik]

i don't know the official regarding this play, but i don't think your comment holds water logically. the ball was still in duncan's hand, thus it wasn't a shot. if it's purely because the ball was in the cylinder that you claim it's a goaltend then by definition all dunks are offensive goaltending as the ball is in the cylinder and being touched by an offensive player. logically if a player has not shot a ball a defender has the right to impede the shot, regardless of where the ball is. anyone know the official rule?

and nice complaint by duncan after the play. he's a soft bitch.

I replied a few posts earlier regarding one part of the goaltending rule but I couldn't find a rule regarding a Dunk attempt. On sportscenter they just said it was legal because it was a Dunk attempt.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

if we're gonna talk about bs calls . . . how about when ginobili drove the lane unimpeded (surprise, surprise) kung-fu kicked steven hunter (who was stationary and not making contact with ginobili) and hunter got the foul 'cuz ginobili threw himself all over the floor like he was t-boned by a ryder truck?

i love ginobili's savvy, but his theatrics are lame. and you asked wouldn't any player writhe all over the place after that amare-ginobili snafu . . . no. only vlade divac in his prime. it's a lame attempt to take advantage of the refs. it's not basketball. but it works, so good for ginobili for bastardizing the sport. he's good enough that he shouldn't have to resort such tactics. it's a shame.

 

[mribnik]

if we're gonna talk about bs calls . . . how about when ginobili drove the lane unimpeded (surprise, surprise) kung-fu kicked steven hunter (who was stationary and not making contact with ginobili) and hunter got the foul 'cuz ginobili threw himself all over the floor like he was t-boned by a ryder truck?

i love ginobili's savvy, but his theatrics are lame. and you asked wouldn't any player writhe all over the place after that amare-ginobili snafu . . . no. only vlade divac in his prime. it's a lame attempt to take advantage of the refs. it's not basketball. but it works, so good for ginobili for bastardizing the sport. he's good enough that he shouldn't have to resort such tactics. it's a shame.

Ugh, thanks for making me relive it. I was going crazy during the chat because that was clearly a knee right into Hunter.

 

[SASpursfan]

Ouchie the clown how can you claim Duncan is a softie after the outstanding performances in the first 3 games. Are you saying that the Suns have been beaten by a softie? Look at how the Suns changed their defense in regards to this 'softie'... Duncan was getting doubled quickly by the suns as he got the ball. D'antoni finallly realized that his team cant guard Duncan one on one.
Unfortunately, our shooters didnt do their job and our freethrows were pathetic. If any of those two were better this series would have been over.

 

[cly2tw]

Ouchie the clown how can you claim Duncan is a softie after the outstanding performances in the first 3 games. Are you saying that the Suns have been beaten by a softie? Look at how the Suns changed their defense in regards to this 'softie'... Duncan was getting doubled quickly by the suns as he got the ball. D'antoni finallly realized that his team cant guard Duncan one on one.
Unfortunately, our shooters didnt do their job and our freethrows were pathetic. If any of those two were better this series would have been over.

I thought JoeJ did a great job doubling him forcing a couple of turnovers without TD being able to find a teammate easily. I don't remember too many missed open jumpers other than Parker's. I think this tactic also wears TD down a bit more than in the previous 3 games. This makes a difference both for FT and end of the game performance!

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Now about the flop that he did in the 4th quarter, when I first saw the play it looked as if Amare just decked him and I wanted a technical called on him. But upon further review, I did notice Manu actting as if he got hit. However, what would any other player do. A player makes a move right into him, why not and try and sell to the refs.

I can understand this line, since Manu is on your team.

However, step outside the home team realm for a second.

It is a good idea to try and "sell" the refs I guess on contact. The goal is to win the game, so try to get every advantage I suppose. However, for the better of the game - don't you hate flopping? I mean Q does it too, doesn't it bother you?

Win the game right. Take the hits, don't complain, and don't fake contact. The officials have a hard enough job as it is, making it harder for them will only hurt the NBA product - and the fans.

 

[SASpursfan]

Grahamcracker consider how difficult this would be if flopping is gonna give an advantage to the player who flops and the refs buy it.

Consider team A playin team B. If team A decides to flop against team B and team B decides they are not gonna flop for the sake of making the game better. Then obviously team A is at an advantage if the refs are gonna call it. That would make team B's chancing of winning more difficult. So until every team decides that for the better of the game noone is gonna ever flop again then it will stop. But do you ever see this happening realistically? Its part of the game now.

Consider how many players pretend to take a shot when fouled even if not in the act of shooting. They do it to get to the free throw line and possibly some free points. Teams are gonna use what ever they can to try and gain an advantage over another team. The objective is to win.

 

[cly2tw]

Grahamcracker consider how difficult this would be if flopping is gonna give an advantage to the player who flops and the refs buy it.

Consider team A playin team B. If team A decides to flop against team B and team B decides they are not gonna flop for the sake of making the game better. Then obviously team A is at an advantage if the refs are gonna call it. That would make team B's chancing of winning more difficult. So until every team decides that for the better of the game noone is gonna ever flop again then it will stop. But do you ever see this happening realistically? Its part of the game now.

Consider how many players pretend to take a shot when fouled even if not in the act of shooting. They do it to get to the free throw line and possibly some free points. Teams are gonna use what ever they can to try and gain an advantage over another team. The objective is to win.

Agree. Graham, it's called the Public Good problem in economics. In a nutshell, the public interest is if there were no flopping but every individual (team) has an incentive to flop no matter the others do it or not, since it's impossible for the refs to objectively judge it.

 

[green machine]

Graham and I were chatting, and it comes down to a game like tonight, the refs weren't buying the flop as much, and it caught up with the Spurs, in the mold of uncontested layups/dunks/shots. Once the Spurs gain this reputation, especially a guy like Manu, the refs will stop calling it, and it may even come back to bite the Spurs in the ass when they don't get actual fouls called.

 

[az1965]

and nice complaint by duncan after the play. he's a soft bitch.

The entire Spurs team including Pop is a bitching team... I haven't seen so much bitching by any team ever.

 

[cly2tw]

Graham and I were chatting, and it comes down to a game like tonight, the refs weren't buying the flop as much, and it caught up with the Spurs, in the mold of uncontested layups/dunks/shots. Once the Spurs gain this reputation, especially a guy like Manu, the refs will stop calling it, and it may even come back to bite the Spurs in the ass when they don't get actual fouls called.

This is right. But our coaches need to protest after games for that. And they might just have done that. Offensively, Amare is among the cleanest bigman in the NBA, yet guys like Evans, Horry and Manu had been setting him up for off. and loose-ball fouls by flopping without any real contact. The refs must have reviewed the films and no more inclined to call it on the flop. Amare got a T last game when Horry provoked him and then flopped. This time the same thing by Manu after that rebound didn't work, nor did Parker's and Mohammed's. There is still some justice!

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Graham and I were chatting, and it comes down to a game like tonight, the refs weren't buying the flop as much, and it caught up with the Spurs, in the mold of uncontested layups/dunks/shots. Once the Spurs gain this reputation, especially a guy like Manu, the refs will stop calling it, and it may even come back to bite the Spurs in the ass when they don't get actual fouls called.

Exactly. If the Spurs get to the finals, they would be my pick to win. However, the flopping isn't just being noticed by their opponents - it is getting national recognition now. It is very possible that if they flop as much as they do as a team right now, that it could wind up costing them some games in the finals if the officials decide to ignore it.


Obviously flopping will not go away completely. The Spurs however take it to an extreme - it is a team practice. I do believe that it will eventually become more of a disadvantage than an advantage - and that they will tone it down next season more. It is part of the game, for better or worse, but the Spurs take it to levels that will not last.

 

[PhxGametime]

If any of those two were better this series would have been over.

If Joe Johnson, wasn't out the first two games, this series would probably be tied, with Suns having homecourt but it's not...


Well I believe the next game is June 1st (my birthday) and maybe I bring luck to the team, as George O'Brien did not too long ago.

 

[Errntknght]

As long as you don't try to get legalistic about it, there is no problem recognizing flops. Tell the refs to call a technical foul on the flopper for unsportsmanlike conduct and if they call it just half the time, flopping as we now know it will come to a sudden halt. The penalty is then about equal to the gain and in addition there is the stigma of unsportsmanlike conduct. I can't believe how people make something so simple to deal with into some monumental difficulty.

If you really have trouble telling flops, just figure that every time a player hits the floor without an opponent in contact with him as he goes down, it's a flop. You'd be right about ninety percent of the time. And you'd miss a few flops, too, to balance things out.

 

[Billythekid]

Are those legal screens Tim Duncan sets?

 

[Amare32]

JJ's injury hurt us in the worse way for the conference finals. Without him in the first two games It basically out us in too tough a spot.Even though he returned for game 3, It was always going to be tough to win both in San Antonio. As mentioned I would bet on this series being 2-2 with JJ around. I expect us to win game 5 at home, we havn't lost 3 in a row at home all year and we are due to beat them there. JJ is back and the crowd will be pumped up for him. That said the law of averages will likely mean the spurs win this series in 6. Would anyone be dissapointed if that happened with JJ missing the first two games? honestly I wouldn't.

 

[KANIDJA]

I think that if JJ played from the start it would be 3-1 Suns. He means so much to this team, especially in the 4th quarter. Marion is not guarded by Bowen, he cretaes his own shot, big body when doubling, excellent 3 point shooter, good defender, takes pressure off of Nash, enables us to play big lineup when Nash is out....

Also, has anyone noticed how much TDuncan complains to the refs??? He is so annoying hopefully the give him a tech in the next game after Amare dunks on him and gets and one.
Amare is just a problem child. Keep toying with them big fella...

 

[Joe Mama]

Let's not get carried away here. The Phoenix Suns, and a specially coach D'Antoni, did their fair share of complaining to the officials last night. They had to complain. They were getting worked over pretty badly in the first half.

What a game.

SASpursfan, I don't feel like looking at the exact rule, but it is not goaltending if the ball is still in the offensive player's hand. That was a fantastic block. That said, you are one classy fan. I don't think anyone here would argue that. I think it's been great having you contribute here over the last three games.

Joe

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The entire Spurs team including Pop is a bitching team... I haven't seen so much bitching by any team ever.

i don't know about that, the mavs, as a whole bitched a lot more than i expected them to and honestly i've thought that spurs' bitching has been somewhat less (other than ginobili and parker who bitch nonstop - i mean, parker was complaining about the call that his foot was out of bounds . . . how the hell can you argue THAT call???) i expected. pops hasn't been that bad.

and when i called duncan a soft bitch it was only in direct relation to the fact that he cried right after getting his dunk packed. soft bitch.

 

[frdbtr]

Grahamcracker consider how difficult this would be if flopping is gonna give an advantage to the player who flops and the refs buy it.

Consider team A playin team B. If team A decides to flop against team B and team B decides they are not gonna flop for the sake of making the game better. Then obviously team A is at an advantage if the refs are gonna call it. That would make team B's chancing of winning more difficult. So until every team decides that for the better of the game noone is gonna ever flop again then it will stop. But do you ever see this happening realistically? Its part of the game now.

Consider how many players pretend to take a shot when fouled even if not in the act of shooting. They do it to get to the free throw line and possibly some free points. Teams are gonna use what ever they can to try and gain an advantage over another team. The objective is to win.

The solution for this problem has nothing to do with whether teams decide to quit flopping or not. The solution for the problem is for the refs to legitimately call it when it is offensive foul and vice versa when it is a block. NBA reffing is pathetic, they continuously bail out lazy defense by calling offensive fouls.