It's time for Fans to take a stand and get the Real Refs back

[kerouac9]

150K at 20 games (including pre season) at 3 hours per game = $2,500 an hour! OK add in another 2 hours of prep time and it is $1500 an hour. That's almost as much as my Plumber makes. Not bad for a weekend job.

I assume you're being half in jest, but keep in mind that (obviously) the officials have a very specialized skill set. Clearly guys with some time as football fans and lower-level officiating experience just can't come in and do this job.

I have absolutely no problem with the compensation for officials. Every one of these games with replacement refs illustrate that these guys are worth every penny.

 

[Pariah]

How do you know that?

Because they're capable human beings, and that's what we do--we learn.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Because they're capable human beings, and that's what we do--we learn.

Sure... I have serious doubts that this group can "learn" enough over the next 8-10 weeks that would make us forget they are scabs... Hope I'm wrong.

 

[kerouac9]

Because they're capable human beings, and that's what we do--we learn.

That's fine, but it's not like they weren't officials before they came to the NFL level. They were; they've had their 10,000 hours of officiating, or something close.

Expecting a quantum leap in their ability to understand and apply the rules, and not get bullied by the players and coaches, doesn't seem to be a reasonable expectation.

 

[82CardsGrad]

That's fine, but it's not like they weren't officials before they came to the NFL level. They were; they've had their 10,000 hours of officiating, or something close.

Expecting a quantum leap in their ability to understand and apply the rules, and not get bullied by the players and coaches, doesn't seem to be a reasonable expectation.

This...

 

[Pariah]

I didn't put a time stamp on it. It may take an entire season and offseason. I don't care. I'm disgusted by the regular refs demands. F them. There's a pretty significant recession going on and these already well-off businessmen, lawyers and bankers are asking for a pension? Yeah, bad time to be making a money grab. If America was prospering I'd likely have a much more tolerant view of it. It probably wouldn't even be on my radar. As it is, it seriously pisses me off.

We still have football and it's still fair. The NFL will adjust. The new refs will adjust. The players and the fans will adjust. Life will go on.

 

[oaken1]

I didn't put a time stamp on it. It may take an entire season and offseason. I don't care. I'm disgusted by the regular refs demands. F them. There's a pretty significant recession going on and these already well-off businessmen, lawyers and bankers are asking for a pension? Yeah, bad time to be making a money grab. If America was prospering I'd likely have a much more tolerant view of it. It probably wouldn't even be on my radar. As it is, it seriously pisses me off.

We still have football and it's still fair. The NFL will adjust. The new refs will adjust. The players and the fans will adjust. Life will go on.

I agree....and while yes, these new guys have x number of hours officiating, the rules and speed of the game are far different from the lower college ranks...hell, from any other level of football......every other officialin the league started at the bottom and worked their way through the ranks...the came from the same places these new guys came from...and the new guys will adjust just as they did...the difference is the old guys came in one at a time and had other experienced officials to help them make the leap to the nfl...the new guys do not have that crutch, and are still doing an admirable job.

every week we as fans see penalties that go uncalled....have done so for decades really, but way more so over the past decade......but we also saw the announcers rarely mention those penalties...or write them off as, "well, that happens every game" or," you cant catch them all", or even," well, at least it is nice to see the refs just let the players play...."

why?...because they know the old refs...have dinner with them....have played in games in which they officiated,...they are friends and colleagues....whereas these new guys,...well, they are outsiders and just not part of the nfl family......

there has not been a good official in the nfl since Red Cashion retired... they damn sure do not deserve to be paid any more.... stick it out with the new guys and by next season it is all distant memories, and ed Hochuoulli (how the hell do you spell that?) can be happy in his law practice while getting sympathy from all of his buddies over how bad the league screwed him over....

 

[Duckjake]

You here different figures from different sources, but I would guess your numbers are grossly understated. Also, I assume the NFL has invented some Star Trek style teleporters that gets them to and from the games in nano-seconds if you aren't counting the travel time when calculating their pay per hour? And, I assume the refs just come jogging right into the stadium right at kick-off and bolt right when the clocks hit 0:00 as well?

Not saying the refs are not overpaid (they are), but I'd bet if you added up the real time they spend planning for, travelling to/from, and time spent at the stadium, the time commitment is a lot closer to a full-time job than a 3-hour a week job.

I'm pulling this number completely out of my ass, but if your employer made 20% profit in the past year, and then during your compensation discussion they told you they were going to reward your service by cutting your pay, cutting your benefits, and hiring people that would be trained to do your job and potentially replace you, you wouldn't be super thrilled about that result -- no matter how overpaid you were. I'm not saying that I think the refs deserve what they are asking for, but I do understand why they are pretty pissed off in how they are being treated by the NFL.

Nobody takes those type things into consideration when calculating how much someone is making per hour. Only the time on the job counts. Not traveling to and from work. You never hear someone say they make 14.87 per hour instead of $16 per hour because of commuting time.

And if my employer came and explained that defined benefit plans just don't work anymore because people are living so much longer and they would bankrupt the future of the Company I'd be willing to talk. A lot of people have advocated full time officials. Something I'm in favor of the NFL enacting.

 

[kerouac9]

Nobody takes those type things into consideration when calculating how much someone is making per hour. Only the time on the job counts. Not traveling to and from work.

And if my employer came and explained that defined benefit plans just don't work anymore because people are living so much longer and they would bankrupt the future of the Company I'd be willing to talk. A lot of people have advocated full time officials. Something I'm in favor of the NFL enacting.

1) Defined benefit plans aren't in danger of bankrupting the NFL. We're talking about $3 million a season for a multi-trillion-dollar business.

2) The officials' union is willing to talk, but the NFL is holding fast on no-compromise on this issue.

 

[Duckjake]

1) Defined benefit plans aren't in danger of bankrupting the NFL. We're talking about $3 million a season for a multi-trillion-dollar business.

2) The officials' union is willing to talk, but the NFL is holding fast on no-compromise on this issue.

1) You don't know that because the benefits are paid in the future not this week. What happens if, for instance, the new rules on contact cause a severe drop in ratings for TV and the new TV contracts drop by 85% and you are still on the hook for all those benefit payments?

http://www.governing.com/columns/urban-notebook/pensions-threaten-to-sink-cities.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444900304577581162498135058.html

2)From what I heard the Officials are holding fast on a no compromise on their side of the issue as well.

 

[Shane]

I much prefer the scrub refs

 

[kerouac9]

28 penalties on Monday Night Football, and the game lasted nearly 4 hours.

Really great work, fellas.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Yet another total failure of a game due to the officiating in the Sea/Packers game tonight. That led to a tragic, tragic ending... The game is being detroyed by these scabs...

 

[MadCardDisease]

Unbelievable!

 

[wilycoyote24]

The NFL is dead to me until they are back. I did it once (after the NHL lockout of nearly a decade ago) and I can do it again. I don't want to see this happen to the Cards more than I need to follow this crap!

 

[Duckjake]

The NFL is dead to me until they are back. I did it once (after the NHL lockout of nearly a decade ago) and I can do it again. I don't want to see this happen to the Cards more than I need to follow this crap!

LOL I can see it now. The Cards finish 13-3 and win the Super Bowl and get no credit because everyone says we only won because of the replacement refs.

Then the NFLRA demands we give up our Lombardi Trophy and we don't and for the next 87 years the Cards don't win because of the NFLRA curse.

 

[DoTheDew]

If the fans really want to take a stand, don't go to games. Don't watch games.

This site suggests not buying beer/food at games. I'm pretty sure most of that money goes to the vendors moreso than the NFL. Some of it might go to the stadium owners which are sometimes but not always the team owners. Some of it might go to the city. Point is, NFL isn't going to change their stance because a few people stop buying beer or hot dogs and nachos at games, but they will if stadiums stop selling out and games are blacked out all over the place.

 

[DeAnna]

Gather round the boob tube, here's what's going to happen.

Until the replacements actually cost a team a game w/ an extra TO or replay, the NFL can and will just sit. They're not losing any money, the refs are.

I think THIS happened tonight.

 

[az240zz]

I just love the political rhetoric here,concerning unions,. Someone mentioned the economy, NFL still selling out almost everygame, ticket prices aren't coming down, what poor economy is the NFL seeing?

 

[Pariah]

Someone mentioned the economy, NFL still selling out almost everygame, ticket prices aren't coming down, what poor economy is the NFL seeing?

I mentioned the economy. I don't really care what economy the NFL or other multi-million dollar corporations are seeing--including the refs. It's not about the NFL's profits--its about the working man not making it and here you have rich people arguing about how much richer they should get. My point wasn't that the economics of the deal wouldn't work out for the NFL, but that it's a bad time to be making a money grab by the refs.

Last night's finish was HORRIBLE. But, I still despise the thought of giving into the refs demands.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Sure... I have serious doubts that this group can "learn" enough over the next 8-10 weeks that would make us forget they are scabs... Hope I'm wrong.

True.

I have been saying that about the old refs for years tho.

The most ridiculous thing about this thread ? That we are suggesting the fans take care of the situation ?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

Yeah, cause the wants and needs of the fans were so important when the players were locked out.

Nutz to that.

The fans are only leverage in the eyes of the NFL. Screw them. What do I owe the NFL business ? Nothing. I pay them money, and they throw bodies out on the field for my to watch, and for me to cheer on to support the colors I stand behind.

That's it. I believe my job description as a fan is, be loyal to the colors and other fans that wear said colors, cheer when we do go, boo when we do bad, and make sure to spend money. Done.

 

[kerouac9]

I mentioned the economy. I don't really care what economy the NFL or other multi-million dollar corporations are seeing--including the refs. It's not about the NFL's profits--its about the working man not making it and here you have rich people arguing about how much richer they should get. My point wasn't that the economics of the deal wouldn't work out for the NFL, but that it's a bad time to be making a money grab by the refs.

Last night's finish was HORRIBLE. But, I still despise the thought of giving into the refs demands.

Hilarious. You're siding with management in a labor dispute because... you want to support labor? Maybe the refs should disband their union so that they can get screwed by the NFL individually instead of collectively.

Labor is so bent out of shape that the unions were dismantled that they're turning against what is left of the organization of labor because they're jealous of the rights they still enjoy.

Completely embarrassing. Kind of the definition of being a "class traitor."

 

[Mulli]

I mentioned the economy. I don't really care what economy the NFL or other multi-million dollar corporations are seeing--including the refs. It's not about the NFL's profits--its about the working man not making it and here you have rich people arguing about how much richer they should get. My point wasn't that the economics of the deal wouldn't work out for the NFL, but that it's a bad time to be making a money grab by the refs.

Last night's finish was HORRIBLE. But, I still despise the thought of giving into the refs demands.

You despise the refs exercising their rights? Great. Good job.

 

[Pariah]

If you want to lump my disdain for the timing of the ref money grab into siding with management over the worker, okay, good on you. But I'd prefer to look at each case individually--and the refs don't represent most of America's workers.

I standby my opinion. The refs are asking for too much at the wrong time.

And, Mulli, I don't despise the refs; I don't know the refs. I despise what they're asking for, and I despise the thought of them getting it while a whot shitload of americans can't even find one job these guys are asking for a pension from their second six-figure job--and holding the NFL by the balls to try and get it? I think that's disgusting.

Again, if you guys want to turn this into "Pariah is a corporate stooge," go right ahead. But you're wrong about that.

 

[Mulli]

If you want to lump my disdain for the timing of the ref money grab into siding with management over the worker, okay, good on you. But I'd prefer to look at each case individually--and the refs don't represent most of America's workers.

I standby my opinion. The refs are asking for too much at the wrong time.

And, Mulli, I don't despise the refs; I don't know the refs. I despise what they're asking for, and I despise the thought of them getting it while a whot shitload of americans can't even find one job these guys are asking for a pension from their second six-figure job--and holding the NFL by the balls to try and get it? I think that's disgusting.

Again, if you guys want to turn this into "Pariah is a corporate stooge," go right ahead. But you're wrong about that.

You are a stooge for not telling me how awesome the hiking is in Aspen, but the food is kinda overrated. Most of the restaurants are WAY too expensive. Some of them are good though.