Jackson is Back

[Chaplin]

one last question here - is there a difference between what you wrote and what I wrote above? Challenging for the title isn't the same thing as "title contenders"? Not trying to be argumentative - just curious because I don't want my comments to be construed that they will be in the NBA finals in two years - they'll just be contenders 9which I stick by - unfortunately).

Contenders usually means that they'll have a good chance of making the Finals in two years. If it doesn't, then by definition, the Atlanta Hawks are contenders.

 

[elindholm]

Baron Davis?

Oops, yes, that's a pretty good example. Okay, so I'll just have to say that it happens very rarely.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Contenders usually means that they'll have a good chance of making the Finals in two years. If it doesn't, then by definition, the Atlanta Hawks are contenders.

I know Chap - I just didn't understand the distinction he was making (or maybe not making ) between the two.

Again - I hope to be proven wrong - I am usually am on this board with my season predictions (see my predictions for the Suns v. Lakers this year).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Talk to some Knick fans. One New Yorker I know calls Ewing "The worst player ever who will make the Hall of Fame." He said the last Knick team he actually liked had Bernard King.

But I forgot about Shaq. Nonetheless, the point is, when you have those guys, you don't need much of a 5.

As for the Lakers, I'm not saying they're gonna be bad, I just think the West is deep enough, that if the player movement goes the wrong way for them, it's extremely plausible to miss the playoffs.

my entire fraternity were knicks fans during patrick's reign. none of them would have made the ridiculous statement that the new yorker you know made. patrick was a stud.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You are terribly wrong.

kobe bryant - superstar
odom - allstar
butler role player
eh . . .

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

JJ can bring you the same things Kobe can and he's a better shooter. Give JJ a couple of years and he can be that dominant, plus him and Qs contracts combined will still be way cheaper than Kobe's.

jj will never approach kobe's dominance. he's not the athlete and doesn't have the same aggressive streak. kobe is a cold-blooded assassin.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Anyone who says that there is no chance that Kobe will be traded is deluding themselves.

It's amazing how much interest in the Lakers has waned in this town in such a short amount of time. I'm sure Cheese and Ouchie have noticed it as well.

Will Kobe be traded? The odds are not good. But is it possible? Oh, absolutely.

no doubt. this city turns a deaf ear to that team almost immediately. crazy. it was easy to get tix to a lakers-suns game. twice. ridiculous.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Wrong. Kobe resented Shaq because Shaq alienated him from Day One. Turned the lockerroom against an 18 year old kid. Read Mad Game by Lazenby for this and more, and the hiring of Phil and backstory, etc.

Kobe resented Phil because Phillip (out of necessity) sided with Shaq. Phil was smart and knew that if Shaq was unhappy he wouldn't play. He catered to him and agreed with him v. Shaq. Phil admits as much in his book, knowing he needed to have Shaq firmly on his side to keep the team rolling. Kobe resented it.

In fact, the Kobe interview with Jim Gray where he FINALLY called the fat jack-a out was an offshoot of Phillip's coddling of Shaq. Phil also mentions it in his book. Kobe wasn't happy with Shaq and his media sniping and Phil wouldn't do anything about it. And this is the ONLY time Kobe ever mentioned anything about Shaq to the press....far more patience than I, especially with Shaq always snipping and snapping at Kobe. It is ridiculous the love Snaq gets and the hate Kobe gets when Kobe has carried himself with professionalism when the Shaq/Kobe fued has ever been discussed, save this one interview (which was dead-on).

Phillip is still smart, and he will give Kobe what he needs which is respect, and will not media assassinate him. He doesn't need to now that the big ***** is in Miami. The Kobe/Phil relationship will be just fine....and in fact will likely be very successful, regardless of what BSPN has to blather and huff about as they swing from Snaq's jock.

so phil's comments that kobe was "uncoachable" AFTER he retired meant he was trying to really say what exactly . . . .?? he didn't have to kiss shaq's ass then, did he? p-jax don't last his contract - that's my call.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

personally - i think any Suns fan that sees a realistic possibility of Kobe getting traded is really indulging in wishful thinking. The Lakers THE premiere franchise in the NBA - they now have THE Premiere coach again - one of the Premiere Superstars in the game and it's only a matter of time before they get a premiere big man to go with it - Wilt, Kareem, Shaq - Yao? Amare? Someone we haven't even thought of yet?

It makes Suns fans sleep easie knowing that both of the dynamic duo could be out of Laker-land - I know it would make me feel better down the road if Kobe was off the team as well.

My call? Lakers win 47-50 games next year - challenge for the title in 2007.

unfortunately i think cheese is right. somehow that team always gets what they want. it's the big market thing. they're not stupid enough to go isiah and strap themselves so that they can't go out and get a shaq. that's why i really need to see amare sign that extension this offseason.

the lakers are gonna somehow end up with greg oden. it'll be in the new cba or something.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well, the end of the book, and of course never quoted by the media (but Phil did address it in his PC yesterday) is that Phil and Kobe had a meeting, cleared the air and improved their relationship greatly at the end of the season (final two months). Now I agree, I would never want Phil coaching me after the crap he'd said about me, but again, I would have gone media sniping on Shaq back in 97. Kobe's a very patient dude and is addicted to winning. He'll do what he has to, and right now, that is embracing Phil.

Regarding other tradeable assets, we have future draft picks, expiring K's in Devean and I believe Slava, and Caron. We have the number 10 pick and need both a PG and a PF, the two areas this draft is strong in. There is a credible rumor out there that we may move Devean, a second rounder, next year's number 1 and I think Slava for Jonathan Bender and the #17 pick.

There's a lot to do, just because you are capped out doesn't mean you can't make moves.

no way indiana does that deal. what do they get outta it? devean sucks. slava sucks. a second rounder? and a first rounder that could be lower than the 17th pick? no way.

and i think you don't have any relief until after this season when grant comes off the books.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Contenders usually means that they'll have a good chance of making the Finals in two years. If it doesn't, then by definition, the Atlanta Hawks are contenders.

see, i'd say a contender this year would have included:

spurs
pistons
heat
suns
sonics
mavs

it's not inconceivable that the lakers could be in the top 6 or 7 teams in the league by 07 if a shaq comes calling again.

 

[D-Dogg]

no way indiana does that deal. what do they get outta it? devean sucks. slava sucks. a second rounder? and a first rounder that could be lower than the 17th pick? no way.

and i think you don't have any relief until after this season when grant comes off the books.

Cap relief. They have to sign some players longer, and they move out two guys and a pick they don't want because it's a guaranteed contract.

Grant doesn't come off for two more years. Not one.

 

[D-Dogg]

so phil's comments that kobe was "uncoachable" AFTER he retired meant he was trying to really say what exactly . . . .?? he didn't have to kiss shaq's ass then, did he? p-jax don't last his contract - that's my call.

Phil wrote that book as a diary of the season, he was trying to say how he felt about the season, at the time of the season. He wrote it how he wrote it. He also made clear to note that Kobe and he reconciled with about two months left in the season.

Have you read the book? It's actually a very good read. And contrary to the media portrayal, it's not just a Kobe bashfest. Phil and Kobe butted heads, but mostly due to the (damn near) 400 pound pink elephant sitting in the room that nobody would acknowledge. Some great stuff in there, especially about how much Tex Winter thinks of Shaq's game (not much, and Tex vows to one day expose Snaq as incredibly overrated...quote from the book.) Too bad all the media wants to report on is the Kobe sections.

Kobe/Phil will work fine together....

 

[JPlay]

jj will never approach kobe's dominance. he's not the athlete and doesn't have the same aggressive streak. kobe is a cold-blooded assassin.

By dominance you must mean ball-hogging skills and bad shot selection. Kobe jacks up way more shots than JJ and had one of the worst FG% in the league for guards.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

By dominance you must mean ball-hogging skills and bad shot selection. Kobe jacks up way more shots than JJ and had one of the worst FG% in the league for guards.

you have absolutely no credibility on anything basketball-related if you don't think kobe is a vastly superior and more dominant player than jj. and i love jj.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

By dominance you must mean ball-hogging skills and bad shot selection. Kobe jacks up way more shots than JJ and had one of the worst FG% in the league for guards.

When you are the #1 option on your team, and a top player in the game - defenses are focussed on you.

Maybe 5 times all season long the defense was especially worried about JJ. I think he could score as much as the primary option - but not at the FG% he has now.