James Harden Traded to Houston

[SunsTzu]

Harden was terrible in the playoffs I don't think the Thunder will miss him that much and Kevin Martin is a good fit for them and Lamb very talented. I doubt they will be worse this year and should be better down the road.

Harden had a poor finals, but was great leading up to that round.

 

[SunsTzu]

That is a pretty sweet pick. Rather than lotto protected its lotto guaranteed for OKC. Not sure what the terms are on the other 1st they received.

The other pick is top 20 protected from the Mavs. I honestly don't think the Raptors pick is all that good, they appear to be a borderline playoff team right now trending upward.

 

[Phrazbit]

No, not even close to correct.

Lakers "complete lack of depth" is a myth. Jamison gives them the scoring punch off the bench they have lacked for years.

They matched up fine with OKC last year, but couldn't score in the last five minutes of the games...you think with Nash and Howard that is an issue now? Sorry bro, you are the one in for a rude awakening.

They got massacred by OKC last year. When OKC put the petal down it was game over. If not for one of the most egregious officiated games in recent memory it would have been a sweep.

And if you think Antwan Jameson is still a quality player then you are in for an extreeeemely rude awakening. A 40% shooting interior player who cant defend a post. He is horrific.

 

[Phrazbit]

The Lakers have only four above-average players. True, some of them are far above average, and I think they are a very strong team, probably a contender. But they do indeed have a lack of depth. If you are a contender team and your 7th and 8th men would have a hard time cracking the rotation on a 50-win team, that is a lack of depth. (That said, I think that "depth" is overrated -- just look at how much "depth" last year's champion had.)

Depth matters, especially to a team as old as the Lakers. They dont have the luxury of a freak like LeBron who can fill any void on the roster and play 46 minutes effectively. Their stars are 3 older guys who need to have their minutes managed to stay effective and a center coming off a major back injury. Depth will be a major issue for the Lakers.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm wondering what the heck Houston is thinking? Lin, Harden, and Asik will total $45+ million in 2 years. That is hardly a solid core. I don't see them making the playoffs.

The Rockets were trying to make a big trade (maybe for Howard) before the draft by acquiring a number of draft picks but it didn't work out. Now I guess they decided to spend their assets on Harden hoping he will be their star.

 

[SunsTzu]

I'm wondering what the heck Houston is thinking? Lin, Harden, and Asik will total $45+ million in 2 years. That is hardly a solid core. I don't see them making the playoffs.

I just hope now the Suns don't panic and spend foolish. I also wonder if now they are reconsidering picking up Johnson's option?

Lin, Harden and Asik will only count a combined 32mil against the cap in '14-'15, so they still maintain flexibility. The Rockets still have tradeable assets and will have 20mil in cap space next year even after giving Harden the max.

Wes Johnson will have to play much better than he's shown for the Suns to even consider picking up his option, that trade was all about getting another pick.

 

[Folster]

From Coro's twitter:

The #Suns pursued a Harden trade with OKC on several occasions. "At the end of the day, there wasn't a deal that was workable," Babby said."

 

[slinslin]

Obvious, Houston had much better trade assets.

Lamb played great in the summer as did all their other rookies, Marshall did not.

We missed the playoffs we missed the playoffs 3 times in 4 years and our last 4 top 15 picks were Robin Lopez, Earl Clark, Markieff Morris and Kendall Marshall - 4 role players.

The 2013 FA class is horrid.. Josh Smith, Monta Ellis and a bunch of average restricted free agents like Evans and DeRozan..
We have to be in the Shabazz lottery and more importantly the Anrew Wiggins lottery in 2014.

 

[D-Dogg]

Are you forgetting Odem? You know, the 6th man of the year prior to Harden winning it. Yeah, that guy. Jamison is 36 years old, he can still score, but he is hardly going to bring what Odem did. After that, Lakers are very weak. If healthy I think the Lakers should be good, but OKC has not stepped that far back that they're conceding anything.

a) Odom wasn't on the team last year

b) Odom wasn't a "scorer", and instead more of a facilitator and rebounder who could score.

c) Jamison scoring last four years, 17.2, 18, 18.7, 22.2; Odom's scoring last four years, 6.6, 14.4, 10.8, 11.3

 

[D-Dogg]

They got massacred by OKC last year. When OKC put the petal down it was game over. If not for one of the most egregious officiated games in recent memory it would have been a sweep.

No. They didn't. They were actually two bad crunch times where they coughed up 7 point leads and 5 point leads with 2 minutes left away from going back home up 3-1 for game 5.

Again, Nash and Howard fix that issue.

 

[SunsTzu]

c) Jamison scoring last four years, 17.2, 18, 18.7, 22.2; Odom's scoring last four years, 6.6, 14.4, 10.8, 11.3

Jamison set career lows in FG% each of the last 2 years. Odom was a much better player when he was with the Lakers than anything the Lakers currently have on the bench.

 

[Phrazbit]

No. They didn't. They were actually two bad crunch times where they coughed up 7 point leads and 5 point leads with 2 minutes left away from going back home up 3-1 for game 5.

Again, Nash and Howard fix that issue.

Yes, they did. Superior teams constantly win games like that, they also win in blowouts. The Thunder did both. A 5 game series with 2 ugly blowouts and the one Laker win coming in an officiating disaster... at no point did that series feel competitive. As much as I love Steve, Westbrook eats him for lunch. The Lakers cannot match up with the Thunder depth and speed. To beat the Thunder you need to be able to slow them down on the perimeter and in transition... like Miami did. The Lakers additions dont fix that problem.

You need to pray the Lakers core can stay healthy, because if they cant, and odds are they wont, then you wont need to worry about the Thunder.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Gotta admit that I am impressed with Presti. He is quick, he is decisive. He tries to get a deal done and if he can't he gets assets quickly.

He doesn't dink around with the sun, moon, and stars.

 

[D-Dogg]

Yes, they did. Superior teams constantly win games like that, they also win in blowouts. The Thunder did both. A 5 game series with 2 ugly blowouts and the one Laker win coming in an officiating disaster... at no point did that series feel competitive. As much as I love Steve, Westbrook eats him for lunch. The Lakers cannot match up with the Thunder depth and speed. To beat the Thunder you need to be able to slow them down on the perimeter and in transition... like Miami did. The Lakers additions dont fix that problem.

You need to pray the Lakers core can stay healthy, because if they cant, and odds are they wont, then you wont need to worry about the Thunder.

*yawn*

And health is pretty much a given for any roster in the league.

 

[D-Dogg]

Jamison set career lows in FG% each of the last 2 years. Odom was a much better player when he was with the Lakers than anything the Lakers currently have on the bench.

All around player, yes, Odom is better. Jamison is a better and more aggressive scorer. And he was starting in Cleveland, on a very bad team. Here he will be coming off the bench, thus going more against second units and not starters and when he's with the starters, it's a MUCH better team so his FG% isn't much concern to me. He'll get better looks across the board.

The issue with the Lakers bench, even when Odom was coming off of it, is they never had any aggressive scorers, and it was stalled. That will not be an issue because of the style of player Jamison is.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

The Lakers have only four above-average players. True, some of them are far above average, and I think they are a very strong team, probably a contender. But they do indeed have a lack of depth. If you are a contender team and your 7th and 8th men would have a hard time cracking the rotation on a 50-win team, that is a lack of depth. (That said, I think that "depth" is overrated -- just look at how much "depth" last year's champion had.)

Don't agree on Miami they have some solid role players like Chalmers, Battier, M Miller, Haslem and J Anthony. All of which are either good defenders or solid scorers.

 

[Phrazbit]

*yawn*

And health is pretty much a given for any roster in the league.

Yeah, its a concern for all teams, but teams loaded with old players and a total lack of depth have to sweat it far more. The Lakers have a group of guys who they will need to give plenty of rest to in order to spare them from wearing down but they lack the depth to do so.

All around player, yes, Odom is better. Jamison is a better and more aggressive scorer. And he was starting in Cleveland, on a very bad team. Here he will be coming off the bench, thus going more against second units and not starters and when he's with the starters, it's a MUCH better team so his FG% isn't much concern to me. He'll get better looks across the board.

The issue with the Lakers bench, even when Odom was coming off of it, is they never had any aggressive scorers, and it was stalled. That will not be an issue because of the style of player Jamison is.

Jamison is terrible... I dont know when the last time you saw him play was but he is god awful. Being "aggressive" does not help when the dude only makes 40% of his shots. The only thing he does is "score" and he is a grotesquely inefficient scorer. If you let Odom jack up the amount of shots that Jamison consumes you would get a much better result. And a big part of Cleveland being terrible had to do with the washed up powerforward who couldnt shoot... but always shot and is a turnstile on defense.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Lin, Harden and Asik will only count a combined 32mil against the cap in '14-'15, so they still maintain flexibility. The Rockets still have tradeable assets and will have 20mil in cap space next year even after giving Harden the max.

Wes Johnson will have to play much better than he's shown for the Suns to even consider picking up his option, that trade was all about getting another pick.

In the '14-'15 season Lin and Asik alone will combine for 29.8m in salary alone and that doesn't include any possible bonuses that could also go against the cap. Then when Harden signs an extension it will depend largely on how it is constructed. If it is back loaded like Lin and Asik's contracts than it could easily be over 45m in cap space in the '14-'15 season for those 3 players alone.

 

[SunsTzu]

In the '14-'15 season Lin and Asik alone will combine for 29.8m in salary alone and that doesn't include any possible bonuses that could also go against the cap. Then when Harden signs an extension it will depend largely on how it is constructed. If it is back loaded like Lin and Asik's contracts than it could easily be over 45m in cap space in the '14-'15 season for those 3 players alone.

You are incorrect. First off Harden will be signing a max, it is predetermined how it will count against the cap. Secondly salary and salary cap are 2 different things. Lin and Asik will have a combined salary of about 30mil which is what the Rockets will actually pay them, but they will only count a combined 16.6mil towards the cap. This is due to the Gilbert Arenas provision for Early Bird players.

 

[Russ Smith]

Am I the only one who thinks this says a lot more about Harden than it does OKC? They just made the finals with an extremely young nucleus and he blows it up because he's offered 52 million and wants 55? I get they have short careers and all but you can't make up 3 million dollars by getting endorsements from being a finals contender every year in OKC as opposed to struggling to get out of the first round in Houston?

This is the part of pro sports that drives me nuts. Players and agents that let their egos make decisions. What I'm not getting the max they can give me, screw that.

 

[SunsTzu]

Am I the only one who thinks this says a lot more about Harden than it does OKC? They just made the finals with an extremely young nucleus and he blows it up because he's offered 52 million and wants 55? I get they have short careers and all but you can't make up 3 million dollars by getting endorsements from being a finals contender every year in OKC as opposed to struggling to get out of the first round in Houston?

This is the part of pro sports that drives me nuts. Players and agents that let their egos make decisions. What I'm not getting the max they can give me, screw that.

I don't get the argument against Harden at all, just as I didn't get it against JJ when he left the Suns. The Thunder were one of the most profitable teams last year and they're the ones to ditch that finals nucleus over a few million. And it's not just a few million to Harden since his future contact will be based on the one he's about to sign(just look what JJ got on his 2nd max).

Truth is the last labor dispute did little to stop the real problem with the NBA. Superstar player movement will be more restricted in the upcoming years, however the real issue with the league isn't the revenue split with players but the lack of equitable revenue sharing among owners.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't get the argument against Harden at all, just as I didn't get it against JJ when he left the Suns. The Thunder were one of the most profitable teams last year and they're the ones to ditch that finals nucleus over a few million. And it's not just a few million to Harden since his future contact will be based on the one he's about to sign(just look what JJ got on his 2nd max).

Truth is the last labor dispute did little to stop the real problem with the NBA. Superstar player movement will be more restricted in the upcoming years, however the real issue with the league isn't the revenue split with players but the lack of equitable revenue sharing among owners.

He's at best the 3rd best player on that team, he's NOT a max contract player. He's really good but should OKC give him a max deal just because his ego demands it?

He chose to leave a team that would have been a finals contender the next 4-5 years for a team that almost certainly won't be. But he's "the man" now and that's what he wants.

I get that they're all making money but there's a good reason OKC isn't interested in giving more than he's worth, if you keep doing that, you wind up struggling with the cap.

To be fair he was offered 4 years 55 and wanted 4 years 60 so 5 million not 3 but add in that Ibaka, Collison, Westbrook all recently signed contracts for less than market value. And Durant signed a deal without an opt out clause. The nucleus of that team decided they want to win and were willing to sacrifice a million here and there, IMO James Harden's ego decided he wanted more money and wanted to be a starter. It's silly he plays nearly 32 MPG anyways.

I just wish players cared more about winning.

 

[Bufalay]

He's at best the 3rd best player on that team, he's NOT a max contract player. He's really good but should OKC give him a max deal just because his ego demands it?

He chose to leave a team that would have been a finals contender the next 4-5 years for a team that almost certainly won't be. But he's "the man" now and that's what he wants.

I get that they're all making money but there's a good reason OKC isn't interested in giving more than he's worth, if you keep doing that, you wind up struggling with the cap.

To be fair he was offered 4 years 55 and wanted 4 years 60 so 5 million not 3 but add in that Ibaka, Collison, Westbrook all recently signed contracts for less than market value. And Durant signed a deal without an opt out clause. The nucleus of that team decided they want to win and were willing to sacrifice a million here and there, IMO James Harden's ego decided he wanted more money and wanted to be a starter. It's silly he plays nearly 32 MPG anyways.

I just wish players cared more about winning.

Like Harden, the Thunder made a decision that decreased their chances of winning a championship in favor of money.

 

[SunsTzu]

To be fair he was offered 4 years 55 and wanted 4 years 60 so 5 million not 3 but add in that Ibaka, Collison, Westbrook all recently signed contracts for less than market value. And Durant signed a deal without an opt out clause.

You might be able to argue Collison took less than he could have gotten on the open market but his contract was front loaded to account for the tax.

You'd have to think Ibaka is a max player to imply he took a paycut, I personally think over 12mil for Ibaka is on the high end of what he could have gotten on the open market.

Westbrook signed for the max the Thunder could pay and far more than any other team would have been able to offer him in free agency. Had Westbrook waited to sign his contract in the offseason he could have been eligible to the Derrick Rose provision which could have potentially paid him 5% more were he to be named to another ALL NBA team this upcoming season.

Harden was merely asking for what he'd have teams lining up to pay him if he were a FA.

 

[sunsfan88]

To be fair he was offered 4 years 55 and wanted 4 years 60 so 5 million not 3 but add in that Ibaka, Collison, Westbrook all recently signed contracts for less than market value.

Uhh what?

Collison got overpaid and Westbrook signed for a max contract....neither players would have gotten more on the market.